The Sin That Leads to Death?

[Guest]

.... I believe in Jesus and the God of the Bible, and he doesn't. It's sad for me, but it's true, and my loyalty is to Jesus....

Amen~!

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 2 Corinthians 6:14

And Protect You Family

But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. 1 Timothy 5:8

[Guest shiloh357]

Bad company corrupts, it's more likely your cousin will drag you down than you pull him up. Sadly, sometimes we have to walk away from certain people and pray The Lord intervenes through someone else.

I agree with you. But John was telling us there's 1 sin we shouldn't even pray for. It could be that praying for it will simply attract the evil beings my cousin associates with to me, and it won't help him. This has been going on over 20 years. He likes being in touch with these beings. But me, I want nothing to do with them. And if he committed the sin John is referring to, I want nothing to do with him.

Reading through the thread I would certainly agree with that sin being blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, I know there are different opinions on what precisely that is considering we are not given a clear definition in scripture.

Sure we are. But people have made some wrong assumptions about what it is, and they read those assumptions into the text.

1 Blasphemy of the HS is only committed by Jesus' enemies. It is rooted in persistent and stubborn unbelief, which means that it cannot apply to those who are believers.

2 It is only committed during the earthly ministry of Jesus and was aimed solely at the works of Jesus, in particular the act of casting out demons.

3. It is never warned about in any of the epistles and we have no record in Scripture of a Christian committing that sin.

4. Blaspemy is essentially slander. It is done in full knowledge of the truth. The enemies of Jesus seem to know who Jesus is and it makes them hate Him all the more.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not unforgivable because it is such a heinous sin that God cannot forgive it. It is unforgivable because those who commit it are so irretrievably wicked that they will not and cannot repent and ask for forgiveness due to the hardness of their hearts. It is the persistent, stubborn, inpentitent rejection of the truth with both eyes open. When a person knows the truth and rejects it anyway, nothing else can be said to them. They refuse to repent and they hate the truth becasue it is the truth. They choose to die in continued separation from God and God gives them over to their sin. Blasphemhy of the Holy Spirit is the fruit of such irretrievable wickedness.

[JTC]

Hi Joe, It's interesting to me that you chose 1 Timothy 5:8 to quote, because that was one of the things my cousin did 23 years ago, and continues to do. But when I would try and tell him what he's doing wrong, his answers would be that he's a good husband and a wonderful father. But he's not. He hasn't worked in over 20 years, and so it's no wonder he never gave his wife even $5 for child support. And to tell you the truth, even if he had money when his son's were young, he still wouldn't have given any child support. In fact, once his sons grew up and started to work, he'd find excuses for why they should give him money. I hate to say this but he proved that sin begets sin, which keeps begetting more sin.

Shiloh, with all due respect I must disagree with some of what you said. The unforgivable sin isn't something that could only be committed during Jesus lifetime.

It also can only be committed by believers, not non believers. If that wasn't so then why is John telling the believers to not pray for a brother who is doing this. We read this in 1John 5:

16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

I can see from your answer that you and me disagree on what the unforgivable sin is. That's fine by me. I don't expect us to all agree on anything save one. And that is that Jesus is the Son of God who came down here and sacrificed His life for us.

Peace Brother,

John

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh, with all due respect I must disagree with some of what you said. The unforgivable sin isn't something that could only be committed during Jesus lifetime.

It also can only be committed by believers, not non believers. If that wasn't so then why is John telling the believers to not pray for a brother who is doing this. We read this in 1John 5:

16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

The first problem is that you are assuming that the "sin that leads to death" is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit mentioned earlier. There is no evidence from the Scriptures that this is what John is referring to.

And no, believers cannot and would not commit that sin. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is rooted in unbelief and rejection of Jesus. So how can a person who believes Jesus and has accepted Him, commit a sin based on rejecting Jesus??? You simply cannot make the case that believers can or would commit that sin. You may want to believe such and that is up to you, but you have to leave the realm of the Bible to do it. It is the result of your imagination and is not based on the truth of the Word of God. You won't find ONE Scripture to support your position.

[wingnut-]

Sure we are. But people have made some wrong assumptions about what it is, and they read those assumptions into the text.

1 Blasphemy of the HS is only committed by Jesus' enemies. It is rooted in persistent and stubborn unbelief, which means that it cannot apply to those who are believers.

2 It is only committed during the earthly ministry of Jesus and was aimed solely at the works of Jesus, in particular the act of casting out demons.

3. It is never warned about in any of the epistles and we have no record in Scripture of a Christian committing that sin.

4. Blaspemy is essentially slander. It is done in full knowledge of the truth. The enemies of Jesus seem to know who Jesus is and it makes them hate Him all the more.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not unforgivable because it is such a heinous sin that God cannot forgive it. It is unforgivable because those who commit it are so irretrievably wicked that they will not and cannot repent and ask for forgiveness due to the hardness of their hearts. It is the persistent, stubborn, inpentitent rejection of the truth with both eyes open. When a person knows the truth and rejects it anyway, nothing else can be said to them. They refuse to repent and they hate the truth becasue it is the truth. They choose to die in continued separation from God and God gives them over to their sin. Blasphemhy of the Holy Spirit is the fruit of such irretrievable wickedness.

Hey Shiloh,

I don't disagree with a lot of what you had to say, but at the same time I think you illustrated what I meant when I said not everyone agrees on what it is. The reason I say this is because you assert that it could only occur during Jesus' earthly ministry.

The problem with that is a) it's blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, not blasphemy of Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is here to this day. b) Jesus is not the only one who could cast out demons, the apostles could do it, as well as those they passed the gifts onto. Even today there are exorcisms performed, so it's still going on now.

