How to understand the following scripture?

[other one]

Well, I'm not sure that we need to go through that whole discussion again, but Jesus told us that he wanted us to be one also...... the Father in He, and He in us..... so I guess that makes me God too.....

So, you actually think that you are God? Wasn't this the very reason Adam and Eve committed a sin....the sin of pride?

Genesis 3:4-5 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

The serpent tricked the woman. She wanted to be God...knowing good and evil. In other words, she wanted to make the decisions that God made in determining what was good and evil. Adam and Eve is NOT God because they are not the ones who determines what is good and evil. Only God makes that decision. So, when God told Adam and Eve that eating the fruit from THAT particular tree is bad and will bring death....it was only God who made that determination. Man had nothing to do with that decision. On the other hand, Adam and Eve were already ONE with God before they sinned.

They are one in purpose and in total agreement, but three separate entities, and all three are to be worshiped.

And don't forget that after Jesus had been raised from the dead and was speaking to Mary he called the Father "His God".

It doesn't appear to me that you really understand that oneness that scripture speaks of.

The Father and the Son are not separate and they were never separate. They are one but also distinct from each other. There is no separation or division in the Holy Trinity. Christ was 100% human and 100% God. It was the 100% human in Him that called the Father "His God" despite that Christ is God. And it was the 100% human in Him that prayed to God. I am pretty sure that I understand oneness. I understand it enough that I would never say that I am God.

No I'm saying that if I take your definition of the oneness you are saying that I'm god. Jesus prayed that I could be one with him and he one with the father and I am one with him, but I'm not God. How is it that the Father is Jesus's God even after his resurrection.

[Guest Bazz50]

So only 4 pages later I found myself asking, what was the original topic? Oh yeah, what will we be when we are with him? How to interpret the scripture pertaining to being like angels...John was pretty clear on the subject as he said we know not what we shall be but that we shall be like him for we shall see him as he is. So whatever Jesus is so will we be and it will be like the angels already are, so it must be safe to say that in certain ways he was made like the angels himself. It appears that scripture says he left off being in the form of God and did not return to that form so I don't believe that I will ever be in the form of God but the form that Jesus now possesses, which appears to be a glorified body that has been raised incorruptible and without sin that is not limited by natural laws. I fully expect there to be an order of authority that begins with Jesus being head of all and descends from there, angels being below this newly created form that is neither God nor man but above angels for Gods intended purpose. I don't anticipate having any trouble following whatever order of authority is established but being fully capable of staying on course without jealousy, envy or emulation interfering and destroying the joy that I will possess from simply knowing that I was chosen to take part in Gods perfected creation.

God is awesome and we have a lot to look forward too. I'd rather be least in the Kingdom of God than King in the pit of Hell.

Gary

I would not agree that Jesus is like an angle......angles are limited in power and they do not have eternal life and they are only servants they are not sons of God the same way like Jesus.....they are only immortal. But I agree with you that we will be like Jesus.....Jesus possess eternal life and we have been given eternal life and when one receives the Spirit of God they are born of God. An angels will always be servants of God and be in subjection to man and will never share ruler ship with God.

I do the math and it comes out the same every time.

Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

We will be as the angels of God in heaven.

Jesus is speaking in terms of marriage......angels do not get married and neither will we......that was the subject.

1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

We will be like him for we shall see him as he is.

How can we be as the angels of God in heaven and like Jesus and Jesus not be as they are?

Gary

Well, if you understand what the subject was about you will know why. If you read the entire thought you would see that they wanted to entrap Jesus because the ones that asked Him the question did not believe in the resurrection.

Matthew 22:23-28 (NASB77)

²³ On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Him and questioned Him,

²⁴ saying, "Teacher, Moses said, 'IF A MAN DIES, HAVING NO CHILDREN, HIS BROTHER AS NEXT OF KIN SHALL MARRY HIS WIFE, AND RAISE UP AN OFFSPRING TO HIS BROTHER.'

²⁵ "Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no offspring left his wife to his brother;

²⁶ so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh.

²⁷ "And last of all, the woman died.

²⁸ "In the resurrection therefore whose wife of the seven shall she be? For they all had her."

They did not ask Jesus what will we be in the resurrection. If that was the question then the answer would be a different one.

Agreed, the context and subject matter was pertaining to marriage. And Jesus was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, but resurrected unto new life in a form that is higher than the angels, where death has no more dominion. I guess my tendency is to lean toward the thought that we will be more like angels than the simple context of marriage. Especially considering the abilities Jesus had in his glorified body that are shared by angels through out scripture. I understand why you would take a position that this particular scripture reference needs to be seen in the simple light of marriage alone though.

