Marriage: A covenant or a contract?

[GoldenEagle]

ok, so please clarify. is the desertion thing biblically founded? i don't remember reading that anywhere at all.

I'm guessing here...but he is probably referring to the principle in 1 Corinthians 7:12-16

But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

This speaks specifically to an unbeliever leaving a believer.

As far as the matter of a (believing) husband or wife walking out on their (believing) spouse, that is to say abandonment...that is a matter of some debate.

Debate yes. But don't forget the passage right before 1 Corinthians 7:12-16. Also keep in mind that 1 Cor. 7:12-16 Paul is clearly saying this as advice from Paul the Christian... Or what do you think?

1 Cor. 7:10-11

¹⁰ Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. ¹¹ But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

[Mcgyver]

ok, so please clarify. is the desertion thing biblically founded? i don't remember reading that anywhere at all.

I'm guessing here...but he is probably referring to the principle in 1 Corinthians 7:12-16

But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

This speaks specifically to an unbeliever leaving a believer.

As far as the matter of a (believing) husband or wife walking out on their (believing) spouse, that is to say abandonment...that is a matter of some debate.

Debate yes. But don't forget the passage right before 1 Corinthians 7:12-16. Also keep in mind that 1 Cor. 7:12-16 Paul is clearly saying this as advice from Paul the Christian... Or what do you think?

1 Cor. 7:10-11

¹⁰ Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. ¹¹ But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

Agreed...and I certainly wasn't skirting the issue...

So many times though, abandonment by one or the other results in or is the product of an adulterous relationship, thus my comment about subject to debate.

If we accept that Paul is indeed speaking by the leading of the Holy Spirit, then even though he doesn't say "thus saith the Lord" I think that we must accept that this is more than merely one man's opinion. That is to say, that Paul in giving this advice (But to the rest I, not the Lord, say:) is in line with the Holy Spirit...otherwise we have a serious conundrum with the writings of Paul!

[His Ambassador]

ok, so please clarify. is the desertion thing biblically founded? i don't remember reading that anywhere at all.

1Cor. 7:15

[GoldenEagle]

ok, so please clarify. is the desertion thing biblically founded? i don't remember reading that anywhere at all.

I'm guessing here...but he is probably referring to the principle in 1 Corinthians 7:12-16

But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

This speaks specifically to an unbeliever leaving a believer.

As far as the matter of a (believing) husband or wife walking out on their (believing) spouse, that is to say abandonment...that is a matter of some debate.

Debate yes. But don't forget the passage right before 1 Corinthians 7:12-16. Also keep in mind that 1 Cor. 7:12-16 Paul is clearly saying this as advice from Paul the Christian... Or what do you think?

1 Cor. 7:10-11

¹⁰ Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. ¹¹ But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

Agreed...and I certainly wasn't skirting the issue...

So many times though, abandonment by one or the other results in or is the product of an adulterous relationship, thus my comment about subject to debate.

If we accept that Paul is indeed speaking by the leading of the Holy Spirit, then even though he doesn't say "thus saith the Lord" I think that we must accept that this is more than merely one man's opinion. That is to say, that Paul in giving this advice (But to the rest I, not the Lord, say:) is in line with the Holy Spirit...otherwise we have a serious conundrum with the writings of Paul!

Excellent point and I agree in bold. All God's Word is inspired. Just thought I'd put the perspective out there.

2 Tim. 3:16-17

¹⁶ All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, ¹⁷ that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

ok, so please clarify. is the desertion thing biblically founded? i don't remember reading that anywhere at all.

1Cor. 7:15

Only desertion if the unbeliever wants out of the marriage right? Or are you saying this passage refer to if a Christian (Believer) wants out (a divorce) as well...

[*Zion*]

ok, so please clarify. is the desertion thing biblically founded? i don't remember reading that anywhere at all.

I'm guessing here...but he is probably referring to the principle in 1 Corinthians 7:12-16

But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

This speaks specifically to an unbeliever leaving a believer.

As far as the matter of a (believing) husband or wife walking out on their (believing) spouse, that is to say abandonment...that is a matter of some debate.

Debate yes. But don't forget the passage right before 1 Corinthians 7:12-16. Also keep in mind that 1 Cor. 7:12-16 Paul is clearly saying this as advice from Paul the Christian... Or what do you think?

1 Cor. 7:10-11

¹⁰ Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. ¹¹ But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

Agreed...and I certainly wasn't skirting the issue...

