Matthitjah Posted January 13, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 Mat_18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! Once again we scripture quoted out of context that has nothing whatsoever to do with the purpose it's being used. In context; Mt 18:6 But whoever shall offend one of these little ones who believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Mt 18:7 ¶ Woe unto the world because of offenses! for it must needs be that offenses come; but woe to that man by whom the offense comes! This passage is very applicable, but not in the fashion that its being wielded. God is talking about those who cause others to sin. That does happen when we hide the Truth under a shroud of supposed sympathy with the transgressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinky Posted January 13, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,602 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 291 Days Won: 8 Joined: 10/24/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1986 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I think that during the Tribulation, there will be a "numerical reckoning" for every baby that has been aborted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 13, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 13, 2013 "Why would desire to share the "other side's" thoughts on account of some "baiting"? Have you seen the debates with the posters he was addressing?" no, haven't seen other debates, as they weren't part of this particular thread. as far as why i'd share, the lack of the other background you mention left me with nothing but the OP in this thread. i didn't realize it was a vendetta that had overflowed from another thread. A frustration is not a vendetta. You have been rebuking us for misjudging, yet you have misjudged yourself. The question was, "Could some of you Christians who are Obama supporters please help me to understand how you can justify your stance....?" In everything you have said, you have completely bypassed the question of "how can you justify your stance"? "Odd question to ask. Consider: hmmm, wonder what Jesus would do with all the racists? hmmm, wonder what Jesus would do with all the drug dealers? hmmm, wonder what Jesus would do with all the pimps? hmmm, wonder what Jesus would do with all the greedy?" 4 more good questions. what do you think? are these offenses of similar nature to the adulteress? You still didn't answer the question of "What does God do...?" It seems you have a hard time dealing with God's holiness and righteousness. Can you fathom perfect holiness being characteristic of the same being who is perfect love? and Christ can forgive any of those if they;re truly repentant, but we're still instructed to obey the law of the land and be subject to it. lots of folks get right with God in prison. God forgave David, but David still was still severely punished his actions. And what of those who don't repent? adultery wasn't a crime under Roman law (the law of the land,) it was a fairly accepted practice. it was a violation of Jewish law, which was subject to Roman law. the greedy are already assured of their reward according to the Word i read, but greed that results in Ponzi schemes or other fraud/theft is prosecutable. racism in conjunction with other "criminal" behavior can be prosecuted as a "hate crime" in US courts. pimping and drug-dealing are illegal activities and prosecutable under US law. Do you base good and evil on man's law or God's law? "Why are you asking these questions? Do you want us to be more angry at these people than we are grief-stricken and angered at the millions of innocent lives sacrificed through abortion?" wow, you miss the last of my post? what is it with people that only see what they want, and ignore the most important things? i'm not advocating you or anyone else be angry with anybody. where did you come up with that from the following? "there's always more to a story than just one side, and i'm not called to be a judge. i'm told that if someone offends me, forgive them; not just once or twice, but 70 times 7. i'm told the be in the world, but not of it. i'm commanded to represent Christ to the best of my ability and proclaim and defend His Gospel of salvation based on God's long-suffering, unfathomable love. i'm not supposed to be about throwing stones, regardless of situation or circumstance." So, you want us to forget the innocent blood spilled via abortion for the sake of letting people fight for their right to sin in the name of love? Because in the end, if we stop crying out against abortion, that's what happens. the narrative i read was all about a politically motivated conservative "Christian" republican viewpoint; the lead-in specifically asked about Obama followers, can't be much more political than that. and that's scary, given people like Akin with his ridiculous "legitimate rape" (do you believe there is legitimate rape?) and absolutely preposterous, completely false (Christians aren't supposed to be purveyors of falsehoods, but are to revel in the TRUTH) reproductive shut-down explanation. we're also admonished to "study to show thyself approved" so we can speak intelligently on a subject. but in the last days many false prophets will be about with their false doctrines (teaching) and the folks with "itching ears" will eat that stuff up, or so the Word of God i read states. but maybe i don't understand plain words, or the sad, pathetic state of the politicians our once-great nation currently