7 trumpets=7bowls=7seals

[J-Andy]

Have you considered that Ephraim was a man who became a tribe whose name was ascribed to the whole Northern Kingdom and even beyond?

Moses could very well represent the law while Aaron the prophets, as it is written, And Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

In the transfiguration Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus bearing him witness. The law and the prophets.

Judah is my lawgiver says the Lord. Blessed are you when you are persecuted like the prophets who came before you says Jesus unto his disciples at the Mount.

Why can it not be those who are of the law as one witness and those who prophesy by the spirit as the second witness?

If we consider the singularity of the words used to be our problem then shouldn't we consider that bride is singular in number though we be many?

I confess, I do not have this all figured out. I do not bring 'a word' from God. Only questions that cause me to pause and reflect.

Peace in Christ.

I have mediated in my heart over that also in the past, and haven't ditched the possibility, or the possibility that the 2 witnesses are 2 individuals:

(Isa 43:10) Ye are My witnesses, saith the LORD, and My servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He; before Me there was no God formed, neither shall any be after Me.

(Isa 43:11) I, even I, am the LORD; and beside Me there is no saviour.

(Isa 43:12) I have declared, and I have saved, and I have announced, and there was no strange god among you; therefore ye are My witnesses, saith the LORD, and I am God.

Yes, there's Israel (Ephraim) and Judah. Ephraim was exiled to the nations, and has never returned, yet God promised Israel (Ephraim) that they would be returned to the land together with the house of Judah, and the two sticks would become one stick in the hand of Ephraim:

(Eze 37:19) say into them: Thus saith the Lord GOD: Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his companions; and I will put them unto him together with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in My hand.

The prophecies surrounding the restoration of Ephraim were quoted by Peter and Paul in reference to the Gentiles:

(Rom 9:24) whom He also called, not only us, of Jews, but also of the nations?

(Rom 9:25) As He also says in Hosea, "I will call those not My people, My people; and those not beloved, Beloved."

(Rom 9:26) And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them. "You are not My people; there they shall be called sons of the living God."

That prophecy quoted by Paul in its O.T context referred to Ephraim - the Northern tribes.

So I don't ditch what you are saying, nor do I ditch the fact that of all the Israelites in Ehypt, only 2 were given power over the waters, to turn them to blood, and they were also the 2 chosen to be God's witnesses to Pharaoh.

When the two kingdoms were divided with two kings, the areas were often referred to by the two largest tribes; Ephraim and Judah. Ephraim had the bulk of 10 tribes (assuming Joseph's children, Manassah and Ephraim and split separately for 13 tribes), and that was only initially. So Ephraim was also called the Kingdom of Israel because it had more tribes living there. Judah had the tribe of Judah, Benjamin and most of Levi. As time went on, and due to the corruption of the Northern Kingdom, some of each of the 10 tribes moved south to Judea (the name of the southern Kingdom was Judea). When the Northern Kingdom was scattered thru multiple attacks by Assyria, some more of the 10 tribes escaped by running to Judea.

When Babylon captured Judea, and carried off the inhabitants, they captured all 12 tribes living in Judea. Babylon called the captured people 'Jews' as they were from Judea.

When the Jews were allowed to return to the land after 70 years, they were in touch with some of the scattered from Assyria, and some of all 12 tribes returned to the land of Israel to rebuild the Temple. They made a sacrifice for all 12 tribes, and for that sacrifice each tribe had to provide and animal for sacrifice for their own tribe.

All 12 tribes are referred to as the children of Israel or the nation of Israel. In Hebrew, the word for nation is 'goy' and the word for nations is 'goyim' which of course is plural. So the nation of Israel would be the goy of Yisrael. In Hebrew, there is no word for gentile. Gentile means not-Jewish. To determine in scripture if the word goy(im) is referring to nation(s) which are not children of Israel/Jews, it must be done by context.

So, when the scriptures refers to the nations, that is not referring to Ephraim. Ephraim is a tribe of israel. Israel is one nation, not nations. The term Jews includes Ephraim, so the nations refers to people who are not children of Israel in those statements.

