Womanhood

[AmateurPoet03]

Biblically speaking, women were created as a help meet to their husbands. That is found right there in Genesis, and the Bible also states that the man was not created for the woman, but the woman for the man. It also says that the head of every woman is the man, the head of man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God. We all have God-given roles, and Satan teaches people to rebel against them.

yes...but that is not all that scripture has to say about women and men

How do you reconcile this verse: There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28

You cannot make a doctrine on one verse and say I don't provide scripture (although no one else has ever made that point because it is simply not true)...the Bible says we are

all one in Christ and does say women should respect their husbands BUT men are to love their wives in a sacrificial way as Christ did for the church

I have never read your thoughts on that...or the fact that we are all one in Christ and not identified by sex or race...

I think you are misusing that verse. Clearly we still have men and women and there are still roles for men and women. The verse doesn't imply that God doesn't see our gender. In context, the verse is about the fact that now (since the mystery has been revealed, and the wall between the Jews and Gentiles torn down) everyone has access to the same grace by faith, the same salvation. There is now no distinction (in terms of accessing that covenant) between Jews and non Jews, or even males and females. It has nothing to do with the abolition of gender roles.

Can someone share the chapter or passage in its entirety? Please...?

Children of God

²³ Before the coming of this faith,^[j] we were held in custodyunder the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. ²⁴ So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. ²⁵ Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

²⁶ So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith,²⁷ for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. ²⁸ There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. ²⁹ If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Nothing to do with the cessation of gender roles!

Agree with you there. This is a passage about being justified in faith, being children of God.

[Sevenseas]

Biblically speaking, women were created as a help meet to their husbands. That is found right there in Genesis, and the Bible also states that the man was not created for the woman, but the woman for the man. It also says that the head of every woman is the man, the head of man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God. We all have God-given roles, and Satan teaches people to rebel against them.

yes...but that is not all that scripture has to say about women and men

How do you reconcile this verse: There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28

You cannot make a doctrine on one verse and say I don't provide scripture (although no one else has ever made that point because it is simply not true)...the Bible says we are

all one in Christ and does say women should respect their husbands BUT men are to love their wives in a sacrificial way as Christ did for the church

I have never read your thoughts on that...or the fact that we are all one in Christ and not identified by sex or race...

I think you are misusing that verse. Clearly we still have men and women and there are still roles for men and women. The verse doesn't imply that God doesn't see our gender. In context, the verse is about the fact that now (since the mystery has been revealed, and the wall between the Jews and Gentiles torn down) everyone has access to the same grace by faith, the same salvation. There is now no distinction (in terms of accessing that covenant) between Jews and non Jews, or even males and females. It has nothing to do with the abolition of gender roles.

No Candice. That was not what I said. I asked Butero to reconcile the verse in context with his comments. There is a lot more to being a woman than obeying your husband. Butero does not seem

to believe there are very many virtuous women. There are many threads filled with his comments regarding women and this is just another thread with that theme. I am sure you must have

read one or two...there are many.

I know what the verse and the passage are about...I know God does not see us as gender neutral and I did not say He did. Please note my comment was not 'God does not see our gender'

as you suggest. Butero believes we must follow certain OT Law...especially women..my comments are in keeping with an ongoing discussion and covers a number of threads....

Butero takes verses from one passage and inserts it into another...I was addressing him with scripture as he uses it in order to make a point..I suppose at this point it won't matter as the point I was trying to make has now been lost

If I had thought the verse meant we have no gender to God, I certainly would not have asked him how that verse would be reconciled with his comments..it seems he does not consider women

other than in the context in which he wrote.

Hope that clears it up...there is no confusion on my part regarding the meaning of the text.

[GoldenEagle]

Biblically speaking, women were created as a help meet to their husbands. That is found right there in Genesis, and the Bible also states that the man was not created for the woman, but the woman for the man. It also says that the head of every woman is the man, the head of man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God. We all have God-given roles, and Satan teaches people to rebel against them.

yes...but that is not all that scripture has to say about women and men

How do you reconcile this verse: There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28

You cannot make a doctrine on one verse and say I don't provide scripture (although no one else has ever made that point because it is simply not true)...the Bible says we are

all one in Christ and does say women should respect their husbands BUT men are to love their wives in a sacrificial way as Christ did for the church

I have never read your thoughts on that...or the fact that we are all one in Christ and not identified by sex or race...

