50 Evidences for the PRE-TRIB RAPTURE

[Guest idied2]

Now, in these last days there is both and ability and a need in the church to better understand the doctrines of eschatology and the Spirit is continuing His ministry of guiding the church in all truth.

If you truly want all truth. All you have to do is go into the wilderness and pray and fast and wail before the LORD for forty days and nights. Then you will boldly tell all who can hear. To throw the serpents lies to the wind and get real. Nothing accept faith in the LORD alone is going to be able to help you through what is comming.

James 4

8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

In CHRIST JESUS

[irishcowboy]

What a bunch of drivel and outright lies and twisting of the scriptures.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wow, a curse and a blessing all in one post.....

do you honestly believe you are the only authorityon the end times???

do you believe that others have not researched out the entire set of books of scripture and come to other conclussions????

do you honestly believe that your view is the only correct view???

you may have several years of study, there are others that have decades of study on the same subject......

anytime some one trys to bring up a point, you start insulting them and calling them false teacher or prophet and such......

what makes you such an authority????

we all could start slamming you the same way....... personally, i believe you to be all wet behind the ears as far as your thoughts on post trib rapture.... adn there are many others i am sure feel the same way.... time to get off your high horse and learn to listen to others....

I believe it is you who is twisting and manipulating the scriptures to meet your own selfish desires......

mike

[irishcowboy]

the rapture is not the return of Christ, that is where the church is taken home for the wedding feast..... the return is after the trib, when Christ comes in riding in on the White Horse, leading His army into battle.......

mike

[Old Timer]

So, Dad Ernie, bowing to your superior intellect and error-free interpretation of the coming Great Tribulation, final outpouring of the Wrath of God, and Rapture of the Church I plead with you to share your wisdom and instruct me on what I should be looking for next. My Lord Jesus said to

[Old Timer]

I don't believe that Christ is going to take home His own at the expense of innocent human life and countless tradgedy.

If God wills to remove His people, why would he vandalize society and cause death and chaos in the process?  Isn't this what the doctrine teaches? (ie. Left Behind) This sounds more like a terror attack than a translation.  Why would people want anything to do with a god and a doctrine that exempts you from tragedy and cause much tragedy and chaos in the process? This is a double standard!

Reverend Turmoil, just a few comments on your first paragraph.

[irishcowboy]

turmoil,

you obviously have no understanding of God what so ever......

if you were to ask the question would God send a good man ( or person ) to hell, the answer is no.... the only thing is, there are non that are good save the Father... we all are sinners... we all fall short of the Glory of God.... it is with Christ Jesus that we have any hope what so ever.....

if we reject Christ, we loose......

if we accept Christ, we win.....

that is all there is to it.....

what you are talking about is Universalism..... which is a false teaching in its self...

which is based on the idea that no one will be lost to satan..... unfortunately that is not going to be the case, and the Bible tells us this.....

yes, while it is true that every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord...... some will be doing it out of praise and adoration, while others will be on their knees begging for mercy as they are being drug away and cast into the lake of fire....

keep in mind, ( and the Bible teaches us this as well..... Jesus even talks about it ) that the lake of fire, hell, was not ment for man kind, but for satan and the fallen angels....... however..... man will partake of the penalties of eternal death right along with the fallen angels......

seek the Spirit of the Lord for more and further and deeper understanding....

mike

[Guest danrusdad]

the rapture is not the return of Christ, that is where the church is taken home for the wedding feast..... the return is after the trib, when Christ comes in riding in on the White Horse, leading His army into battle.......

mike

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mike,

If you truly believe this from scripture, why not back up what you say with scripture and show those of us who do not believe in a pre-trib rapture where we are wrong? It's easy to just say what you believe, but another thing to show the scripture to back it up.

So, Jesus 'returns' for His church, but this isn't a 'return', the REAL 'return' is later?

scripture please...

How do you know from scripture, the return is after the trib? How long is the trib, according to scripture?

Who is the army Christ brings with Him?

You offer several statements, but no evidence. Understand that I'm not attempting to belittle, or deride your belief. I just want to know why you believe what you believe. Is it because you have read the scriptures in light of what you have been taught or is it because you gleaned from the scripture without any assumptions?

Where in scripture is the 70th week of Daniel called the 'tribulation'?

Where in scripture is the 70th week equated with the wrath of God?

Where in scripture is the Rapture said to be imminent? (There's a difference between imminency and expectancy.)

What is the difference between the TWO main words that are translated 'coming' in the NT? (Did you know there are two DIFFERENT words used, and that understanding what they mean is critical to understanding the Rapture in relation to teh Second Coming?)

