Guest shiloh357 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 So even though the bible don't say the canon is closed, since YOU haven't recieved or heard any new revelation then there can't be any? I asked you a simple question. What new revelation has come to us in the last 2,000 years that we need to be aware of? If there is none, then the issue about new revelation is a nonissue, unless you feel you have some new revelation that you want to bring forth for review? I remember when I died. Leagelly dead, and dead long enough my brain was not active. The bible says to be absent from the body is present with the lord. That is very true. Because it's what happen to me. The things I saw were beyond words, and the scripture it's self could not contain God, not even the earth itself. People have told me here that Jesus is the full and final revelation of God to us. But you could also argue he was nothing more than A further illumination on who God is. After what I saw when I died, I know better than to say the bible contains the complete and entire fullness of God, and if he chooses to reveal that than that is his choice. It is not a case of saying that the Bible contains all that be known about God. Such a book doesn't exist. The point is that God's last revelation of Himself is Jesus Christ. Everything that God has to say to man on THIS side of the grave is Jesus. That doesn't mean that later on in eternity we won't know about God and more revelation will come. The point is that in this age, and in this hour everything you need to know about God has been given to you. I got rather upset after the last posts. I felt like I was basicly told that I have to prove a new revelation or it doesn't exsist. I am recieving comments about there is no new revelations like this , ( the entire and complete revelation of the fulness of God, heaven, hell, and every other peice of knowledge that we will or could ever learn, in this life or the next, is in the bible). Now the bible says the earht itself can't contain the fulness of God, but the bible does? There is nothing more we could ever learn about God...EVER. I don't accept that. There is nothing that says God can't reveal something about himself. Nothing. The problem here is that you are trying to refute an argument that no one is making. You have completely misread and misrepresented what is being said. No one said that the fullness of God was contained in the Bible. If you want to debate the issue that fine, but stop trying to put words in our mouths. Stop assigning false values to our arguments. The reason you got upset is because you are reacting to what you thought we said, and not what was said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted December 13, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 SO, If the Bible (GOD) doesn't say the canon is closed, If the Bible (GOD) doesn't say no more new revelation. If the Bible is not the source of this belief, then what is the source? Many have tried to show you that the scripture do verify that the word of God is the last new revelations from God. It looks like the ball is in your court, the bible doesn't day it is open, if so, where? But the proof is in the pudding, why don't you list only one new revelation that has occurred since the Apostles died and that will be a start to prove your point. When I asked about the scriptures used, no body responded, and when someone finally did, even though they don't agree with me, they turned around and said everybody had been using them out of context. applying a meaning that isn't there. Those verses never, not one time say GOD can't add to scripture. NOT ONCE. before I answer your question, what is the definition of revelation you are using, once I know that, I will answer your question about a new revelation. New revelation is something that has not been shown in scripture before from God. You can post any since the Apostles last wrote. I have personally never heard of one. See post #98 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted December 13, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 I got rather upset after the last posts. I felt like I was basicly told that I have to prove a new revelation or it doesn't exsist. I am recieving comments about there is no new revelations like this , ( the entire and complete revelation of the fulness of God, heaven, hell, and every other peice of knowledge that we will or could ever learn, in this life or the next, is in the bible). Now the bible says the earht itself can't contain the fulness of God, but the bible does? There is nothing more we could ever learn about God...EVER. I don't accept that. There is nothing that says God can't reveal something about himself. Nothing. Even though I'm pretty sure someone will say this is illumination and not revelation. Here you go. The moment in time when Christ returns is a revelation. No one but the Father at this moment knows this. It is unknown by all inculding Christ but the Father. So when that moment comes, whenever that is. It will be a revelation. The exact moment is not in scripture. Christ doesn't know when he will return by his own words. The moment Christ returns for us will be a revelation because no one knows the day or hour. I would say this, what we need to know is contained in the Bible. Simply put the Bible is our introduction to Christ. It expresses how we should give our lives unto God so it can be lived unto God. While I do believe the Bible doesn't contain a glimpse of what it is to know our Father it does not have to, nor are there any new revelations needed to understand Him. We barely understand him with what we have. I believe that as we live in eternity with Him, He will explain what we did not understand here. We will also get to know our Father in ways that are far above what we can every even delight in now. Let us keep running the race. Very graceful answer, God bless you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 SO, If the Bible (GOD) doesn't say the canon is closed, If the Bible (GOD) doesn't say no more new revelation. If the Bible is not the source of this belief, then what is the source? Many have tried to show you that the scripture do verify that the word of God is the last new revelations from God. It looks like the ball is in your court, the bible doesn't day it is open, if so, where? But the proof is in the pudding, why don't you list only one new revelation that has occurred since the Apostles died and that will be a start to prove your point. When I asked about the scriptures used, no body responded, and when someone finally did, even though they don't agree with me, they turned around and said everybody had been using them out of context. applying a meaning that isn't there. Those verses never, not one time say GOD can't add to scripture. NOT ONCE. before I answer your question, what is the definition of revelation you are using, once I know that, I will answer your question about a new revelation. New revelation is something that has not been shown in scripture before from God. You can post any since the Apostles last wrote. I have personally never heard of one. See post #98 Yeah, that's a cop out. Christ is the revelation of God and will be revealed in His coming but that is not what we are talking about, and you know it. We are talking about information about God that has not been previously revealed. Your argument