How did things used to work

[Az_]

Jesus came to offer hope of salvation to those who were willing to accept it (or so the story goes). After he left this world his apostles went out and began the work. But it was not until the 4th century that the Council of Nicea brought together various texts and works and created the New Testiment. So the question is. What was the measure by which people were saved prior to the creation of the Bible.

There seems to be tremendous pressure on various groups to adhere to the bible to the letter. And yet for nearly 400 years the teachings of Jesus spread. Jesus was not teaching people to adhere to a book. He was teaching people to live. And yet now many seem to base salvation on the contents of a book.

Are we to believe that before the advent of the New Testiment that no one was saved? Is the bible the only means to find your way to the kingdom of heaven? Why the intervening years between the message and setting it to page?

Just curious. Hope someone can explain.

[Botz]

My understanding is that to begin with the Gospel was internally distributed amongst the Jewish population directly by word of mouth and personal testimony from the Apostles and disciples (of which there were at least 100+)...their preaching which was endorsed from on high by signs and wonders...later different men wrote accounts of these things including the Gospel writers and letters from Paul,Peter,James and others were carefully copied and distributed amongst the brethren in the various groups springing up...including Jews and Gentiles who often had to break away from the local synagogue due to dissension and unbelief.

It is possible that there were more letters that contained historical information and further descriptions of the functioning early Church...but they have not survived...what we do have has somehow been miraculously preserved just as the Old Covenant writings were kept in tact and passed down.

I think a cursory glance at those letters that were left out of the entire New Testament will serve to demonstrate that although they contain many truths and a good recollection of local history...they also have elements that at the least are unconfirmed by the rest of Scripture and at the worst wander into the realms of fantasy and Jewish fable.

Are we to believe that before the advent of the New Testiment that no one was saved? Is the bible the only means to find your way to the kingdom of heaven? Why the intervening years between the message and setting it to page?

You presume that the Bible was the the means to be saved...actually it was faith in the L-rd Jesus Christ...that led to repentance...baptisms...and discipleship.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Anyway this is how I understand things ...hope it helps.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings AZ,

Jesus came to offer hope of salvation to those who were willing to accept it (or so the story goes). After he left this world his apostles went out and began the work. But it was not until the 4th century that the Council of Nicea brought together various texts and works and created the New Testiment. So the question is. What was the measure by which people were saved prior to the creation of the Bible.

There seems to be tremendous pressure on various groups to adhere to the bible to the letter. And yet for nearly 400 years the teachings of Jesus spread. Jesus was not teaching people to adhere to a book. He was teaching people to live. And yet now many seem to base salvation on the contents of a book.

Are we to believe that before the advent of the New Testiment that no one was saved? Is the bible the only means to find your way to the kingdom of heaven? Why the intervening years between the message and setting it to page?

As Botz has explained, it is NOT the Bible that SAVES, but "faith in Jesus Christ" as the Lord and God and our "great salvation".

The Bible contains two MAJOR "covenants". The Greek word "diatheke" is translated both as "covenant" and "testament". In the Old Testament we see that many "covenants" were made between God and various individuals and peoples, thus it is more appropriate to label both parts of the Bible as "testaments", instead of using the term "covenant", because it could cause a great deal of confusion.

To get a good foundation of the construction of the whole Bible, there are many on-line "histories of the construction of the Bible", and I by no means can give you an indepth history of it. However, as a synopsis, I can give a brief description, even as Botz has done.

The first 5 books of the Bible, which in the Hebrew is the "Torah", is attested to the writings of Moses. The remainder of the OT in the Hebrew are broken down into a few categories such as the "minor and major prophets", the "poetry books" such as Eccleasiasties, Psalms, Proverbs and Song of Solomon There is a couple of other categories I can't remember. Anyway the sum of all of them in the Hebrew is called the "Tenakh". The Hebrews and later the Jews were very careful to collect each of these books or "writings" and copy them word for word so that they would be preserved for all time for their posterity. A scribe had several rules to follow when copying these "writings", but mainly, say if he got to the very last "jot or tittle" and made a mistake, he would have to destroy the whole thing and start over. So the OT is very accurate, although some think that a few errors did creep in, but nothing of any major significance that would alter the "thought" or the "words of God", as they were given by the various writers.

The New Testament was prepared very much in the same way. Jesus chose 12 disciples, one of whom betrayed him, and subsequently died, and was later replaced by the 11 Apostles by Stephen, when then died, and God chose Paul to be the "Apostle to the Gentiles".

Initially the "Words of Jesus Christ" were recalled and spoken to many and brought many into the Kingdom of God. These Apostles were led by God then to begin writing down what we have in the NT. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote of their experiences under the tutelage of Jesus, and quoted much of what Jesus taught. You have to understand that this was done under the unction of the Holy Spirit. When Paul was chosen by Jesus and subsequently learned at His feet in the desert for several years, he produced most of the NT Epistles, from Romans to Hebrews. Eventually most all the churches that were estabished in the Gentile kingdoms obtained a copy of all the letters Paul wrote because they contained a wealth of information pertaining to all types of situations.

The remainder of the books were written by different authors and the reason for their inclusion is because of their "inspired" material, that built upon the same foundation of the Scripture accounts as was given to the Apostles.

During that time there were MANY "false prophets", who produced writings that departed from the Gospel which Paul and Jesus taught. This is why a council had to come together to determine which writings were of God and which were of the "false prophets". It takes a great deal of familiarity with the "inspired" writings in order to determine the fakery which was often found.

The oldest known scrap of a manuscript we have of the NT, dates back to about 46 A.D. and was written in Greek. It has a name but I can't remember what it is. However, because there were SO MANY validated copies made of ALL the books of the Bible and were sent to every church in the then known world, we have a plethora of accurate manuscripts available that from them we have derived a very accurate translation into what we know as the Bible.

The purpose of the Bible is that it accurately conveys the "Gospel of Jesus Christ" which is God's POWER unto salvation. (Romans 1:16) The OT points to Jesus as the Messiah, and the NT reveals Him. It is written within the Bible that it is also to be used to validate someone ministry, to tell whether or not it is FALSE or one that is anointed of God.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Leonard]

You seem a little confused. The Bible never saved ANYBODY. Jesus Christ saves.

Prior to the adoption of our current canon, several competing proposals were out there, a very very few containing books which were not included in the canon adopted at Nicea, most shorter, leaving out certain books we use today.

[other one]

Then: Well someone would go to a town and tell the story of the gospel,,,, then enough people would get saved and a church would be formed. Those people would get it all fouled up and Paul would have to sent a letter to streighten them out...... Then John finds out how it will all end and spreads it out.....

Now: The gospel was put in the form of the gospel books so we can learn about it by ourselves. Then the story of what the apostles did, followed up by a bunch of Pauls letters to straighten the now churches out (we still need the direction). Then John tells us how it will all end.

That's sort of the Red Neck version of Now and Then....