[irishcowboy]

would it really matter what scripture is laid out before you????

here is a small bit for you to chew on.....

the Hermeneutic:

Pre-millennialism literal

Amillennialism and Post Millennialism figurative

the binding of satan :

pre millennialism literal

Amillennialism and Post at the cross

the nature of the first resurrection

pre millennialism at the time of the rapture

Amillennialism and Post Millennialism at conversion

the judgements

pre millennialism The Judgment seat of Christ before the millennium and the Great White Throne Judgement after the millennium

Amillennialism and Post Millennialism one general judgment after a general resurrection of both the rightous and the wicked

The place of Israel

Pre millennialism Israel's literal restoration in the millennium

Amillennialism and Post Millennialism Israel's deletion from God's plan forever

The Reign of Christ and the saints "on the earth"

Pre Millennialism After Christ returns

Amillennialism and Post Millennialism in the present age

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1. THE METHOD OF LITERAL INTERPRETATION it does not spiritualize away the plain meaning of the Scriptures ( 2 Tim 2:15, 3:16, 2 Peter 1:19-21)

2. THE PURPOSE OF THE TRIBULATION PERIOD it is designed to punish sinners and to purify Israel, not Christians ( Isaiah 34:2, Jeremiah 30:7, Daniel 9:24 )

3. THE NATURE OF THE CHURCH wrath will not be poured out on the body of Christ for which He has already suffered on its behalf ( Ephesians 1:22-23, Colossians 1:18, 1 Thessalonians 1:10 )

4. THE DOCTRINE OF THE IMMINENCE Christ could come at any time with out warning ( Mathew 24:44, Luke 12:40, 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 )

5. THE PROMISES TO BELIEVERS Christ has promised to deliver them from the coming wrath upon the earth ( Luke 21:36, 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Revelation 3:10 )

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there is more, you have been provided plenty, but as before, you will discount it anyway you can, to make sure you stay on top. that is no problem..... you do what you think you must do.....

mike

[irishcowboy]

by the way what fellowship are you a "reverend" of? just curious, it might help me understand where you may be coming from.

God is a Good God, and a Just God, and has no tolerance for sin.

what makes you believe that God will not send humans to hell? that He will not destroy humans that do not hold up their end of the covenant????

God sent His wrath down on the entire valley of sodom, sparing only 4 initially and then one turns back and looses out also for not following instructions...

God sent His wrath down on the entire world and destroyed all but 8 humans....

God sent His wrath down on Israel, the earth opened up and sucked up those that were sinning....

God sent His wrath down on Egypt, and removed them from being a world power...

through out history, God has punished those that did not abide by His rules.....

God has set a covenent up with us, if we take Christ Jesus as our Lord, we will be spared the lake of fire, if we do not take Christ Jesus, we will share the lake of fire with the fallen angels.....

as far as inocent lives, we all fall short... there is none that are sin free save the Lord Jesus....... who then is inocent???

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Daniel's Vision of 70 weeks ( Dan 9:24 - 27 )

1. Prophecy has to do with Daniels "People" the jews and the "city" of Jerusalem v.24

2. Two different " Princes" are mentioned

v. 25 Messiah the Prince

v. 26 Prince that shall come

3. Seventy weeks are divided: 7 weeks, 62 weeks, 1 week

4. The beginning of this prophecy is definately fixed, v 25 from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build jerusalem.

5. The end of the 7 weeks and three score adn two weeks ( 69 ) the "Messiah Prince" shall appear.

6. Afterward: ( 69 weeks )

Messiah the Prince shall be cut off.

Jerusalem will be destroyed by the "people of another prince" yet to come. v. 26

The Decree Nehemiah 2:1-8

During the 20th year of Artaxerxes, month of Nisau

Encyclopedia Britannica says: Artaxerxes accended as King 465 B.C.

His 20th year would have been 445 B.C. Our Calendar: Mar 14, 445 B.C.

69 weeks of 7 kyears times 360 days in a year equal 173,880 days

(69 x 7 x 360 = 173,880 )

Begining March 14, 445 B.C. and ends April 6, 32 A.D. ( Jerusalem, Palm Sunday )

The day the Messiah was proclaimed King upon entering Jerusalem. ( Luke 19:28 - 44 ( v 38-40 )

7. Daniel 9:26 After his appearing two events happen:

(1) Messiah shall be "cutoff" crucifixion

(2) "people" of the Prince that shall come, will destroy the sanctuary adn the city. Rome Empire - 70 A.D. (Luke 19:42 - 44)

8. The Biginning of the 70th week will be clearly marked by the establishment of a "firm covenant" between the "other prince " (anti christ)and the Jewish nation (Dan 9:27)

9. in the midst of the 70th week withe other prince (anti christ ) will break the treaty, and cause the Jewish sacrifice to cease. v. 27 ( 2 Thess 2:3-4 )

Abominations of desolation will continue to the end of the week. ( Matt 24:15-21 )

10. with the completion of the whole period of the 70 weeks, there will be ushered in a time of great and unparalleled blessings for the nation of Israel. v.24

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Abominations of Desolations, Great Tribulation Rev. 6:-19:

69th week - gap - 70th week

1. Vision is for Jewish people

2. two events: Crucifixion and destruction of Jerusalem after the 69th week not with in

3. other gaps in Bible History: Isa 9:6, 61:1-2, Luke 4:16-21

all for now

mike

[other one]

So, Dad Ernie, bowing to your superior intellect and error-free interpretation of the coming Great Tribulation, final outpouring of the Wrath of God, and Rapture of the Church I plead with you to share your wisdom and instruct me on what I should be looking for next. My Lord Jesus said to