is that there is no reason why God can't add new Scripture to the Bible and when asked to provide any evidence of such revelation, you point to the second coming of Christ, instead of providing evidence of new Scripture. The fact is that your position is a non-issue because in 2,000 years no new Scripture has been given to us by God. God said everything He needed to say to us in terms of revelation of Himself and He said if fully and finally in Jesus Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted December 13, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 The fact is that your position is a non-issue because in 2,000 years no new Scripture has been given to us by God. God said everything He needed to say to us in terms of revelation of Himself and He said if fully and finally in Jesus Christ. And asking me to prove a new revelation is not a cop-out, when you can't do it in the bible? Also, so you admit that is a new revelation? If God said everything that needed to be said to us, then there would be no need for the Holy Spirit to speak to us, or guide us. There would be no need for dreams or visions. I can do this all day. but how about we just agree to disagree on this, and God bless you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 And asking me to prove a new revelation is not a cop-out, I didn't ask you to prove a new revelation. I was simply trying to show you that there has never been any new revelation. My point is that your inability to show where in the last 2,000 years any new revelatory writings have been written should show you that there has never been any revelation of God in the last 2 millennia and that should serve as evidence that the Bible is a closed canon. If God said everything that needed to be said to us, then there would be no need for the Holy Spirit to speak to us, or guide us. But that is not revelation. God guiding us and speaking to us through His spirit is NOTrevelation; it is illumination. Therein lies the problem. You don't understand what revelation is, and you are trying refute arguments that haven't been raised, and getting upset about things that haven't been said because, with all due respect, you are not theologically equipped to talk about something when you can't even get the basic terminology straight. I can do this all day. but how about we just agree to disagree on this, and God bless you Better idea: Become better familiar with the issue and the terminology involved and we can have a profitable discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted December 13, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 Better idea: Become better familiar with the issue and the terminology involved and we can have a profitable discussion. wow, getting alittle high and mighty are we. You have been saying there is no new revelation. When there is. This life or the next is unimportant. there is things that have not been revealed to us. new revelation. Everything has not been revealed. so, since there is new revelation, there is only one more question. Strictly from the bible, can God give it out now if he chooses to? Is there anything in the word Where God says he can't or won't give more now. By the way, I stated from the beginning I had not looked into this much, that I was here to seek God's truth. and you say, go away and come back when you know the terminology? Nice Christ like attuide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted December 13, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2012 Please remember to follow the ToS. Debate the subject not the person. It is possible to disagree about a doctrine or subject under discussion without insulting the person with whom you are debating. Respect each other in the love of God. From the ToS... Abuse of other posters is not allowed. This includes, but is not limited to, name calling, insulting, harassing, threatening or in any way invading the privacy of another poster. We also strongly discourage giving out personal information such as email addresses, physical addresses and phone numbers on the public boards. Any information given out in private is at your own discretion and risk. (Eph. 4: 29) Debate the subject, not the person. It is possible to disagree about a doctrine or subject under discussion without insulting the person with whom you are debating. Also remember that the fact that a person disagrees with you does not mean they are attacking you as a person. Respect each other in the love of God! This is the main reason that threads get stopped, shut down, and even deleted! Users that cannot respect others will be banned. (Lev. 19:18) This is a privately funded message board, we reserve the right to edit or remove any postings that we feel are detrimental to the fellowship on this board, or detrimental to the witness of the board, as we see fit. It is not possible to read every post. If you see a board violation, please report it using the “Report Post” button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 wow, getting alittle high and mighty are we. You have been saying there is no new revelation. When there is. What I said is that there is no new revelation on this side of eternity. I did not say there is no new revelation. My point is that we have gotten all we are going to get in the word of God and the Person of Jesus Christ. The Bible as we have it is God's Word and revelation to us today. You won't get more until you step out into eternity. By the way, I stated from the beginning I had not looked into this much, that I was here to seek God's truth. and you say, go away and come back when you know the terminology? Nice Christ like attuide Well, it is clear that you are using the word "revelation" incorrectly, and I have tried repeatedly in this thread to explain to you that your use of "revelation" actually better fits the term "illumination." The terms have been repeatedly defined and redefined to help you understand the terminology and you keep on inisisting on using the terms in the wrong way. There is no way to have a good discussion if you are going to keep on misusing terminology after it has been defined for you over and over again. I don't have an unChristlike attitude, but it is frustrating because it feels less like you are here to learn and more like you have an agenda to push and that is why you keep on ignoring what revelation is. You need for revelation to possess the meaning you want it to have in order to make the case that canon isn't closed. The Bible doesn't say anything about the canon because the issues of canonicity are post-biblical. God has sent no propets or apostles with new revelation. That should tell you something. For 2,000 years we have had no new revelation of any kind and so far the best evidence of that is that no one can provide any when asked to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted December 13, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2012 This thread is a concern to me. First, if the argument is about the scripture still being open, than what do you all believe is worthy to be called His words besides scripture? Many writings have already been rejected. They were rejected because the writings did not line up with scripture. Is there something that you believe lines up with scripture written today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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