I think you are misusing that verse. Clearly we still have men and women and there are still roles for men and women. The verse doesn't imply that God doesn't see our gender. In context, the verse is about the fact that now (since the mystery has been revealed, and the wall between the Jews and Gentiles torn down) everyone has access to the same grace by faith, the same salvation. There is now no distinction (in terms of accessing that covenant) between Jews and non Jews, or even males and females. It has nothing to do with the abolition of gender roles.

Can someone share the chapter or passage in its entirety? Please...?

Sure here it is sister.

Galatians 3

Justification by Faith

3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth,^[a] before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you^[b] as crucified? ² This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? ³ Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? ⁴ Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

⁵ Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— ⁶ just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”^{[c] 7} Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. ⁸ And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”^{[d] 9} So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

The Law Brings a Curse

¹⁰ For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed iseveryone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”^{[e] 11} But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”^{[f] 12} Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”^[g]

¹³ Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”^[h]), ¹⁴ that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The Changeless Promise

¹⁵ Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it isconfirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. ¹⁶ Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,”^[i] who is Christ. ¹⁷ And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ,^[j] that it should make the promise of no effect. ¹⁸ For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Purpose of the Law

¹⁹ What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. ²⁰ Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

²¹ Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. ²² But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. ²³ But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. ²⁴ Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. ²⁵ But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Sons and Heirs

²⁶ For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. ²⁷ For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. ²⁸ There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. ²⁹ And if you areChrist’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

[AmateurPoet03]

No Candice. That was not what I said. I asked Butero to reconcile the verse in context with his comments. There is a lot more to being a woman than obeying your husband. Butero does not seem

to believe there are very many virtuous women. There are many threads filled with his comments regarding women and this is just another thread with that theme. I am sure you must have

read one or two...there are many.

I know what the verse and the passage are about...I know God does not see us as gender neutral and I did not say He did. Please note my comment was not 'God does not see our gender'

as you suggest. Butero believes we must follow certain OT Law...especially women..my comments are in keeping with an ongoing discussion and covers a number of threads....

Butero takes verses from one passage and inserts it into another...I was addressing him with scripture as he uses it in order to make a point..I suppose at this point it won't matter as the point I was trying to make has now been lost

If I had thought the verse meant we have no gender to God, I certainly would not have asked him how that verse would be reconciled with his comments..it seems he does not consider women

other than in the context in which he wrote.

Hope that clears it up...there is no confusion on my part regarding the meaning of the text.

SevenSeas,

The world around us still carries many a demeaning perception of women and men alike. Even those who are not yet born fall subject to scrutiny. Please do not let the words of others upset you and know that you are a cherished creation of the one true God.

[Guest ninhao]

No Candice. That was not what I said. I asked Butero to reconcile the verse in context with his comments. There is a lot more to being a woman than obeying your husband. Butero does not seem

to believe there are very many virtuous women. There are many threads filled with his comments regarding women and this is just another thread with that theme. I am sure you must have

read one or two...there are many.

I know what the verse and the passage are about...I know God does not see us as gender neutral and I did not say He did. Please note my comment was not 'God does not see our gender'

as you suggest. Butero believes we must follow certain OT Law...especially women..my comments are in keeping with an ongoing discussion and covers a number of threads....

Butero takes verses from one passage and inserts it into another...I was addressing him with scripture as he uses it in order to make a point..I suppose at this point it won't matter as the point I was trying to make has now been lost

If I had thought the verse meant we have no gender to God, I certainly would not have asked him how that verse would be reconciled with his comments..it seems he does not consider women

other than in the context in which he wrote.

Hope that clears it up...there is no confusion on my part regarding the meaning of the text.

From reading many of sister Sevenseas posts there is no confusion that she is attempting to make men and women genderless. She isn't. I would consider it man of straw or misunderstanding to think otherwise.

