I. Legalism: Defined

[Guest ninhao]

Basically I agree in this passage in Isaiah the people were engaging in idolatry. They were seeking after false gods by sacrificing in gardens and burning incense to the same. (vs. 3) The Israelites thought they could save themselves with a formula when God was offering them a relationship with Him. Does this not apply to us as Christians today? The same is true today for “super” Christians who believe that God’s grace can be earned or that some formula will make them holier than other Christians.

I respectfully disagree that Mr. Stedman is using this passage incorrectly.

God bless,

GE

GE I don't see this indication in the chapter at all because the Israelites were wandering from God by breaking commands and sinning by eating pig etc and possible burning incense to other gods.

Isa 65:3-4 NIV a people who continually provoke me to my very face, offering sacrifices in gardens and burning incense on altars of brick; (4) who sit among the graves and spend their nights keeping secret vigil; who eat the flesh of pigs, and whose pots hold broth of impure meat;

I don't understand how the Israelites breaking a command by eating pig could think he was saving himself by his works. What I see is the Israelite being deliberately disobedient and placing his desire in heathen practice which seems contrary to a Christian promoting legalism by non sinning ?

Ok maybe I can loosely see anyone who considers themselves better than another by doing something is sinning and apposed to God.

Yes we see the passage in a different way. Oh well worse things may happen

Edited December 10, 2012 by ninhao

[Guest]

that I believe relates to the topic.

In this context, legalists are focused on the weeds.

Amen~!

I've Found That Within Some Churches There Seems To Lurk A Weeder

And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. Acts 2:46-47

Who (IMO) Continues To Trim The Flock To 1/100 Of What It Should Be

Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Matthew 13:24-30

Nevertheless It Will All Turn Out To The Glory Of Jesus In The End

[GoldenEagle]

that I believe relates to the topic.

In this context, legalists are focused on the weeds.

I think I agree with this guy. Good perspective. Thanks for sharing.

[Guest]

Hey excuse me ... this pic bugs me!

[His_disciple3]

Legalism is a device that self-centered pastors use to control the flocks. Grace however includes unconditional love that keeps a person in fellowship with God (even if we failed some) as Holy Spirit continues to perfect an "every Word of God" lifestyle of truth and purity.

2 Corinthians 3:6 AMP

[it is He] Who has qualified us [making us to be fit and worthy and sufficient] as ministers and dispensers of a new covenant [of salvation through Christ], not [ministers] of the letter (of legally written code) but of the Spirit; for the code [of the Law] kills, but the [Holy] Spirit makes alive.

Good thoughts five.

I believe legalism is trying to earn favor with God apart from the final work of Christ on the cross.

Good thought Tinky. Opinions are great. God's Word is better. Care to back that up with Scripture please?

scriptures says to bear one another burdens, so let me bear the burden of Tinky to answer your question from scriptures, the scriptural references you seek are as this:

Gal 3:9

So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Gal 3:10

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Gal 3:11

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:12

And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Gal 3:13

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

they were three basic principles to pleasing God Before the Law,

1. tithe: Abraham tithe to Melchisedec,

2.Keeping the Sabbath, God rested on the seventh day

3. Circumcision, Gen. 17:10

This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

now there is no dispute that all three of these were also part of the Levitical law: tithe, Sabbath, circumcision,

so why do the Church leaders today only push titheing in the New testament Church? Why have they kept one principle/law and forsaken the other two. for Clearly scriptures do say:

Jas 2:8

If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Jas 2:9

But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

Jas 2:10

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Jas 2:11

For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

now if this has been no help then think upon this, in the very Chapter, that New testament Church leaders use to put the Church back under the law tithe, if we keep one we must keep the whole law, so one place Hebrews 7 that even mentions tithe, ( which is referring back before the law, tells us if the priesthood changes then the law must change :

Heb 7:11If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Heb 7:12

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

My High Priest said to love God with all we have and then love one another, even as we love ourself,

Edited February 17, 2013 by His_disciple3

[GoldenEagle]

Thanks for pointing out those Scriptures brother

His_disciple3

!

[five]

This is part of something I wrote awhile back on legalism in the church. A key point is that legalism actually accelerates sin! 'Legalism' is an abuse of the law and is quite the opposite of sanctification and grace that empowers one to incidentally fulfill what moral laws required without being under the law. The law is not bad because it simply defines what sin is, however the law 'in itself' has no power to save from sin. While the church should not be legalistic, is should in no way be part of 'liberalism' either. Legalism and liberalism are like two ditches on the sides of the road!

Legalism Kills but The Grace-based Church Sets Free

He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Corinthians 3:6 NIV)

The legalistic church is bent (even subtly) on the letter of the law that actually accelerates sin in people’s lives!

