MATTHEW 5:48

[OneLight]

When God looks upon us, ask yourself if He is seeing us or is He seeing Christ in us? Christ is the only perfection we will even have in our lives. We, as human, will never be perfect. Only He in us is perfect.

[gdemoss]

When God looks upon us, ask yourself if He is seeing us or is He seeing Christ in us? Christ is the only perfection we will even have in our lives. We, as human, will never be perfect. Only He in us is perfect.

Can you provide scripture that shows that when God looks at us that he sees Christ even if we are being disobedient to Christ? I would like to understand this doctrine better. I only see the scripture saying that God sees me as me. That if I put on Christ and walk in him then God sees me as Christ, the cleft of the rock that I have hidden myself in as I am conformed to his death by picking up my cross, denying myself and walking in him. If I come out of the rock and walk in disobedience, it appears that scripture says that the wrath of God abides upon me being a child of disobedience. How is it you say he sees me as Christ still when I am not truly walking in Him? Where is my scriptural reference that guides me to understand this to be true?

[Guest man]

The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.

[allofgrace]

1 Cor 1:27-31 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

There are others but this passage shows that no flesh can glory in God's presence. Only those in Christ Jesus who is the believer's wisdom from God, their righteousness, sanctification and redemption is always in Christ Jesus only and the believers by grace through faith. No acts of the believer ever makes them any more righteous nor any less righteous because all their righteousness is imputed by being in Christ. Once this is realized then one can see that Christ Jesus is their wisdom from God, and their righteousness, sanctification and redemption forevermore.

[gdemoss]

1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Buyer beware.

[allofgrace]

Doing righteous acts are expected from believers but are done by faith in Jesus Christ being led by the Holy Spirit and they do not add any righteousness to the perfect righteousness which believers have in Christ Jesus. He gets all the glory, Phil 2:13 it is God working in you to will and to do of His good pleasure. You cannot add any thing to Christ Jesus, He is already perfect in every way. Those verses posted do nothing to show that mans good deeds add anything to their imputed righteousness. There is no condemnation to those that are in Christ Jesus for the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set them free from the law of sin and death. Rom 8:1 and 2. And blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute sin(Rom 4:8) if the man is in Christ Jesus their sins are not imputed to them or is this scripture in error?

Edited January 20, 2013 by allofgrace

[gdemoss]

Still yet nothing proving that when God looks at us he sees Christ even when we continue in disobedience. The scriptures are filled with "if's" because God is conditional in all he does. When God looks down, he sees me as I am always. His choice not to impute sin unto me 'if' I fit the conditions set forth to receive imputed righteousness, has nothing to do with 'what' he sees when he looks down upon me.

Here is a good example of one of those wonderful yet scary 'ifs'

1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

• if we walk in the light...then
  
  • we have fellowship one with another
    
  • the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin
    

Please show me one instance of God looking down out of heaven and seeing Christ instead of the individual spoken of. I would like to see it that I may learn.

[allofgrace]

Still yet nothing proving that when God looks at us he sees Christ even when we continue in disobedience. The scriptures are filled with "if's" because God is conditional in all he does. When God looks down, he sees me as I am always. His choice not to impute sin unto me 'if' I fit the conditions set forth to receive imputed righteousness, has nothing to do with 'what' he sees when he looks down upon me.

Here is a good example of one of those wonderful yet scary 'ifs'

1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

• if we walk in the light...then
  
  • we have fellowship one with another
    
  • the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin
    

Please show me one instance of God looking down out of heaven and seeing Christ instead of the individual spoken of. I would like to see it that I may learn.

Just for the record, I am not advocating that obedience is not the goal of a believer otherwise you are the servant of the one you obey. But regardless of how obedient a believer is, they add nothing to the righteousness of Christ. The question for you to answer is whose righteousness gets the person to heaven, the imputed righteousness of Christ or the person's obedience. Does the believer have the righteousness of Christ for the forgiveness of sin and being sealed with the Holy Spirit. That will answer your question. Is 1 Cor 1:30-31 correct?

Edited January 21, 2013 by allofgrace

[gdemoss]

Still yet nothing proving that when God looks at us he sees Christ even when we continue in disobedience. The scriptures are filled with "if's" because God is conditional in all he does. When God looks down, he sees me as I am always. His choice not to impute sin unto me 'if' I fit the conditions set forth to receive imputed righteousness, has nothing to do with 'what' he sees when he looks down upon me.

Here is a good example of one of those wonderful yet scary 'ifs'

1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

• if we walk in the light...then
  
  • we have fellowship one with another
    
  • the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin
    

Please show me one instance of God looking down out of heaven and seeing Christ instead of the individual spoken of. I would like to see it that I may learn.

Just for the record, I am not advocating that obedience is not the goal of a believer otherwise you are the servant of the one you obey. But regardless of how obedient a believer is, they add nothing to the righteousness of Christ. The question for you to answer is whose righteousness gets the person to heaven, the imputed righteousness of Christ or the person's obedience. Does the believer have the righteousness of Christ for the forgiveness of sin and being sealed with the Holy Spirit. That will answer your question. Is 1 Cor 1:30-31 correct?

The only question needing answered is how does God see the believer? As they are in truth is what he sees.

'Is your interpretation of what you believe 1 Cor:30-31 correct?' would be a better question. It is interesting what you try to make it say. Of course the scriptures are correct, that is a silly question. Our understanding of them is what ends up flawed. You haven't shown what I have said to be false. Imputed righteousness is a good topic and it is clear as to whom will receive such in Romans 4.

Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which [he had] being [yet] uncircumcised.

Try as you might, you cannot divorce works from faith as works define faith. Whatever it means to 'walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham' is required for imputed righteousness according to what Paul wrote. Verse 11 covers the context that we are talking about imputed righteousness.

But the question is about how God sees us, not about imputed righteousness. If God is going to judge whether our faith is genuine, he must, by his own standard, look at who we are in truth and not ignore that which we do.

Peace in Christ.

[OneLight]

When God looks upon us, ask yourself if He is seeing us or is He seeing Christ in us? Christ is the only perfection we will even have in our lives. We, as human, will never be perfect. Only He in us is perfect.

Can you provide scripture that shows that when God looks at us that he sees Christ even if we are being disobedient to Christ? I would like to understand this doctrine better. I only see the scripture saying that God sees me as me. That if I put on Christ and walk in him then God sees me as Christ, the cleft of the rock that I have hidden myself in as I am conformed to his death by picking up my cross, denying myself and walking in him. If I come out of the rock and walk in disobedience, it appears that scripture says that the wrath of God abides upon me being a child of disobedience. How is it you say he sees me as Christ still when I am not truly walking in Him? Where is my scriptural reference that guides me to understand this to be true?

Who is "me" if not a human washed in the blood of Christ? If God does not see the blood, am I His? He does not see us as Christ for we can never be Christ. He sees His Son covering us. Do I have scripture for it ? Not at the moment. I will try and put it together for you, but chances are, we are both looking at the same scripture, but coming out with different understandings.

If you reread my statement, I said we will never be perfect.