That being the case, someone today could just as easily accuse someone of the same thing the Pharisees accused Jesus of, so it would still be possible in my view.

Btw, it's good to have you back on the boards.

[Guest shiloh357]

I don't disagree with a lot of what you had to say, but at the same time I think you illustrated what I meant when I said not everyone agrees on what it is. The reason I say this is because you assert that it could only occur during Jesus' earthly ministry.

The problem with that is a) it's blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, not blasphemy of Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is here to this day. b) Jesus is not the only one who could cast out demons, the apostles could do it, as well as those they passed the gifts onto. Even today there are exorcisms performed, so it's still going on now.

That being the case, someone today could just as easily accuse someone of the same thing the Pharisees accused Jesus of, so it would still be possible in my view.

The thing is, I am appealing to the context in which it appears, which is the ONLY context the Scripture offers.

1. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was committed by Jesus enemies who knew that Jesus was operating in the power of the Holy Spirit. Blasphemy is intentional, not accidental, so they knew what they were doing. Their hatred of Jesus was driving them to commit that sin. Precisely how does a follower of Jesus hate the Holy Spirit enough to blapsheme Him???

2. It is a sin rooted in unbelief, so how could a believer in Jesus commit a sin that is predicated on them NOT believing in Jesus??? How exactly does that work from a scriptural standpoint??

3. The ONLY references in the Bible to this sin are in the Gospels and only then it was committed by unbelievers, who were mortal enemies of Jesus. It was meant to discredit Jesus' ministry by portraying Jesus as being possessed of a demonic spirit. There is no record anywhere else in the Bible of a Christian committing that sin.

4. If your argument is that Christians can commit that sin, you have leave the realm of Scripture to make that claim. It is something you are pulling out of the air and not from Scripture. Perhaps you can imagine a Christian doing it, but that is not sufficient cause to claim that a Christian can blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

5. How can a Christian who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, blaspheme the Holy Spirit??? I would be interested in seeing your scriptural platform for such a claim.

btw, thanks... It is nice to be back on.

[wingnut-]

I don't disagree with a lot of what you had to say, but at the same time I think you illustrated what I meant when I said not everyone agrees on what it is. The reason I say this is because you assert that it could only occur during Jesus' earthly ministry.

The problem with that is a) it's blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, not blasphemy of Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is here to this day. b) Jesus is not the only one who could cast out demons, the apostles could do it, as well as those they passed the gifts onto. Even today there are exorcisms performed, so it's still going on now.

That being the case, someone today could just as easily accuse someone of the same thing the Pharisees accused Jesus of, so it would still be possible in my view.

The thing is, I am appealing to the context in which it appears, which is the ONLY context the Scripture offers.

1. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was committed by Jesus enemies who knew that Jesus was operating in the power of the Holy Spirit. Blasphemy is intentional, not accidental, so they knew what they were doing. Their hatred of Jesus was driving them to commit that sin. Precisely how does a follower of Jesus hate the Holy Spirit enough to blapsheme Him???

2. It is a sin rooted in unbelief, so how could a believer in Jesus commit a sin that is predicated on them NOT believing in Jesus??? How exactly does that work from a scriptural standpoint??

3. The ONLY references in the Bible to this sin are in the Gospels and only then it was committed by unbelievers, who were mortal enemies of Jesus. It was meant to discredit Jesus' ministry by portraying Jesus as being possessed of a demonic spirit. There is no record anywhere else in the Bible of a Christian committing that sin.

4. If your argument is that Christians can commit that sin, you have leave the realm of Scripture to make that claim. It is something you are pulling out of the air and not from Scripture. Perhaps you can imagine a Christian doing it, but that is not sufficient cause to claim that a Christian can blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

5. How can a Christian who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, blaspheme the Holy Spirit??? I would be interested in seeing your scriptural platform for such a claim.

btw, thanks... It is nice to be back on.

I agree with you on that, I don't think a follower of Christ would do this either. I must have misunderstood the topic, I thought you were saying it could not happen at all, didn't realize we were speaking of believers exclusively.

[Guest ninhao]

The thing is, I am appealing to the context in which it appears, which is the ONLY context the Scripture offers.

1. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit was committed by Jesus enemies who knew that Jesus was operating in the power of the Holy Spirit. Blasphemy is intentional, not accidental, so they knew what they were doing. Their hatred of Jesus was driving them to commit that sin. Precisely how does a follower of Jesus hate the Holy Spirit enough to blapsheme Him???

2. It is a sin rooted in unbelief, so how could a believer in Jesus commit a sin that is predicated on them NOT believing in Jesus??? How exactly does that work from a scriptural standpoint??

3. The ONLY references in the Bible to this sin are in the Gospels and only then it was committed by unbelievers, who were mortal enemies of Jesus. It was meant to discredit Jesus' ministry by portraying Jesus as being possessed of a demonic spirit. There is no record anywhere else in the Bible of a Christian committing that sin.

4. If your argument is that Christians can commit that sin, you have leave the realm of Scripture to make that claim. It is something you are pulling out of the air and not from Scripture. Perhaps you can imagine a Christian doing it, but that is not sufficient cause to claim that a Christian can blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

5. How can a Christian who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, blaspheme the Holy Spirit??? I would be interested in seeing your scriptural platform for such a claim.

btw, thanks... It is nice to be back on.

I am also pleased to be reading your words again

I have been wondering why blasphemy of the Holy Spirit must be confined to the NT. Isn't it likely this has been an age old sin of rebellion against God that even Pharaoh committed?