This is especially clear because it was prophesied that the non-Israel/Gentiles would be drawn to the Messiah. Gentiles, non-Jews, who have come to believe on Jesus are a fulfillment of prophesy from the OT. In the book of Acts, the Jewish apostles discussed what are the requirements for Gentiles who have received the Holy Spirit. They studied the OT and saw that Gentiles were to come to the Messiah. They knew that the children of Israel would be united in the land and the children of Israel were to believe on the Messiah, so if the Gentiles were actually Ephraim, there would have been no discussion.

Today, the children of Israel are returning to the land of Israel. All 12 tribes. So the former Northern tribes and the former Southern tribes of the divided Kingdoms are all scattered and are today returning. Some of the groups returning know they were from the Northern tribes. They know their identity as it has been passed down thru the generations. Some are returning from India. Some from Africa. Some were in China. And some in the middle east.

Deut 32:21

‘They have made Me jealous with what is not God; They have provoked Me to anger with their idols. So I will make them jealous with those who are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation,

Deut 32:21 talks about the time when the Gentiles would come to the Lord. Speaking to the children of Israel, God told them that He would form a people who are not a people. In scripture, a people refers to an ethnic group, a group from a common ancestor. Also usually called a nation, as a nation is a people group. So these people who are not a people refers to diverse people, from every tribe, tongue and nation. These people who are not single people group, is the church, made up of people from every tribe, tongue and nation, brought together to form a new nation/people group called the saints of God, or the Church. It is a foolish nation because it is not really a nation of people of a common ancestor but a diverse group no one would see as one, but God made this foolish nation. And this foolish nation is to make Israel jealous.

(Hos 1:9) And He said, Call his name Not-my-people. For you are not My people, and I will not be for you.

(Hos 1:10) Yet the number of the sons of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered. And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them, You are not My people, there it shall be said to them, You are the sons of the living God.

(Hos 1:11) Then the sons of Judah and the sons of Israel shall be gathered together, and shall set over themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land. For great shall be the day of Jezreel.

I hear you, but in its context, the above prophecy was given by God to Hosea after God had told him to take a wife of adultery, and that wife represented not the non-Israelite nations (or 'non-Jews'), but the Northern Israelite tribes:

(Hos 1:1) The Word of Jehovah that came to Hosea, the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel.

(Hos 1:2) The beginning of Jehovah speaking by Hosea. And Jehovah said to Hosea, Go, take to yourself a wife of adultery and children of adultery. For the land has utterly gone lusting away from Jehovah.

(Hos 1:3) So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim, who conceived and bore him a son.

(Hos 1:4) And Jehovah said to him, Call his name God Will Sow. For still in a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel on the house of Jehu, and will cause the kingdom of the house of Israel to cease.

(Hos 1:5) And it shall be, at that day I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel.

(Hos 1:6) And she conceived again and bore a daughter. And God said to him, Call her name No-mercy, for I will no more have mercy on the house of Israel. But I will utterly take them away.

(Hos 1:7) But I will have mercy on the house of Judah, and will save them by Jehovah their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.

(Hos 1:8) And when she had weaned No-mercy she conceived and bore a son.

(Hos 1:9) And He said, Call his name Not-my-people. For you are not My people, and I will not be for you.

(Hos 1:10) Yet the number of the sons of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered. And it shall be, in the place where it was said to them, You are not My people, there it shall be said to them, You are the sons of the living God.

(Hos 1:11) Then the sons of Judah and the sons of Israel shall be gathered together, and shall set over themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land. For great shall be the day of Jezreel.

It is this prophecy which both Peter and Paul applied to Gentiles, and in its context it referred to Israel's Northern tribes.

Also, Jospeh said of Ephraim:

(Gen 48:17) And Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand on the head of Ephraim, and it was evil in his eyes. And he held up his father's hand to remove it from Ephraim's head to Manasseh's head.

(Gen 48:18) And Joseph said to his father, Not so, my father. For this is the first-born. Put your right hand on his head.

(Gen 48:19) And his father refused and said, I know, my son, I know. He also shall become a people, and he also shall be great, but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he is, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

That Hebrew word for "nations" is again "goy". It was Ephraim - specifically, in its context, referring to the 10 Northern ribes - upon whom God first had no mercy, and then promised He would again have mercy, and whom God called "not my people" and then promised He would call them "My people" and "the sons of the living God".

