The Ten Virgins - What is the parable about? Matt 25

[OneLight]

You are also attempting to divide and separate the Great Trib from Gods Wrath , you do not understand that they are both destined and are both set forth by God Himself , it is Gods way of showing the entire planet earth that GOD is in Control ,HE is using the worlds stage to show everyone that HE is in charge .

Ezekiel 38

King James Version (KJV)

3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: 6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:

16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord God: every man's sword shall be against his brother.

22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the Lord.

Regarding the Last Trumpet ,,well IF you had studied the matter you would know what the Feast of Trumpets is, how it applies to this , what the Jewish Feast days mean and why the Last trumpet is NOT the 7th trumpet of Revelation

The Feast of Trumpets uses a pattern that will include each of 4 sounds of the shofar

the Feast of Tabernacles

1st) This sound is called Tekiah—a “blast” of the trumpet—meaning to “wake up!”, or “be alert!”

2nd) This sound is called Sh’varim—“short blasts” to be broken, humbled, ordered repentance.

3rd)This sound is called T’ruah—“Repeated short blasts”; an alarm; Get prepared!

4th)This sound is called Tekiah Hagadolah—“long tone”, it’s the Last Trump. Denotes Resurrection!

Again, you are arguing against scripture. I am not separating the tribulation from the wrath of God, just dividing it due to the timing of events. Jesus will return at the Last Trumpet, the 7th Trumpet. This is when we will be caught up to be with Him in the clouds.

1 Corinthians 15:52-53

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

It is at the blowing of the 7th Trumpet that the kingdoms of this world become His. This can only happen when the 7th Trumpet is blown. This IS the resurrection of His saints to be with Him. This IS when the corruptible must put on incorruption and the mortal put on immortality.

Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”

You have not shown where these two events cannot be one and the same. Is it because there are only four trumpets in the Feat of Trumpets that causes you not to believe they can be done at the same time? Do the numbers throw you off? You have to remember that the Feast of Trumpets are man blowing trumpets and the Trumpets in Revelation are angels blowing trumpets. The seventh trumpet blown by the angel can very well be at the same time the forth trumpet is blown by man.

Here is a simple definition of what is in 1 Corinthians 15:52 pertaining to the last trumpet. The Old English versions are the only version who calls it the last trump. Look the word up in your Greek dictionary.

Trumpet

G4536

σάλπιγξ

salpigx

1) a trumpet

[OneLight]

snip ...

As I make my way through this post, it is very obvious that you continue to insult me. Please stop posting in this manner. For one, it is against the ToS. It is also the last resort of someone who feels they have to demean another in a discussion or debate in order to promote their argument as having more weight or the correct meaning. You are above this.

[back2thebible]

look carefully the wise and the foolish virgins both had oil in their lamps at the start of the story, they both had the Holy Spirit

At your request, I went back to take a careful look. I do not see what you do. I see the foolish tell the wives that their lamps had gone out but why ought I to believe anything the foolish say? I see no reason to believe they ever had oil to begin with.

well you can believe what ever you want, the bible says they ALL trimmed their lamps, this is done while a lamp is lit, their plea was their lamps were going out, which would mean they were at one time LIT.............Its not that big of a deal unless you really need the oil to be representing of the Holy Spirit

If you look at all three parables, the story line is about being prepared, and doing the will of God, and being faithful

none of the parables are about some Christians having the Holy Spirit and some who do not

[back2thebible]

snip ...

As I make my way through this post, it is very obvious that you continue to insult me. Please stop posting in this manner. For one, it is against the ToS. It is also the last resort of someone who feels they have to demean another in a discussion or debate in order to promote their argument as having more weight or the correct meaning. You are above this.

The First Resurrection does not happen until Jesus Returns,

Matthew 27:52-53

King James Version (KJV)

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Try reading very carefully and slowly,,

Graves were opened.....ask yourself Who opened those graves ? None other than Almighty God

Many bodies that were dead saints arose --came to life ...,ask yourself what is it called when dead bodies come back to life-it is resurrection

And came out of the grave after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Ask yourself what do you call it when God opens graves , brings the dead saints back to life so that they can appear to many people

but to you it is not a resurrection because it is not titled labeled as one even though it is

You continue to show that you place your assumed opinion higher and more valuable than any other source availble , I have provided you with an abundance of fact and evidence supported by the Jewish culture about the trumpet calls what they are for and why & when they are used

The Feast of Trumpets uses a pattern that will include each of 4 sounds of the shofar

the Feast of Tabernacles

1st) This sound is called Tekiah—a “blast” of the trumpet—meaning to “wake up!”, or “be alert!”

