Gay Christians who choose celibacy.....

[chloe_fantastic]

 

I'm still looking for evidence that perverse homosexual desires are demonic but gluttonous desires aren't. 

 

 

 

we see from scripture that there is apparently "unclean spirits" I'm guessing these would not be spirits that make people have messy houses, and dirty clothes

 

biblically speaking I personally believe these kinds of spirits lead people into such behaviors, today science has totally washed the biblical reality from Christians minds that there are any unclean spirits or demons that we see from scripture were an everyday occurence in the days of Jesus and His disciples.........they must of all went on vacation..........or real Christianity has

 

Brother, we don't have to guess. We can go directly to scripture and find out the truth. Asserting that some sins (usually ones we don't personally struggle with) are demonic and others (usually our pets sins, the ones we still secretly enjoy and indulge in from time to time) are not, just is not supported biblically.

 

I don't disagree that evil spirits can lead people into sinful behavior. I just see no evidence biblically that it's only certain behaviors.

[chloe_fantastic]

 

I still don't see a specific answer. Lots of "I think" and "I feel" but. No scripture saying that continued struggle against that sin indicates demonic activity.

 

Strongholds are demonic fortresses. If you aren't free, you are bound, and need to be delivered.

 

 

Does the Bible define stronholds this way?

 

Also haven't found any verses supporting salvation and delierence being two seperate events. Can you help me out?

[chloe_fantastic]

 

 

A stronghold is an area of darkness within our mind or personality that causes ongoing spiritual, emotional and\or behavioral problems. We can be genuinely born-again, and sincere in our faith, but have an ongoing struggle with thoughts, emotions, and habits that wage war against our relationship with Christ. We pray, we study, and we attempt to discipline ourselves, but often find our “problem” is resistant to real change.

Axe, even your own post (quoted above), shoots down your assertion that :-

 

If a person cannot simply renounce a sin in their lives, there is most definitely a stronghold there. Strongholds are demonic fortresses. If you aren't free, you are bound, and need to be delivered.

Nowhere in the bible is there scripture pointing to your assertion. Sometimes sin is just sin and the stronghold is something we build because of factors like a weak faith, pride, etc.

 

 

Satan builds strongholds. They are areas where he has made inroads into people's lives.

 

 

 

Any chance of scripture for this?

[Guest]

 

A stronghold is an area of darkness within our mind or personality that causes ongoing spiritual, emotional and\or behavioral problems. We can be genuinely born-again, and sincere in our faith, but have an ongoing struggle with thoughts, emotions, and habits that wage war against our relationship with Christ. We pray, we study, and we attempt to discipline ourselves, but often find our “problem” is resistant to real change.

Axe, even your own post (quoted above), shoots down your assertion that-

 

 

If a person cannot simply renounce a sin in their lives, there is most definitely a stronghold there. Strongholds are demonic fortresses. If you aren't free, you are bound, and need to be delivered.

Nowhere in the bible is there scripture pointing to your assertion. Sometimes sin is just sin and the stronghold is something we build because of factors like a weak faith, pride, etc.

 

Satan builds strongholds. They are areas where he has made inroads into people's lives.

 

Any chance of scripture for this?

 

 

~

 

How's This?

 

And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: Genesis 3:14

 

Too Early In The Book?

 

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18

 

How's

 

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. James 4:7

 

This

 

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

 

Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil. It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones. Proverbs 3:5-8

 

Too?

 

Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting. Psalms 139:23-24

 

~

 

That Old Dust Eater Is So Toast For Jesus Is Our Shepherd

 

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Psalms 23:1-3

 

And We Carry His Name

 

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

 

Those Snake Stomping Kids Of Grace

 

And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen. Romans 16:20

[Floatingaxe]

 

 

If they choose to do it this way and abstain, then good for them. I think they deserve their salvation.

No. They do not "deserve" salvation. They are not Christians to start with. Salvation is a gift, not a reward or a prize. No one deserves it.

 

What the Bible condemns is homosexual sex NOT same sex attraction.  It is possible for one to have same sex attraction while refraining from homosexual sex and be a Christian.  1Cor. 6: 9,10;  Rom. 1: 26,27;  1Tim. 1: 9,10;  Lev. 18: 22,29,30.

 

 

 

All your verses represent those who practice or indulge in sexual sin, yet you ignore Roman 1:26, which points out "shameful desires". The attraction itself is shameful to God. We are to take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.

 

2 Corinthians 10:5

We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.

[Floatingaxe]

 

 

 

 

How are you guys reconciling James 1:15-16 in this discussion? Sin comes from our evil desires. Not a demon.

 

Demons come from allowing evil a toe-hold.

Fa do you think ALL sin is from demonic origin? I just don't get why this sexual sin is according to you, but not others?

 

 

Where there is a struggle to overcome certain sins, that is one indication that there is a demonic stronghold in that life. Homosexuality is one of those. Some people can shed their homosexuality easily when they renounce it because of Christ, while most others cannot, and so deliverance is needed. Satan has his filthy hand in certain sins that he knows can prevent people from coming to Christ, and those who do can be made utterly ineffective and short on fellowship with God.