Jesus is our elder brother and creator of every thing and He refer to us as brothers and God calls us sons but not by creation but by being born of the Holy spirit.....no angel has any hope of such nor will they ever hope to share in God's glory as we will....man was made to be one with God just as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one....but angels will always be subject to man even though at this point in time we are a little lower than them, but when we are glorified they will be inferior to us.

Thanks for the provocation to study as I took the liberty of looking into the use of the terms 'sons of God' in the OT because this was another reason I leaned toward the belief that we would simply become as the angels are, due to the terms being applied to both Jesus and the angels of heaven. Jesus being the only true begotten son of God and all others Adam and angels being created beings who carried the term 'son of God' as a label. I had always taken it to mean that we are all basically the same but created in different 'forms'. The Greek Septuagint has always given me reason to pause as the writers of the New Testament quoted from it and therefore validated its translation in my eyes. They were able to do things that I cannot. The exact same phrase in Gen 6:2 for sons of God in Job 1:6 is translated different by Septuagint translators, once again giving me second thoughts about previously held convictions as to the meaning of the texts. They translate the Job texts 'angels of God' but the Genesis text 'sons of God'. Very interesting revelation to say the least.

Angels are only sons of God in the sense they God created them but they are not sons of God in terms of being born of God just as Jesus was and we, who are born of the Holy Spirit. A human being is the full expression of God but at this point in time it does not seem that way. But Jesus is the first human being to have attain glory whom is far above any angel and so will we be too.

I'd have to say that, for now, I would have to concede that I simply do not know exactly what we shall be or what the order of authority will be in the resurrection. I see that it is possible that we are like the angels of God or possibly something somewhat different. Though John shared that it isn't known yet what we shall be, there is no definitive text that I know of that explain exactly what angels are but rather texts that explain a variation within the kind. Either way I will be happy not being human any longer, no matter where in the chain of authority I am placed. Will just be glad to be there.

Gary

All you need to do is look at Jesus because our identity is entwined in Him…..He is our pioneer that has attained what we will also attained when He returns. Angels don’t inherit kingdoms only the children of kings do and we are God’s children and it is He in whom's imgage man was made.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Bazz50

[7angel]

I'm amazed at how they have destroyed the OP

How do you think come to a conclusion?

Good question 7angel. Did you see my private message?

Yes, and I sent my answer

[other one]

No I'm saying that if I take your definition of the oneness you are saying that I'm god. Jesus prayed that I could be one with him and he one with the father and I am one with him, but I'm not God. How is it that the Father is Jesus's God even after his resurrection.

Under this thread, I never said that I am God or that we are God. YOU were the one who posted the following below:

Well, I'm not sure that we need to go through that whole discussion again, but Jesus told us that he wanted us to be one also...... the Father in He, and He in us..... so I guess that makes me God too.....

You said that the Father, Jesus and the Spirit are one, and that they are one God..... Well I'm one with them also and by your defination that makes me god too.

I'm using that to show you that there is much more to that word Trinity than meets the eye, and it always falls apart in the details to some mystical thing that Humans just can't understand.

Well I do understand. I don't think most people understand what the Greek and Hebrew words translated "god" means.

So just let me quote scripture.

1 Cor 8:4-6

5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but one God , the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

NASB

John 20:17-18

"Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren, and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

NASB

That word God has many different connotations, but it is the same word.

[Guest Bazz50]

Well, I'm not sure that we need to go through that whole discussion again, but Jesus told us that he wanted us to be one also...... the Father in He, and He in us..... so I guess that makes me God too.....

So, you actually think that you are God? Wasn't this the very reason Adam and Eve committed a sin....the sin of pride?

Genesis 3:4-5 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

The serpent tricked the woman. She wanted to be God...knowing good and evil. In other words, she wanted to make the decisions that God made in determining what was good and evil. Adam and Eve is NOT God because they are not the ones who determines what is good and evil. Only God makes that decision. So, when God told Adam and Eve that eating the fruit from THAT particular tree is bad and will bring death....it was only God who made that determination. Man had nothing to do with that decision. On the other hand, Adam and Eve were already ONE with God before they sinned.

They are one in purpose and in total agreement, but three separate entities, and all three are to be worshiped.

And don't forget that after Jesus had been raised from the dead and was speaking to Mary he called the Father "His God".

It doesn't appear to me that you really understand that oneness that scripture speaks of.

The Father and the Son are not separate and they were never separate. They are one but also distinct from each other. There is no separation or division in the Holy Trinity. Christ was 100% human and 100% God. It was the 100% human in Him that called the Father "His God" despite that Christ is God. And it was the 100% human in Him that prayed to God. I am pretty sure that I understand oneness. I understand it enough that I would never say that I am God. Afterall, husband and wife are also one....but do you ever call the wife the "husband" and "head of the house?"