In its context, the prophecy never referred to the many Gentile nations - and yet Paul and Peter apply it to the Gentile church.

[Sevenseas]

uh huh...yet she has presented numerous such dreams and visions and I have had far more to do with her posts than yours....the problem is, that people who are NOT chronologically aligned with her

are saying 'you go girl' and that is very worrisome (no one actually said you go girl...I'm just summing it up) No one does understand the Revelation given to John completely and my point is it is unfolding

and we will know when we need to know...like everything else.....you may not be familar with the other site I was addressing...so you may not agree with all of my concerns ..

Sorry. Now I understand. I was going to ask you for that thread and that link but .. no point in reading something that I know will leave me with a heavy heart. I've heard too much false doctrine/s about dreams, visions etc and had enough.

.. I have learned them the very hard way. I will say this once here and then not again. What will be the greatest threat to believers...and it has got a good start...is deception...they will not know an evil spirt seducing them from the Holy Spirit. They do not understand what satan does now and what he will do when God allows him.

I will not say this again.

Yes. I think that is already happening. It's not, "they will not know'" it's already, "they don't know". And they don't care what you say. I know lots of 'prophets' and I've heard so many of their 'visions'. People I know well. Relatives. It's sickening. They don't care what you say, just as the Israelites preferred the words of their false prophets. It's a losing battle fighting them one on one, but it's good you post what you post here, so anyone who reads can see and hopefully have their eyes opened.

Some of us have been through tribulation right here in North America...the physical experience may not be the same, but the spiritual one is. We are tried in the fiery furnace if God desires it for

His purposes...My love for God now is very different than when I first gave Him my entire life....things did not turn out the way I planned, but eternity should be written on our hearts and our hearts

should have their treasure in heaven...and no, I don't live with that thought in mind all the time...but it is there

It's hard. My heart goes out to you. I recognize a lover of Biblical truth when I see one (it's really refreshing). I will pray for you during the course of tomorrow and before I turn in tonight, for the comfort and upliftment of the Holy Spirit.

You have a great weekend there in North America. Remember that Jesus came to give you a chance to live life abundantly too. Not just seriousness all the time, but fun and laughter, and a lot of it, because you need it in your world, no matter where you are. The time will come when the two witnesses will propesy "clothed in sackloth", and then no-one will be laughing, except those who have gone up and up and are watching tghe suffering of others with glee.

Well Guest, thank you. In a manner of speaking we are all just guests..and thank you for praying and yes, I love to laugh actually...love a sense of humor....I'm in a 'holding' pattern but start to want

to 'ask'...again...it's been quite a while since I did, but our God is very patient and works us in to His plans in His timing...however small a part that may be, He nonetheless has a purpose in each of

us...we can only pray it is to His glory and not of our own making. I just really don't care....some of us are here just to acknowledge He is God ...who knows what part we play in what do not see, at this

moment, more of than what God allows

[back2thebible]

