I. Legalism: Defined

[lesjude]

The length of a woman's hair, skirts or pants, makeup, etc are real issues but distractions from what Jesus says are the legalisms that prevent His disciples from having a mature Biblical relationship with Him. The Bible makes a sharp distinction between a child of God by the new birth, and a mature son/daughter. These legalisms prevent the child from maturing.

Thanks for your thoughts lesjude. Sorry the thread got a little off track… Legalism to me seems to focus more on fear than grace. I agree the length of a woman’s hair, skirts, pants, makeup are distractions from having further deeper fellowship with God.

God is truly more concerned about our attitude (loving or selfish? Mercy not sacrifice?) towards others. Not that God isn’t interested in modesty, etc. Would you agree?

You are welcome. I agree.

The the root of sin is not moral or immoral behavior. Many sinners do have moral behavior but are sinners still. The essence of sin is insisting on the right to self i.e. to control our own lives. This can be glossed over with a veneer of "religiousity" but Jesus gives no assurance of salvation to those who continue to live doing what is right in their own sight. This applies to both legalists, and those that refuse Holy Spirit training in the core principles of relationship to God and all people (Matthew 5, 6, and 7) who Jesus calls "lawless".

It is interesting that there are 2 words for child in the Greek. Texton which stresses the idea of birth or the "born again" believer and huios which emphasizes the dignity of the relationship and likeness of character between the parent and the son or daughter.

Here is an example:

Matthew 5:9

New King James Version (NKJV)

⁹ Blessed are the peacemakers,

For they shall be called sons of God. Huios

In other words not just children by birth but mature sons.

Again:

Matthew 5:43-48

New King James Version (NKJV)

Love Your Enemies

⁴³ “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor^[a] and hate your enemy.’ ⁴⁴ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,^[b]45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. ⁴⁶ For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? ⁴⁷ And if you greet your brethren^[c] only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors^[d] do so? ⁴⁸ Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Sons (huios) above is again speaking of the likeness between the Father and His perfect, meaning mature, sons/daughters. Also note that it says God is already their father meaning they are His children by birth, but will desire to love their enemies and be like their Father because they are His born again children, not to be saved or stay saved.

My point about legalism is that the doctrines and traditions of men have perverted Matthew 5:43-48 as well as the rest of Matthew 5, 6 and 7 preventing children from becoming mature sons.

Further they have taken the clear command of Jesus to all disciples in Luke 24:49 and Acts 1:8 concerning the Acts 2:4 experiernce and made it of no effect, (Matthew 15:7-9 legalism), by their teachings that tongues are not for today, this experience is optional, tongues are of the devil, it is not a separate experience, etc. Without this power of the indwelling Holy Spirit it is very difficult to rightly apply or even live the principles of Matthew 5, 6, and 7. As a result children are severely handicapped in becoming mature sons and daughters.

Another apparent result is that there is little or no agreement on what Matthew 5, 6 and 7 mean or how to apply these principles. That is one function of the gift of the Holy Spirit. Does anyone wonder why there is very little agreement on the elementary principles of the faith mentioned in Hebrews 6:1-3? Mostly for the same reason.

Here are some qualities of sons as opposed to children:

They are friends, the word is huios, of Jesus: Luke 5:34.

They act consistently in Hebrews 11 faith as Abraham did: Galations 3:7

Manifest positive character: Acts 4:36 and submit to Holy Spirit training in it: Romans 5:1-5

Live a separated life from the world: 2 Corinthians 6:17-18 through 7:1

Are transparent in their dealings with others: Luke 16:8

By faith in the Light (Jesus/His word) are becoming sons: John 12:36

Recognize and recieve and other sons: Luke 10:6

Sons are submitting not resisting the process: Hebrews 2:10 and Hebrews 12:7-8.

One of the sources and roots of legalism is trying to develop and live the maturity mentioined above without the Acts 2:4 experience. The result is lawlessness becuse people often just give up.

[Sevenseas]

There is a fine line between legalism and not legalism, we must obey, is that legalism?

No.

Consult Galatians. Paul addressed the problem through the entire letter.

[soldier2]

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

I dont know where people get the idea that God's law is abolished of their is something wrong with it. The law is Holy, Just and Good, and it is the standard of God's judgement.

God's Law was there before sin and it will be there after sin and sinners are destroyed because God is a God or order.

Edited November 3, 2012 by soldier2

[Farmgal]

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

I dont know where people get the idea that God's law is abolished of their is something wrong with it. The law is Holy, Just and Good, and it is the standard of God's judgement.

God's Law was there before sin and it will be there after sin and sinners are destroyed because God is a God or order.

True!!

Our belief in Christ does not entitle us to an "anything goes" lifestyle, it's one of the problems of Christianity today.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Farmgal

[Farmgal]

There is a fine line between legalism and not legalism, we must obey, is that legalism?

No.

Consult Galatians. Paul addressed the problem through the entire letter.

Are you saying it's ok for a person to disobey?

Is obedience a form of legalism - or not?

Edited November 3, 2012 by Farmgal

[soldier2]

Oh yes thats what Im classified as.

I am an Adventist and the church is classified as a cult. But what can I say? Jesus was sinless and the called Him belzeebub.

[Farmgal]

Oh yes thats what Im classified as.

I am an Adventist and the church is classified as a cult. But what can I say? Jesus was sinless and the called Him belzeebub.

Interesting, I've never heard of an adventist called anything but a believer. The law is perfectly filled in us - except Jesus is our Sabbath.

Bless you.

[Sevenseas]

There is a fine line between legalism and not legalism, we must obey, is that legalism?

No.

Consult Galatians. Paul addressed the problem through the entire letter.

Are you saying it's ok for a person to disobey?

Is obedience a form of legalism - or not?

Galatians

That's not what I said. That is your question but that is not what I said

I said Paul addressed the problem of legalism in the letter to the Galatians

[GoldenEagle]

There is a fine line between legalism and not legalism, we must obey, is that legalism?

No.

Consult Galatians. Paul addressed the problem through the entire letter.

Are you saying it's ok for a person to disobey?

Is obedience a form of legalism - or not?

What do you mean by these two questions?

We are called to obedience.

If we love God we'll keep His commandments. Not out of duty but out of love!

John 14:15

If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

We are to be obedient to God and not sin.

Rom. 6:16

Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?

A relationship with God isn't about head knowledge but we're to carry out God's Word.

James 1:22

But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

Legalism is taking what is not in Scripture (women must wear pants to be saved or even to be "modest") and saying that all who claim Christ must do that particular things to be considered "holy" or "godly." There is a difference would you agree?

Salvation is through faith and not of our own doing - it is a gift of God!

Eph. 2:8

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

We cannot earn salvation through our works for righteousness.

Titus 3:5

He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

The law doesn't justify us before God.

Rom. 10:4

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Thoughts?

[Sevenseas]

Obedience is not legalism. Making your own set of rules that you HAVE to obey and telling others to do the same is legalism

Observing the Law as a way to salvation is not the gospel. The law was put in place to point to Jesus Christ

There are some really great posts on the first 2 pages that pretty much cover this tired topic

I just cannot fathom why people don't do a study on Galatians...Paul addresses the topic in scripture so

that pretty much covers the debate or the issue or the grievance or the log or whatever

I hope no one decides I need to word things differently because this is not how they personally would have worded things

G A L A T I A N S