2nd) This sound is called Sh’varim—“short blasts” to be broken, humbled, ordered repentance.

3rd)This sound is called T’ruah—“Repeated short blasts”; an alarm; Get prepared!

4th)This sound is called Tekiah Hagadolah—“long tone”, it’s the Last Trump. Denotes Resurrection!

and links as well to help you

http://www.gotquesti...st-trumpet.html

You choose not to study the Jewish culture and traditions like the Feast of Trumpets which is exactly where the trumpet calls in scripture come from , Marv tried to help you , but you won't allow any help , your pride is preventing you from receiving info that can help you.

You may beleive whatever you wish even though you misinterpret scripture , and now you twist my words into something that never happened, I can say that you insulted me and you are as quilty as you want to say that I am ,but I unlike you don't look to fault people; everyone makes mistakes, it is part of the learning process , it is better to just admit when you are mistaken and learn from it it is not a big deal. I have noticed many times that you have told other people that they have misunderstood scripture and you take issue with others who don't believe as you do ,perhaps when you do it , it should be considered insulting them , I went the extra length to make sure you realized that i was not insukting you but now you have shown to do exactly what you accuse me of.

James 2:13

¹³ because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

one could easily say the resurrection began with Lazarus if thats the direction your heading, we see Paul teaching the Thessalonians that the first resurrection had not yet accured, you do realize this right?

[OneLight]

The First Resurrection does not happen until Jesus Returns,

Matthew 27:52-53

King James Version (KJV)

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Tell me, how do you see the verse in Revelation I posted in comparison of what you post? I am well aware of what is in Matthew. Which of the two scripture say it is the First Resurrection?

Revelation 20:4-6

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

As I said, scripture speaks for itself.

[gdemoss]

look carefully the wise and the foolish virgins both had oil in their lamps at the start of the story, they both had the Holy Spirit

At your request, I went back to take a careful look. I do not see what you do. I see the foolish tell the wives that their lamps had gone out but why ought I to believe anything the foolish say? I see no reason to believe they ever had oil to begin with.

well you can believe what ever you want, the bible says they ALL trimmed their lamps, this is done while a lamp is lit, their plea was their lamps were going out, which would mean they were at one time LIT.............Its not that big of a deal unless you really need the oil to be representing of the Holy Spirit

If you look at all three parables, the story line is about being prepared, and doing the will of God, and being faithful

none of the parables are about some Christians having the Holy Spirit and some who do not

The word for trimmed means to make ready or garnish. Thank you for provoking me to a deeper look into this. There is no indication that they were working and in proper order before the time they sought to make them ready and found they did not have what they needed to continue. No matter. No dogma here.

[OneLight]

The First Resurrection does not happen until Jesus Returns,

Matthew 27:52-53

King James Version (KJV)

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Tell me, how do you see the verse in Revelation I posted in comparison of what you post? I am well aware of what is in Matthew. Which of the two scripture say it is the First Resurrection?

Revelation 20:4-6

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

As I said, scripture speaks for itself.

I only merely point out that scripture gives much detail of a resurrection having happened , that's all , people often think that things have to have very specific words before they accept what the scripture says,,example Most Christians accept that Jesus Is God in the human flesh form ,,,but even though there is an abundance of scripture that teaches us this there are some folks who argue that because Jesus did not say "I am God" in those words that he could not be God

Yes scripture does speak for itself ,what happened in Matthew 27 is a resurrection , no denying that, can't escape that reality,, that is why it is very important to know and fully understand what the Jewish culture and understandings of what the writer is saying and what they call the process of first fruits , and why it is important to learn and understand the significance of what the Feast of Trumpets is , it is very important to know this ,as they follow Jewish culture and methods not American cultures.

No matter what culture it is, if it goes against scripture, it is wrong. Point I was making, and you still have not answered, is that the First Resurrection is after Jesus returns, according to scripture. I don't "fill in the gaps" with personal belief or cultural beliefs. I have His Spirit to teach me.

[OneLight]

Revelation 20:4-6

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

As I said, scripture speaks for itself.