 

Can you provide scriptural support for the idea that where there is a struggle to overcome certain sins, that is one indication that there is a demonic stronghold in that life? Is there a list of these certain sins that states that they're more deeply rooted or that requires more struggle than others?

 

I'm also interested in the idea that most homosexuals can't shed their homosexuality easily when they come to Christ. We've all got anectodal evidence to support our own opinions on this, but can you objectively substantiate this for us?

 

There's no doubt deliverence is needed but I'm still waiting to see if there's any scripture to support the idea that salation and delierence are two seperate occurances, or maybe this is extra-biblical?

 

I'm still not understanding how this particular sin has Satan's hands on it, while others do not. Is this found in scripture?

 

I agree that a believer inolved in habitual sin......any sin.....can be very ineffective indeed.

 

 

If you cannot lay down some compulsion at the foot of the cross and leave it there, you have a definite problem with obsession. That is a stronghold. Strongholds are based on a fear, and that fear is based on a lie. Lies are of the devil.

 

Salvation and deliverance are separate things. While I was saved at an early age, I had to come to the point of seeking deliverance because I had unwittingly given ground to the enemy in a certain area. I praise God for His leading and His patience with me, taking me to the point of understanding that the area of concern in my life had a demonic root. Once that was removed, I was free to move on in my spiritual growth.

[Floatingaxe]

 

 

 

 

 

If you cannot lay down some compulsion at the foot of the cross and leave it there, you have a definite problem with obsession. That is a stronghold. Strongholds are based on a fear, and that fear is based on a lie. Lies are of the devil.

 

 Where in the Bible are we told to lay things down at the foot of the Cross? Why would we lay anything at the foot of the Cross?  While I do agree with you that many things have demonic influence, I don't agree with the foot of the Cross thing.  Help me out.

 

 

Are you having a hard time taking hold of the fact that we must allow the Lord Jesus Christ full access to every part of our lives? That we must turn over control or Lordship of every part of us to Him?

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

If they choose to do it this way and abstain, then good for them. I think they deserve their salvation.

No. They do not "deserve" salvation. They are not Christians to start with. Salvation is a gift, not a reward or a prize. No one deserves it.

 

What the Bible condemns is homosexual sex NOT same sex attraction.  It is possible for one to have same sex attraction while refraining from homosexual sex and be a Christian.  1Cor. 6: 9,10;  Rom. 1: 26,27;  1Tim. 1: 9,10;  Lev. 18: 22,29,30.

 

You don't know your Bible.  The Bible condemns the sinful desires as well as the act of sin as well.   Jesus taught that we should not only abstain from the act of adultery but from the inner sin of lust that leads to adultery.  Not only are we not  to murder but we are not allow into our heart, the kind of hate that leads to murder.  So sin begins in the heart long before it is carried out in the flesh. The longer you entertaing sinful desire, the more likely you will be to carry out in the flesh.

 

 

That provides us with a behavioral paradigm in how we are to look at sin.  We are to abstain from from the desires that lead to sin.  it is a lot easier to keep sin out of your life if you don't let it in to begin with.   We are to guard our heart against sinful desire.

 

If you can entertain sin in your heart and not believe that you are already sinning, then you have a very warped theology.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

 

 

 

If you cannot lay down some compulsion at the foot of the cross and leave it there, you have a definite problem with obsession. That is a stronghold. Strongholds are based on a fear, and that fear is based on a lie. Lies are of the devil.

 

 Where in the Bible are we told to lay things down at the foot of the Cross? Why would we lay anything at the foot of the Cross?  While I do agree with you that many things have demonic influence, I don't agree with the foot of the Cross thing.  Help me out.

 

It is an oft used Christian expression that means that we surrender to Christ.  Jesus bore our burdens on the cross and it simply means that we are taking our burdens of sin to Jesus and surrendering them to him because it was at the cross that those burdens were borne and we choose to no longer bear them.

[Floatingaxe]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you cannot lay down some compulsion at the foot of the cross and leave it there, you have a definite problem with obsession. That is a stronghold. Strongholds are based on a fear, and that fear is based on a lie. Lies are of the devil.

 

 Where in the Bible are we told to lay things down at the foot of the Cross? Why would we lay anything at the foot of the Cross?  While I do agree with you that many things have demonic influence, I don't agree with the foot of the Cross thing.  Help me out.

 

It is an oft used Christian expression that means that we surrender to Christ.  Jesus bore our burdens on the cross and it simply means that we are taking our burdens of sin to Jesus and surrendering them to him because it was at the cross that those burdens were borne and we choose to no longer bear them.

 

I think expressions like those lose their luster.  I have heard it many times before, but as my walk continues I wonder why we say things like this.  Our surrendering doesnt happen at the foot of the Cross.  For Jesus says we must bear our own.  Jesus did bear our burdens on the cross, yet He is no longer on it.  So again why do we "lay something down" at the foot of the cross as if He is still on it.  But that is a better question for another topic.  Unless MG doesn't mind as it seems this one is about exhausted...well mostly.

 

 

 

Jesus doesn't say we must bear our burdens. He bears them for us. Everything starts at the cross for us!

 

Every sin we have ever committed or entertained in the mind has been nailed to that cross, and a visit there for each of us is necessary, spiritually speaking.