[enoob57]

well the children love's ya oceans galore....

[Sevenseas]

Oh my ~ LOL! enoob...oceans galore eh? you know I'm chuckling at that one now...

Poet....Thank you....SevenSeas,

The world around us still carries many a demeaning perception of women and men alike. Even those who are not yet born fall subject to scrutiny. Please do not let the words of others upset you and know that you are a cherished creation of the one true God.

I think you are right...there is plenty of man basing along with the woman bashing...and right about the unborn as well...take a look a China for example...I do get somewhat upset from time to time (no, me?)

My upbringing was not the way I see some people representing either sex, but especially women, in these threads....my dad never put women down like that

ninhao...thanks...but it was a misunderstanding because Candice was absolutely right in what she said...the verses do mean what she says...and I can see how what I wrote could be misunderstood

[~candice~]

Oh my ~ LOL! enoob...oceans galore eh? you know I'm chuckling at that one now...

Poet....Thank you....SevenSeas,

The world around us still carries many a demeaning perception of women and men alike. Even those who are not yet born fall subject to scrutiny. Please do not let the words of others upset you and know that you are a cherished creation of the one true God.

I think you are right...there is plenty of man basing along with the woman bashing...and right about the unborn as well...take a look a China for example...I do get somewhat upset from time to time (no, me?)

My upbringing was not the way I see some people representing either sex, but especially women, in these threads....my dad never put women down like that

ninhao...thanks...but it was a misunderstanding because Candice was absolutely right in what she said...the verses do mean what she says...and I can see how what I wrote could be misunderstood

ok great! We understand .

So what does that verse add to this discussion? Perhaps that is where I am confused.

[Guest Butero]

Biblically speaking, women were created as a help meet to their husbands. That is found right there in Genesis, and the Bible also states that the man was not created for the woman, but the woman for the man. It also says that the head of every woman is the man, the head of man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God. We all have God-given roles, and Satan teaches people to rebel against them.

yes...but that is not all that scripture has to say about women and men

How do you reconcile this verse: There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28

You cannot make a doctrine on one verse and say I don't provide scripture (although no one else has ever made that point because it is simply not true)...the Bible says we are

all one in Christ and does say women should respect their husbands BUT men are to love their wives in a sacrificial way as Christ did for the church

I have never read your thoughts on that...or the fact that we are all one in Christ and not identified by sex or race...

This is too easy. When it comes to salvation, there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female. This doesn't mean we don't have distinct roles, and that the woman wasn't created to be a help meet to her husband. Christ did give himself for the church in a sacrificial way, but he is still our Lord.

[Guest Butero]

OK Fez, at WB I will refrain from using that term, but I hope others can control their impulses to bring it back up again to demonize and isolate me? As for women being CEO's and Directors of Companies, I am saying that there is nothing in Proverbs 31 that indicates they would be an example of a virtuous woman. Biblically speaking, women were created as a help meet to their husbands. That is found right there in Genesis, and the Bible also states that the man was not created for the woman, but the woman for the man. It also says that the head of every woman is the man, the head of man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God. We all have God-given roles, and Satan teaches people to rebel against them.

As to the women CEO's and Directors comment... So you're saying that a leader in a company, organization, church, etc. that happensto be a woman is not showing Biblical viritues espoused in the Bible and in particular Proverbs 31?

"Help meet"... Interesting term. Are you a fan of the Michael and Debbie Pearl? Curious.

Once again IMO it seems like another thread (in particular regarding the role of women, abuse, and/or legalism) being monopolized and/or derailed by one member's opinions... Perhaps it's just me?

I have never heard of Michael and Debbie Pearl. I use a KJV Bible, and it says, "And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone. I will make him an help meet for him." Genesis 2:18. I never heard of Bill Gothard before you brought him up, and I have never heard of these people. It could just be that we all use the KJV Bible, and have come to similar conclusions? I am not a fan of anyone in particular.

I am saying that women who are in those roles, especially married women, have left the purpose God created them for. Women were created to be a help meet to their husband, not a competitor in the work place. Wives are supposed to be one with their husband, not an independent person living in the same house.