So many times though, abandonment by one or the other results in or is the product of an adulterous relationship, thus my comment about subject to debate.

If we accept that Paul is indeed speaking by the leading of the Holy Spirit, then even though he doesn't say "thus saith the Lord" I think that we must accept that this is more than merely one man's opinion. That is to say, that Paul in giving this advice (But to the rest I, not the Lord, say:) is in line with the Holy Spirit...otherwise we have a serious conundrum with the writings of Paul!

Thanks McGuyver, you nailed it for me the first time around. I think the thing with two believing spouses is that God expects them to take marriage as seriously as He takes it, and so to have love and commitment enough for each other in the first place to be able to enter into it of their own desire and freewill. Otherwise, why do it? Therefore there would be no reason to divorce or desert or abandon. Seems fair and simple enough to me. It's all in the three-strand cord of God, husband and wife. With Christ, all things are possible

[His Ambassador]

ok, so please clarify. is the desertion thing biblically founded? i don't remember reading that anywhere at all.

1Cor. 7:15

Only desertion if the unbeliever wants out of the marriage right? Or are you saying this passage refer to if a Christian (Believer) wants out (a divorce) as well...

That verse refers specifically to a non-believer.

[AlexanderJ]

1 Corinthians 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

If the unbelieving spouse chooses to leave the believing spouse, he is free to do so and the believing spouse is not in bondage to the unbelieving spouse any more.

[gdemoss]

This is an interesting discussion. My wife has been gone for a little over a month now. She claims to be a believer and even thinks she is right with God, though she abandoned her position in our marriage and stole off with our children. She is banking on unlimited grace and that her works mean nothing considering salvation. Believes she can do what she will and be OK. The doctrine of OSAS allowed her to choose to leave and also allows her to continue to keep me from seeing my children regularly. Last time she made me wait a week to get 3 hours with one of my two children and about 45 minutes with the other. There is a reason that heresy is a work of the flesh as it allows the one who believes it to live in the flesh without fear of consequence.

When a man or woman has a hard heart, all they need to proceed to act upon the hardness of that heart is a conscience searing heretical doctrine that will give them 'liberty' to act at will without regard to what walking in the Spirit truly calls for. And we know that there is no condemnation to those who walk not after the flesh but the Spirit. I intercede for my wife daily as I am moved in my spirit to do so.

The church she goes to preaches that one does not need to worry about the sin they do this week as God has it all taken care of. They preach that having an unforgiving heart will only affect your relationship with God in this life but has no bearing on your eternal destiny. That as long as you believe Jesus died for you, you can continue to hold a grudge against anyone you want for as long as you want, even go to the grave with it and it does not matter.

To God, marriage is serious business. What God has joined together let not man put asunder.

[*Zion*]

This is an interesting discussion. My wife has been gone for a little over a month now. She claims to be a believer and even thinks she is right with God, though she abandoned her position in our marriage and stole off with our children. She is banking on unlimited grace and that her works mean nothing considering salvation. Believes she can do what she will and be OK. The doctrine of OSAS allowed her to choose to leave and also allows her to continue to keep me from seeing my children regularly. Last time she made me wait a week to get 3 hours with one of my two children and about 45 minutes with the other. There is a reason that heresy is a work of the flesh as it allows the one who believes it to live in the flesh without fear of consequence.

When a man or woman has a hard heart, all they need to proceed to act upon the hardness of that heart is a conscience searing heretical doctrine that will give them 'liberty' to act at will without regard to what walking in the Spirit truly calls for. And we know that there is no condemnation to those who walk not after the flesh but the Spirit. I intercede for my wife daily as I am moved in my spirit to do so.

The church she goes to preaches that one does not need to worry about the sin they do this week as God has it all taken care of. They preach that having an unforgiving heart will only affect your relationship with God in this life but has no bearing on your eternal destiny. That as long as you believe Jesus died for you, you can continue to hold a grudge against anyone you want for as long as you want, even go to the grave with it and it does not matter.

To God, marriage is serious business. What God has joined together let not man put asunder.

I'm sorry to hear that, gdemoss; i don't think i could guess what it would be like if my husband did that to me. well done for continuing to pray for her! i pray God gives you a special blessing form His storehouse. have you ever challenged her about her faith, or confronted her on why she has allowed herself to be deceived?