Ok, so tonight I was reading the book of revelations when all the sudden it started jumping out at me.... I noticed that after the 7 trumpets the whole thing starts all over again! Right before the 7th trumpet the "2 witnesses" are resurrected and taken up through the clouds, then AT the 7th trumpet blast there are lightenings and earthquakes and great hail and the temple of God is opened up in the heaven, which all describes perfectly the Lord's coming, but then....at verse 12 it starts all over again, and goes into the bowl judgments in verse 16. What I noticed is that the 7 trumpets and the 7 bowl judgments describe each other almost the same! For example; trumpets 2 & 3 describe water turning blood red and bitter, bowls 2&3 describe waters turning blood red and bitter, trumpet 4 = heavens struck, bowl 4= sun scorches people, trumpet 5= locusts that sting for 5 months and cause pain along with darkness, bowl 5= darkness and pain from sores, trumpet 6= 4 angels from Euphrates river are released to kill a third of mankind with an army of 200 million, bowl 6= Euphrates river dries up and spirits like frogs come out of the mouths of the dragon, false prophet, and beast, they go out and gather nations to battle at Armageddon, trumpet 7= kingdom of God proclaimed, lightening, earthquakes, hail, bowl 7= loud voice "It is done!" thunder, lightening, earthquakes and giant hail. I also noticed that the seals line up with the trumpets and the bowls as well, the 6th seal = cosmic disturbances, sun becomes blackened and the moon becomes like blood, then the sky receeds like a scroll and the mountains are removed, people hide themselves in the caves from the wrath of God, then it goes on to describe the multitude the John sees that have come from the Great Tribulation, then the 7th seal happens and there are thunder and lightening and an earthquake. Something else I noticed that stood out was that between trumpet 6 and 7 the 2 witnesses are described as being given the power by God to make the waters turn to blood, to cause droughts, to cause plagues which are eerily similar to the trumpet/bowl plagues....they do this for 3.5 years while being unharmed, then the beast is given power to make WAR with them, one thing that popped out was "how do you make war against 2 people??" it says the beast comes OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT to make war with them and overcome them! So, at this time the antichrist is revealed and he destroys these "2 witnesses"....then after 3.5 days they are resurrected (dead in Christ rise first) and a huge earthquake happens killing thousands then it goes IMMEDIATELY into the 7th trumpet which is lightening earthquakes, thunder and hail and God's coming. As I was piecing all this together I was quite shocked by all of it! It finally makes sense to me now! Maybe just maybe God GIVES the 2 witnesses (or us as the witnesses) the power that brings about the trumpets/bowls, they describe the same thing! I think since the waters turn blood red during trumpets and bowls 2 and 3 maybe that is one of the first things the witnesses do. I don't want to lead anyone astray, but these are the things that seemed to be revealed to me. I don't know if they are literal 2 witnesses or if they are the Jews and Christians. I don't have it all figured out yet, so I need to do some more reading and praying. I always did find it odd that the book of revelations seemed to repeat itself, it would say all the stuff about thunder and lightening and earthquakes and God coming to destroy, but then it would start all over again with more plagues! Sorry about not having paragraphs, my Enter key has stopped working . God bless!

Revelation is broken up into several parts, an outline of events, and then more specifics of the events. I'm not sure what part you are referring to because you only mention verses, and not the chapters. As far as the two witnesses, I see no reason to assert this represents more than two individuals. In Rev 11:8 it states that their bodies will lay in the street of the city, given the limited space how do you account for this being a mass group of people rather than just two?

I agree with wingnut the two witnesses are literal people, many have speculated they might be men from old testiment, such as Enoch or Elija or Moses

[wingnut-]

Wingnut, I am looking at the temple mentioned in Rev 11 in a spiritual sense & am thinking that the "holy city" may be the same.

Two problems with that, 1) The temple is physical, the a/c is going to enter it and defile it, this eliminates spiritual because he can't enter Christians (assuming that is your spiritual meaning. 2) in verse 8 it specifically says where Christ was crucified, there is no question where that happened. Also, this is not the only time Jerusalem is compared to Sodom and Egypt, check out Jude.

I do believe there will be a remnant that will stand in "the fullness of Christ" in the face of evil unparalled. I believe these are the manchild of Rev 12.

Not following that thought, just some believers represent the two witnesses, what scripture supports that?

Someone said that the manchild teaching was heresy and I have run across some very off the wall stuff being proclaimed as "manchild doctrine" in the past--- but the scripture speaks of the manchild & that should be studied out to see what it means.

I only know of one who will rule all the nations. The manchild doctrine is heresy, so I'm not going to get into it, nothing edifying about a false teaching.

[wingnut-]

I agree with wingnut the two witnesses are literal people, many have speculated they might be men from old testiment, such as Enoch or Elija or Moses

I personally believe it will be Enoch and Elijah, because neither of them died.

[wingnut-]

I am not really certain what you are saying ..I suppose it is in reference to the few scriptures that clearly say that we shall not all die but will be changed.....meeting Jesus in the air,

The great tribulation did not happen in the O.T. it is still yet future , Clearly scripture says that there will be Christians put to death in the coming great trib,

I agree that I don't know why anyone would want to be around for it.., but the thing is some insist that all Christians will and that not true , people who say that there will be protection for people who go through the great trib are simply mistaken , there is no protection that is why they are put to death , no protection , so I am not sure what you are saying, we either believe scripture or don't believe it and since it has never even suggested that there is anything other than believers being put to death we have no reason to think any protection is offered from God , trying to imply that 3 men survived the furnace that the same will happen during the coming great trib has no merit at all , as it does not apply .

i do not mean to deviate away from the OP intention though.