has installed. Again, you are judging the OP based on others' words and deeds. Are you being apolitical in your response and reaction? "Would you defend a rapist with this argument? Or a wife beater? Or an animal abuser?" there you go again. i'm not a lawyer defending anybody. all of those are criminal acts, prosecutable under US laws. while adultery is, i believe, a sin, it's not a crime in the US. in fact, it may not even be grounds for divorce anymore in some states, whereas the Word states it's the only grounds for divorce. i'm an advocate for eternal salvation thru Jesus Christ. and while God's forgiveness knows no bounds, the consequences of one's actions are something an individual has to accept. if you're convicted of breaking the law of the land, expect to pay the price. And what of breaking the Law of God? Do you believe Christ's death means God no longer punishes sin? If so, why would Jesus have been telling people to repent as often as He did? Revelation 21:8 - "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Gal. 5 - 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Cont ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 13, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 13, 2013 "But don't forget what follows:" heed your own advice, brother. As a scientist, you should be a bit more observant. My gender is included in my profile next to my posts. Don't you think you should be paying a little more attention to details before calling a female a "brother"? the Lord gave me a brain and the capacity to learn. i worked for years as a biology field researcher, where you have to put aside as much as you are able your beliefs/perceptions and concentrate on being as objective as possible. it's tough to do, for as you believe, so you perceive, and vice-versa. you have to consider everything possible that might influence the results of a test or experiment relating to a particular subject of study, then try to evaluate how much those factors may influence your observations. and in science as well as in everyday life, we make assumptions that may or may not be correct. the real world is not all cut and dried. many folks who may mean well take a superficial view of something and based on their beliefs/perceptions formulate their own "truths" which may or may not be supported by factual evidence. and when they encounter something that contradicts their mindset, they reject it, because it makes them uncomfortable. lots of folks make decisions based on inadequate knowledge of facts or data, and some by ignoring or twisting the facts to support their idea of how things should be. and when that happens, ultimately no one benefits. Thank you for your nice little boast, but I am a biologist, too. Please don't assume I haven't been using my brain and reasoning in what I believe. you sorta conveniently skipped verse 17 and 21: 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. No, I did not skip those. Rather, I was pointing out the section I wanted you to focus on. And it seems you do have a hard time with God's holiness and righteousness, else you wouldn't have completely ignored those verses in your response. Yes there is salvation for those that believe and repent. But what of those who do not? i'm in the Light, not hiding from anyone or thing. a truth for all of us who will admit can be found here: 1 Corinthians 13:12 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. Sure, but what does this have to do with supporting the defense of abortion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted January 13, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 Awesome quote that I just saw on Facebook; Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want rain without thunder and lightning. ~ Frederick Douglass That's about where I stand on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted January 13, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I think that during the Tribulation, there will be a "numerical reckoning" for every baby that has been aborted. I believe so too, and I believe every Christian that backed those who support abortion will answer for every drop of blood shed by those innocent children. I am hard core on this just as I am for the Christians who support gay marriage. Wake up Church, time is getting short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Due to Roe vs. Wade and things like Stare Decisis, abortion is more or less a settled legal issue in America. The Supreme Court has to respect the previous rulings of the court, so even a supreme court stacked with conservatives couldn't really rule against it. Short of a Constitutional Amendment, it won't happen. And a Constitutional Amendment could never realistically happen unless you had Todd Akin for every Congressman and Ultra-Conservative Republican Governors, it didn't happen when There was a Republican Controlled Executive Branch and both houses of Congress. It requires Ratification by 3/4th's of the states as well. So... What realistic proposal would someone have to stop abortion? Number 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selasphorus Posted January 14, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 146 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 45 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/21/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 14, 2013 "But don't forget what follows:" heed your own advice, brother. As a scientist, you should be a bit more observant. My gender is included in