Romans 7:8 KJV - But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Romans 7:8 AMP - But sin, finding opportunity in the commandment [to express itself], got a hold on me and aroused and stimulated all kinds of forbidden desires (lust, covetousness). For without the Law sin is dead [the sense of it is inactive and a lifeless thing].

Jesus took the laws that accelerate sin and its passions out of the way!

Colossians 2:13-14 WEB - You were dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh. He made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, (14) wiping out the handwriting in ordinances which was against us; and he has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross;

Through Jesus people are taken out from under the law and put solely under ‘grace’.

Romans 6:14 KJV - For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

A chief motivation of Satan for tempting a believer is to get them under self-condemnation. He will even get other Christians and sometimes pastors to join in with his legalistic condemnation approach.

Romans 8:1 KJV - There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

It is God's extreme mercy and transforming Word that perfects purity, self-control, and perseverance. It is God's goodness that births and completes real change by sanctification and grace. It is not an act of shear willpower.

Romans 2:4 WEB - Or do you despise the riches of his goodness, forbearance, and patience, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

Proverbs 16:6 KJV - By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.

Galatians 6:1 KJV - Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

AMP: "Scripture quotations taken from the Amplified® Bible Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation. Used by permission." (www.Lockman.org)

NIV: Scripture taken from the HOLY BIBLE, NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION®. Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society. Used by permission of Zondervan Publishing House. All rights reserved.

Edited February 18, 2013 by five

[Sevenseas]

Here is an interesting link concerning legalism. I think it defines the subject very well.

A particularly noteworthy observation is this one (from that link):

The self righteousness of the the legalist helps them to avoid taking a closer look at the cross of Christ as the only means to God's favor...interesting that Jesus actually stated pick up

your cross and follow me. Instead of picking up their particular cross, a legalist would simply solve the problem of...say lust for example....by telling OTHERS how to dress

Another remark is that the legalist focuses on YOU rather than on them self. They are already perfect by observing certain tings...now it is YOU that needs to change in order to

be like them so that you can be holy too.

Legalism focuses on performance and certain behaviors rather than on dying to self. Of course, this is not biblical teaching at all.

and it is all cloaked in the language of 'being holy' and 'helping others to live holy lives'

Legalism, with the need for spiritual security that lies behind it, is an opiate for many Christians, a spiritual narcotic designed to compensate for a largely graceless form of religious belief

[Sevenseas]

This is not from the same site, but also noteworthy as this attitude is contrary to scripture. The most important thing to note is that freedom is gained by

subjection to God (in Christ) which restores our relationship with our heavenly Father and in so doing, we are reborn and we come to understand that we are

freed FROM sin which means it is no longer our master. The desire to sin is actually INCREASED when one puts themself back under law

Another very important thing to note, and which those who are free in Christ know and live by, is that we are not free to sin...in fact, we come to understand

that sin grieves our Father's heart and we do not desire to hurt Him but rather wish to live for Him

When we speak of "liberty" or "Christian liberty," we are referring to the liberty or freedom every true Christian inherently has by being in Christ. "Liberty" is commonly defined as, "freedom or release from slavery, imprisonment, captivity, or any other form of arbitrary control." "Christian liberty" refers to a Christian's release and separation from sin, death (ultimately), hell, Satan, and the curse of the law by the redemption of the Lord Jesus Christ. Christ has freed use FROM the things that previously bound use, not IN them so we can continue to sin. Freedom FROM sin should not be twisted to mean freedom TO sin. Though with his liberty a believer can choose what he will do, unless he chooses within the realm of truth and righteousness, he places himself back into a form of bondage. True freedom is only found when one willingly places himself in subjection to God.

[Sevenseas]

Here is an interesting link concerning legalism. I think it defines the subject very well.

A particularly noteworthy observation is this one (from that link):

The self righteousness of the the legalist helps them to avoid taking a closer look at the cross of Christ as the only means to God's favor...interesting that Jesus actually stated pick up

your cross and follow me. Instead of picking up their particular cross, a legalist would simply solve the problem of...say lust for example....by telling OTHERS how to dress

Another remark is that the legalist focuses on YOU rather than on them self. They are already perfect by observing certain tings...now it is YOU that needs to change in order to

be like them so that you can be holy too.

Legalism focuses on performance and certain behaviors rather than on dying to self. Of course, this is not biblical teaching at all.

and it is all cloaked in the language of 'being holy' and 'helping others to live holy lives'

Legalism, with the need for spiritual security that lies behind it, is an opiate for many Christians, a spiritual narcotic designed to compensate for a largely graceless form of religious belief

That leaves me out, because I definately don't believe I have arrived. Dying to self would obviously mean one would have to change certain behaviors. That last comment sounds like psychological mumbo jumbo to me.

Legalism is not the belief that one has arrived. I am not sure where you get that idea from. I cannot help you with the mumbo jumbo...that may just be your perception.