I agree about there being no protection, other than the two witnesses for 3 1/2 years, and the 144,000.

[bornagain2011]

Wow! I am gone for like 5 minutes and this is what happens! LOL! Just kidding!...my enter key is still not working on here, it works everywhere else though . Anyways, I don't claim to be a prophetess, or have prophetic dreams or visions. When I do have dreams or see things I am very doubtful and don't even really trust what I see. I am given lots of signs, either from the enemy or from God I do not know, so I never post them. I don't know if the 2 witnesses are us or 2 people, I just had a feeling they might be us. I don't know if the feeling is from the Holy Spirit or from the enemy. Time will tell. I know I have only been a Christian for 2 years, but I know how to test the spirits, I don't believe that I am so naïve that I would just believe anything. I have no problem just saying "I don't know". I did notice that not all of the trumpets/bowls lined up perfectly, for example, the 4th trumpet causes the sun, moon and stars to be struck so they don't give all their light, whereas the 4 bowl gives the sun power to scorch people, that seems kind of opposite. This is why it requires more study and leading of the Holy Spirit. I agree with what sevenseas said about people jumping the gun these days and saying everything is from God without testing the spirits. I have a really good story... but since my enter button is not working I don't really want to write some big long thing without any sort of paragraphs...I need paragraphs!!!! Ok anyways, in conclusion, I will continue to pray for spiritual discernment from God and I will keep studying His Word. I will heed the advice from my brothers and sisters in Christ and not jump the gun on stuff . God bless!

[wingnut-]

Wow! I am gone for like 5 minutes and this is what happens! LOL! Just kidding!...my enter key is still not working on here, it works everywhere else though . Anyways, I don't claim to be a prophetess, or have prophetic dreams or visions. When I do have dreams or see things I am very doubtful and don't even really trust what I see. I am given lots of signs, either from the enemy or from God I do not know, so I never post them. I don't know if the 2 witnesses are us or 2 people, I just had a feeling they might be us. I don't know if the feeling is from the Holy Spirit or from the enemy. Time will tell. I know I have only been a Christian for 2 years, but I know how to test the spirits, I don't believe that I am so naïve that I would just believe anything. I have no problem just saying "I don't know". I did notice that not all of the trumpets/bowls lined up perfectly, for example, the 4th trumpet causes the sun, moon and stars to be struck so they don't give all their light, whereas the 4 bowl gives the sun power to scorch people, that seems kind of opposite. This is why it requires more study and leading of the Holy Spirit. I agree with what sevenseas said about people jumping the gun these days and saying everything is from God without testing the spirits. I have a really good story... but since my enter button is not working I don't really want to write some big long thing without any sort of paragraphs...I need paragraphs!!!! Ok anyways, in conclusion, I will continue to pray for spiritual discernment from God and I will keep studying His Word. I will heed the advice from my brothers and sisters in Christ and not jump the gun on stuff . God bless!

No need to be sorry, was just trying to help by pointing out some scriptural problems with it.

[goldust59]

Wingnut, I am looking at the temple mentioned in Rev 11 in a spiritual sense & am thinking that the "holy city" may be the same.

Two problems with that, 1) The temple is physical, the a/c is going to enter it and defile it, this eliminates spiritual because he can't enter Christians (assuming that is your spiritual meaning. 2) in verse 8 it specifically says where Christ was crucified, there is no question where that happened. Also, this is not the only time Jerusalem is compared to Sodom and Egypt, check out Jude.

I do believe there will be a remnant that will stand in "the fullness of Christ" in the face of evil unparalled. I believe these are the manchild of Rev 12.

Not following that thought, just some believers represent the two witnesses, what scripture supports that?

Someone said that the manchild teaching was heresy and I have run across some very off the wall stuff being proclaimed as "manchild doctrine" in the past--- but the scripture speaks of the manchild & that should be studied out to see what it means.