my profile next to my posts. Don't you think you should be paying a little more attention to details before calling a female a "brother"? the Lord gave me a brain and the capacity to learn. i worked for years as a biology field researcher, where you have to put aside as much as you are able your beliefs/perceptions and concentrate on being as objective as possible. it's tough to do, for as you believe, so you perceive, and vice-versa. you have to consider everything possible that might influence the results of a test or experiment relating to a particular subject of study, then try to evaluate how much those factors may influence your observations. and in science as well as in everyday life, we make assumptions that may or may not be correct. the real world is not all cut and dried. many folks who may mean well take a superficial view of something and based on their beliefs/perceptions formulate their own "truths" which may or may not be supported by factual evidence. and when they encounter something that contradicts their mindset, they reject it, because it makes them uncomfortable. lots of folks make decisions based on inadequate knowledge of facts or data, and some by ignoring or twisting the facts to support their idea of how things should be. and when that happens, ultimately no one benefits. Thank you for your nice little boast, but I am a biologist, too. Please don't assume I haven't been using my brain and reasoning in what I believe. you sorta conveniently skipped verse 17 and 21: 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. No, I did not skip those. Rather, I was pointing out the section I wanted you to focus on. And it seems you do have a hard time with God's holiness and righteousness, else you wouldn't have completely ignored those verses in your response. Yes there is salvation for those that believe and repent. But what of those who do not? i'm in the Light, not hiding from anyone or thing. a truth for all of us who will admit can be found here: 1 Corinthians 13:12 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. Sure, but what does this have to do with supporting the defense of abortion? dear nebula, i apologize for my error in referring to you as brother. however, by doing so i illustrated one of my own points in a previous post. i was not boasting about work that i have done. i was trying to help folks know/understand a bit more about me. i apologize for offending you. although i cannot see where i specifically addressed that you did not use your brain, i apologize for offending you. i have no difficulty at all with God's holiness and righteousness, thanks for your concern. Revelation 22:21 (KJV) 21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeespiller87 Posted January 14, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 212 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,691 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 449 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/28/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted January 14, 2013 that is 918 abortions every day wow that is 918 too many how sad. so in the last 2 days we had 1,036 abortions happen at planned parent hood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning_Ember Posted January 14, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,009 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 100 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 14, 2013 Due to Roe vs. Wade and things like Stare Decisis, abortion is more or less a settled legal issue in America. The Supreme Court has to respect the previous rulings of the court, so even a supreme court stacked with conservatives couldn't really rule against it. Short of a Constitutional Amendment, it won't happen. And a Constitutional Amendment could never realistically happen unless you had Todd Akin for every Congressman and Ultra-Conservative Republican Governors, it didn't happen when There was a Republican Controlled Executive Branch and both houses of Congress. It requires Ratification by 3/4th's of the states as well. So... What realistic proposal would someone have to stop abortion? That's not the point and you know it so please don't siderail the conversation because it paints this Leftist President in an unpleasant light. This is what Leftists do every time they gain power in the world and have done throughout history. They murder the defenseless. The old, the infirmed, and those who have no advocate. So because it is the Law of the land we, CHRISTIANS, should stand idly by and watch the devestating consequences of satans rage against women and children? What's your stance on a lost generation? What's your stance on 1 million abortions in 3 years of a Presidential Administration? What's your stance on this President presiding over a three fold increase monetarily and practically in the taxpayer funded killing/murder of a generation? You can be as Outraged about all of this as you want, Matthijah. But you need a solution, not just emotions about it. So again, you have a problem you're facing, abortion exists in America. What do you propose as a realistic solution to stop this? All the pro life advocates in the world could not stop enough Democrats from being elected to get a Constitutional Amendment to happen, which is more or less the only way to get that done. Funny enough, the abortion rate actually increased under Bush and decreased under Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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