Gay Christians who choose celibacy.....

[Guest shiloh357]

can you view homosexuality in a medical sense vs the spiritual sense Shilo?

as far as semantics goes there could be a difference between what they view the term yet agree with your position. Their fear is that sex of any kind could promote those feelings and because of their disposition to homosexual sin it is better to avoid sex to prevent the urges that this might cause.

their belief that the holy spirit can fill them up and prevent sexual desires is more logical than the holy spirit filling them up and completely changing their biological functions.

 

 

 

The Holy Spirit changes their hearts, not their biological functions.   Homosexuality is not a medical condition.  It is a sin, a spiritual problem that only Jesus can fix.  They cannot be helped until they turn to Jesus and allow Him to transform them into the new people they are supposed to be. 

[Guest shiloh357]

I don't think they are justifying anything Shilo I think they find it just as despicable as you they probably even hate themselves for it. Which is why they are trying to shield themselves from sexual thoughts. I think they classify themselves as homosexual in the medical sense not the spirtual

 

 

 

 

 

They would justify being gay, just not the act...    But that is illogical.   That is like saying its okay to WANT to murder, as long as you just don't do it.  It's like saying that it's okay to WANT to molest children even if you don't act on it.

 

We don't justify any other sin the way you and others try to justify homosexuality.  There is no other sin in existence were people think it is okay to want to commit that sin even if they don't do it.  Homosexuality is the ONLY sin treated, even by "Christians" in this way.

[enoob57]

 

I don't think they are justifying anything Shilo I think they find it just as despicable as you they probably even hate themselves for it. Which is why they are trying to shield themselves from sexual thoughts. I think they classify themselves as homosexual in the medical sense not the spirtual

 

 

 

 

 

They would justify being gay, just not the act...    But that is illogical.   That is like saying its okay to WANT to murder, as long as you just don't do it.  It's like saying that it's okay to WANT to molest children even if you don't act on it.

 

We don't justify any other sin the way you and others try to justify homosexuality.  There is no other sin in existence were people think it is okay to want to commit that sin even if they don't do it.  Homosexuality is the ONLY sin treated, even by "Christians" in this way.

 

 

 

Exactly and God The Son has spoken directly to this issue-

Mt 5:28-30

 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.  29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.  30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

NKJV

It does not get any clearer than this.... if one is to be free of evil it must be in the heart

Jn 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

NKJV

And it is not rocket science...

Love, Steven

[Guest shiloh357]

How do you know they aren't turning to God?

 

 

Because they think they are already Christians. 

 

 

You say that celibacy is worthless because it is nonbiblical for the Bible says you have to be in a certain relationship to engage in sexual activities and anything outside of that is sin. But what if you cannot fulfill those biblical requirements to have sex?

 

 

If you are not married, don't have sex.  It's as simple as that.  Sex outside God's plan is sin.   I have never had sex. and have never been married.  My wholeness and completeness is not found in another human being.  It is found in Jesus and He is the reason I can abstain from sexual relations with a woman until I am married. If I never get married, I am no less for it. I found the power to sexual pure and I speak from years of experience.  

 

You say that you condemn just as harshly heterosexual sin and homosexual sin, but as LittleLamb said if a heterosexual can be right with God struggling with their sexual desires outside marriage surely a homosexual can be right with God struggling with their sexual desires outside of marriage (temptation itself is not a sin right?). I don't know how you would get around that unless you want to propose that everyone who isn't married is in sin, or unless you truly are treating homosexual and heterosexual sin differently. 

 

 

 

I have repeatedly stated that there is a difference between a homosexual that struggles with temptation because He has been truly born again and understands that even the very desire to be gay is a sin and a homosexual who sees nothing wrong with being gay and doesn't believe it is a sin to have those desires.   It is not a sin to be tempted.  It is a sin to entertain and embrace what you are being tempted to do, even if you don't act on it.     Those who truly struggle with hommosexuality struggle with the desire.  The act is born out of the desire, so it is in the heart that the true battle against homosexuality is waged.   If they are not truly saved then they will not engage in that struggle.  Trying to live in the homosexual lifestyle without being sexually active is like being on a diet, but wanting to hang out at the donut shop.

 

 

 

Earlier you said that abstinence until you are married is biblical as you are remaining sexually pure. And essentially that is what these people are doing; they are remaining abstinent while outside of marriage. However they have no inclination to get married biblically, so they take abstinence one step further by taking a vow to not get married because "marriage" to them will not be biblical marriage. Thus celibacy which is abstinence with the added condition of not getting married. Again I don't know how you would get around this unless not being married is a sin or you truly do treat homosexual and heterosexual sin differently. 

 

 

Nope.  Sexual purity begins in the heart.  Since they don't see homosexual desires to be sinful, the notion that they are sexual pure is wrong.   Furthermore it is irrational to claim that it is wrong to have gay sex while at the same time arguing that the desire for gay sex is not in and of itself sinful.  The desire that precipates the act, that gives birth to the act is as sinful as the act itself.   As long as they harbor and entertain the desire, their goal to be celibate will fail.
 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

 

It is self-righteousness to judge homosexual sin more harshly that heterosexual sin, which is the point at issue! Jesus pronounced woe on the self-righteous, who thought they knew and kept the rules and judged those whom they thought didn't!