Just one more thing I would like to ask you to notice and give some longer thought to

Notice in Rev 20 that you post ,,notice that it speaks exclusively of those people who came out of the great tribulation ,,focusing on those who rejected the mark of the beast and number of hos name ...notice that it does not even slightly mentioned any of the millions upon millions of Christians that died during the last 2000+ years, no mention at all saying anything such as ....including all the other saints of previous generations that served their entire lives in the ministry....or anything similar

No not even close , it only speaks of saints who had to contend with the mark of the beast , the strongest likelihood is because that Rev 20 scripture does not pertain to any saints except those that had to deal with the great trib and the mark of the beast , the first resurrection of people who had to live during the great trib, if a Christian dies today they will not have to deal with the great trib and will not be a part of the resurrection after it , they will be among those who came to earth with Jesus when he returns , they were part of the rapture that occurred before the great trib began , there has to be a very good reason why the Christians of previous generations are not mentioned in Rev 20

I understand this all too well. Yet, what does scripture say? That is all I ask.

People read scripture all the time and "fill in the gaps", including me. We are not talking about what we think or believe, but what scripture says. That is all that really matters. Though we come up with our own understanding when scripture leaves room, our understanding never overrides scripture.

[~candice~]

Sorry but that is not at all how it was intended

If I intended to call someone that , that is what I would say ,but to say that type of thing is not needed .All I meant was to say notice that it is resurrection and to notice that , and not disregard it just because the text does not outwardly call it resurrection

No one knows how you "intended" it. I do know how it comes across, and your wording was ill-advised.

It is both fruitless and unwise to try and strong-arm someone into accepting a different eschatological view than the one they already hold. No one ever changes their views in a debate like this especially when they use these kind of tactics. You virtually guarantee that they will not consider anything you say past the first embedded barb. If your intent is to change someones mind:

You're doing it wrong.

I have a very successful progress with winning over people when I do it in person , just in this forum where I encounter people who want to try and beat me down and I don't succumb to degrading talk

Hi Daniel.

These words make me a little nervous because it seems like the goal is to "win" someone to how you see things. That really isn't how I would approach fringe issues like this. Firstly, our goal is to win people to Christ. But once they are there, they are on our side! It isn't so much about making people believe the way we do, but standing alongside them and sharing what you believe God has revealed in His Word. So it isn't that we are guru's, and we should wrestle people until they come around to our theology on fringe issues.

I hope you can see why I think there is a misfocus here?

[~candice~]

Sorry but that is not at all how it was intended

If I intended to call someone that , that is what I would say ,but to say that type of thing is not needed .All I meant was to say notice that it is resurrection and to notice that , and not disregard it just because the text does not outwardly call it resurrection

No one knows how you "intended" it. I do know how it comes across, and your wording was ill-advised.

It is both fruitless and unwise to try and strong-arm someone into accepting a different eschatological view than the one they already hold. No one ever changes their views in a debate like this especially when they use these kind of tactics. You virtually guarantee that they will not consider anything you say past the first embedded barb. If your intent is to change someones mind:

You're doing it wrong.

I have a very successful progress with winning over people when I do it in person , just in this forum where I encounter people who want to try and beat me down and I don't succumb to degrading talk

Hi Daniel.

These words make me a little nervous because it seems like the goal is to "win" someone to how you see things. That really isn't how I would approach fringe issues like this. Firstly, our goal is to win people to Christ. But once they are there, they are on our side! It isn't so much about making people believe the way we do, but standing alongside them and sharing what you believe God has revealed in His Word. So it isn't that we are guru's, and we should wrestle people until they come around to our theology on fringe issues.

I hope you can see why I think there is a misfocus here?

Sorry if you misunderstand , I not trying to win anything as you may think , I do research and share what I find , when people have facts that are verifiable and provable they get my vote, it is not a game ,but as in any debate discussion when there are opposing views it is important to bring ALL the facts , not just the ones that favor a persons preference.

If it was only as easy as you say it should be ,

when people want to say they are right and I am wrong I challenge them to prove it , if they don't want to then they should just leave it alone, much of the time here some people want to say they're right and others are wrong but are not willing to prove anything.

What happened to edifying one another , not much of that in these topics , there should be love and lifting one another up and not accusations of people that share provable facts

I agree with what you say , but unfortunately there are those who feel they need to prove their right and I am wrong and its based on how they interpret scripture and not focused on what it should be focused on.

I guess I don't see the need to reply in kind. Just because someone conveys the idea they are right and you are wrong doesn't necessarily mean that we should respond in the same tone and create a debate or a battle of the wits.

I believe that Jesus' resurrection is a historical event that gives us hope for our own resurrection. It also gives us assurance. Given that assurance I am much more likely (especially as I get older) to be content studying but not having all the answers. Some issues of eschatology I find hard to reconcile and it keeps me humble in how I discuss the topic with others. For reference, I do believe in a post tribulation rapture, though I acknowledge difficulties defending that point of view just as much as there are difficulties in the pre trib position.

God bless,

Candice