I only know of one who will rule all the nations. The manchild doctrine is heresy, so I'm not going to get into it, nothing edifying about a false teaching.

Yes, there will be a physical temple, but the believers do make up the spiritual temple.

Jesus gives the overcomers the honor of ruling with Him-- "over the nations","with a rod of iron".

Revelation 2:25-27~ But that which ye have already, hold fast till I come. And he that overcomes, and keeps my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of My Father.

Sorry you feel that way about the manchild-- to me it is one of the most edifying things about the end time. I believe there will be a group of believers that will walk the earth in the fullness of Christ(Jesus Christ in TOTAL control of them--fully formed in them) and in the midst of the enemy they will do the "greater works" that Jesus spoke of. I am NOT saying that all that believe in Jesus will not be saved, but that not all of them will submit their life totally to Him and become part of this group. I hope to be found worthy of this honor. I can't wait to see it--- the overcomers of God in action, all over the world-- working with the fullness of the Spirit in them, just like Jesus did-- doing ONLY what He tells them to do! Glory to God!!

[wingnut-]

Yes, there will be a physical temple, but the believers do make up the spiritual temple.

I think where we differ is our sequencing of the events, and application of all scripture into the end times. The 2 witnesses I see as two individuals, Enoch and Elijah, because neither of them died and scripture tells us that it is appointed for man to die once, they still owe that death and I don't think it's coincidence that exactly two people never died. The sequence in this time is significant because after they prophesy for 3 1/2 years they are killed and lay in the street of the city where Christ was crucified, that would be Jerusalem. 3 1/2 days later they are resurrected and ascend to heaven, in chapter 11 the 7th trumpet takes place following the 2 witnesses, which would make them part of the first resurrection spoken of in Rev 20. Following that we come to chapter 12 with the woman and the dragon, if you look at that thread omegaman's post shows how I view that as well, Jesus is the man child and Israel is the woman. Scripture points right to this, and the dragon (satan) makes war in heaven at that time. This is while the marriage supper is occurring in my view, and that is why chapter 12 reveals that Michael and the angels are doing battle with the dragon, because Jesus is at the marriage supper with the saints of the first resurrection. The woman (Israel) was told by Jesus to flee in Matthew, this occurs because the dragon (satan) is cast down to the earth and things intensify, including Gods coming wrath.

Jesus gives the overcomers the honor of ruling with Him-- "over the nations","with a rod of iron".

Revelation 2:25-27~ But that which ye have already, hold fast till I come. And he that overcomes, and keeps my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of My Father.

In my view this event is speaking of the millennial kingdom, following the marriage supper Jesus and the saints return, and this is when He rules over the nations, from the temple.

Sorry you feel that way about the manchild-- to me it is one of the most edifying things about the end time. I believe there will be a group of believers that will walk the earth in the fullness of Christ(Jesus Christ in TOTAL control of them--fully formed in them) and in the midst of the enemy they will do the "greater works" that Jesus spoke of. I am NOT saying that all that believe in Jesus will not be saved, but that not all of them will submit their life totally to Him and become part of this group. I hope to be found worthy of this honor. I can't wait to see it--- the overcomers of God in action, all over the world-- working with the fullness of the Spirit in them, just like Jesus did-- doing ONLY what He tells them to do! Glory to God!!

The manchild doctrine I am talking about points to a completely different meaning of Rev 12, they don't see Jesus as the child spoken of, this doctrine is part of the deception. It is used to point to the a/c, so that is why I call it heresy, because it's intent is to lead people astray which will happen to many considering the things that take place during the latter days of the tribulation.

As for your interpretation regarding some believers being elevated over others, I don't see that in scripture, we are either His or we're not, we either are faithful or we're not. I think our difference is in the sequence, from what I gather of your description I see those you refer to as unqualified as the same individuals Jesus referenced in the parables of Matthew 25. They will not be part of the first resurrection in my view, and will miss out on the marriage supper and reigning in the millennial kingdom. It would help if you could give scriptural reference as to how you arrive at your conclusion, without it I'm uncertain as to the scripture you use to separate some believers from others.