 

 

 

 

I am not judging it more harshly.   If you read my postings, I have come down just as hard on heterosexual adultery, fornication, pornography, lust, incest, etc.   At no time did I ever say that heterosexual sexual sin was not as bad.

 

Evidently, you have decided to assign values to my posts that I don't possess.  I would suggest that you try  to know what you  are talking about before making unfounded and incorrect assumptions.

 

You didn't answer the question:   Do you believe that homosexuality is a sin, Gandalf??

 

All sex outside of marriage is sinful, be it heterosexual or homosexual. I am glad you treat both equally. I note that Jesus was harsher on self-righteousness than on any sexual sin.

 

 

 

 

 

And it's a good thing that pointing out that homosexual desires as sinful as the act they give birth to, isn't self-righteous.  Isn't that right, Gandalf???    

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

I am a member of the MCC. And this church is open to LGBT people. I believe, that it is the best for all Christians to live in celebace. Until they are married.

 

 

 

 

Do you mean the Metropolitan Community Churches? Curious. 

 

 

 

Yep! And our Pastor is a straight woman, married and mother of two nice Kids. We plan to make a short movie about Bible and homosexuality. If it is ready it will Show at YouTube.

 

 

 

 

 

MCC is not a true Church.  It is a fornication of bricks.   Its acceptance of the gay lifestyle as a valid expression of faith is a reproach and it cannot be considered a genuine New Testament Church.  

[Guest shiloh357]

So, do I understand that all sin is forgiven but not that of the homosexual who has determined to not take part in the act? I thought there was only "one"sin that was unpardonable. We appear to be keeping those who may have that tendency from even asking for forgiveness for his/her sin by saying that they will not be forgiven - so forget it. I think God is far more forgiving than we are. I would be sorely grieved if God judged my sin as harshly as we appear to be judging them

 

 

 

 

All sin is forgiven, even the sin of homosexuality was paid for on the cross.  But forgiveness must be appropriated.  One MUST repent of sin and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior in order to appropriate forgiveness.   Homosexuals can be forgiven and complete delivered from the sin of homosexuality.   But that decision is between them and God. If they continue in their sin pretending it is not sin, they will find that they are under God's judgment and will receive that judgment when they have to stand before the Lord and give an accounting of their lives.

 

God judges sin very harshly and we can look at Jesus on the cross to see just how harshly God judged sin.  Jesus bore that judgment in full, but forgiveness is not automatic.  Repentance is the doorway to forgivenss and a right relationship with God.

[Gerioke]

 

can you view homosexuality in a medical sense vs the spiritual sense Shilo?

as far as semantics goes there could be a difference between what they view the term yet agree with your position. Their fear is that sex of any kind could promote those feelings and because of their disposition to homosexual sin it is better to avoid sex to prevent the urges that this might cause.

their belief that the holy spirit can fill them up and prevent sexual desires is more logical than the holy spirit filling them up and completely changing their biological functions.

 

 

 

The Holy Spirit changes their hearts, not their biological functions.   Homosexuality is not a medical condition.  It is a sin, a spiritual problem that only Jesus can fix.  They cannot be helped until they turn to Jesus and allow Him to transform them into the new people they are supposed to be. 

 

Cor:12:6 For even if I wish to boast, I will not be a fool, for I would be telling the truth, but I refrain from this so that no one may regard me beyond what he sees in me or what he hears from me,

7 even because of the extraordinary character of the revelations. Therefore, so that I would not become arrogant, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to trouble me --- so that I would not become arrogant.

What do you suppose Paul's "thorn" is?

By your logic, Paul is doomed

[Gerioke]

2 Corinthians 12: Paul's Thorn in the Flesh

1 It is necessary to go on boasting. Though it is not profitable, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord.

2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago (whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows) was caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I know that this man (whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows)

4 was caught up into paradise and heard things too sacred to be put into words, things that a person is not permitted to speak.

5 On behalf of such an individual I will boast, but on my own behalf I will not boast, except about my weaknesses.

6 For even if I wish to boast, I will not be a fool, for I would be telling the truth, but I refrain from this so that no one may regard me beyond what he sees in me or what he hears from me,

7 even because of the extraordinary character of the revelations. Therefore, so that I would not become arrogant, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to trouble me --- so that I would not become arrogant.

8 I asked the Lord three times about this, that it would depart from me.

9 But he said to me, "My grace is enough for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." So then, I will boast most gladly about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may reside in me.

10 Therefore I am content with weaknesses, with insults, with troubles, with persecutions and difficulties for the sake of Christ, for whenever I am weak, then I am strong.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

Cor:12:6 For even if I wish to boast, I will not be a fool, for I would be telling the truth, but I refrain from this so that no one may regard me beyond what he sees in me or what he hears from me,

7 even because of the extraordinary character of the revelations. Therefore, so that I would not become arrogant, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to trouble me --- so that I would not become arrogant.

What do you suppose Paul's "thorn" is?

By your logic, Paul is doomed

 

 

 

 

How so???  Paul's thorn in the flesh was a physical ailment/disability stemming most likely from the stoning incident.  In fact, Paul was not a healthy person given the physically abusive treatment and austre living conditions (unsanitary prisons, beatings, floggings ,etc.)   Paul's thorn in the flesh was not a sin that he could not conquer, but a physical infirmity of some kind.