I agree with you somewhat except to say that Jesus being human is not in the past He is still human as He was before except that He now has glorified immortal body. The union between a wife and a husband is a physical union but the oneness between Jesus, the Father and Holy Spirit is literally one......they are not separate beings though they are distinct as you said. It’s the same oneness of man and God.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Bazz50

[7angel]

Luke 20

27Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him,

28 Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man's brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

29 There were therefore seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and died without children.

30 And the second took her to wife, and he died childless.

31 And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died.

32 Last of all the woman died also.

33 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife.

34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:

35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

Therefore, there will be no male nor female, sex will no longer

36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Angels are spirit, without a body of flesh,- we also when resurrected, we are children of God, we can not die

37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

God is not a God of dead, what would be the point? and that the entire universe would not sense without the children of God,

38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him..

[other one]

Heb 13:1-3

13:1 Let love of the brethren continue. 2 Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers , for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.

NASB

[Guest Bazz50]

I never said that Jesus being human is not in the past.

Well, you did say Jesus was 100% human which is past tense.....that's the reason why I said what I said to you.

The bond between husband and wife is both physical and spiritual.

Not really, because if it was a spiritual union whatever one would say or do to one they other would immediately know about…..the spirit of the husband or wife is not literally joined with each other…..that’s the only way they would be one spiritually. That is how the Son, the Father and the Holy Spirit are one…..same spirit only that they are distinct.

This bond of marriage is often compared between Christ and His Bride, the Church.

In terms of intimacy…..the marriage between a man and a woman is what God use in order for us to be able to understand the kind of intimacy between Jesus and His Church……but its far more than that.....God used things that human beings can relate to but the reality of what He is telling us in His word is far greater than we can imagine at this point in time.

This I believe that we are one with God, but again......that does not make us God. Before they sinned, Adam and Eve were one with God.....but they were not God.

The term that I was use is a god or like God.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Bazz50

[Guest Bazz50]

Luke 20

27Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him,

28 Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man's brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

29 There were therefore seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and died without children.

30 And the second took her to wife, and he died childless.

31 And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died.

32 Last of all the woman died also.

33 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife.

34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:

35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

Therefore, there will be no male nor female, sex will no longer

36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Angels are spirit, without a body of flesh,- we also when resurrected, we are children of God, we can not die

37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

God is not a God of dead, what would be the point? and that the entire universe would not sense without the children of God,

38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him..

Yes, but that does not mean we will be spirit.......the body that we will have will be spiritual body. A spiritual body is not a spirit body. For example, the Bible is a spiritual book but it is still physical. In fact, saying spirit body makes just as much sense as saying liquid ice......by definition spirit means without body. We will be able to eat and drink just as we do now, the only thing is that we will not need to do those things in order to live. ....we will not need air, food, water or be subjected to the physical laws but we will still be human....glorified human beings without limit.....nothing will be impossible for us. Jesus told His disciples that He would not drink of the fruit of the vine until He drink it a new in the kingdom with them. God wants to experience His creation through us.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Bazz50

[Guest Bazz50]

Went from what to mans Trinity doctrine? How does things go a whole new directions from the OP...

Gary:

You are right Gary, we are "As" the Angels as Jesus is "As" the angels.... AS though as in comparison. Angels have arms, legs, hands feet. So do we, so do God and the Son. That is where the difference stops though. Jesus comparisons was about body make up.... and how Eternal spirits which we are as well as the angels conduct things in that realm.

Like Cats have legs, and dogs have legs, both are animals, both can be pets, but one is a dog, and one is a cat.

Oneness Doctrine and consistent interpenetration of scriptures....... Trinity Doctrine can't stay consistent in it's oneness without ignoring other scriptures and being consistent.

If Trinity Doctrine stays consistent in it's understanding of what one is.... That makes us God the Father in many scriptures also... I don't know about you all, but I am not God the father. You can all, Thank the Lord for that.

This has been a Major Theology problem the Trinity Doctrine has had for many, many years, and has already been talked about by both camps. Those in the Trinity belief do admit it is problematic. The serious ones that love the word of God do. Still, people will believe what they want. As long as Jesus is Lord to them... they will be with the rest of us.

Jesus created everything!!!

Only the KJV says that by miss-translating one Greek Word. The KJV then goes and misses a scripture contradicting itself. I still think it's the best bible though, by far......

Jesus Is Lord.

Angels are spirit and spirit does not have a body.