GoldenEagle Posted June 9, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted June 9, 2013 Here's a thought... What do you think? "If you're avoiding sin and living morally so that God will have to bless you and save you, then you may be looking to Jesus as a teacher, model, and helper, but ironically you are avoiding him as Savior. You are trusting in your own goodness rather than in Jesus for your standing with God." - Tim Keller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Here's a thought... What do you think? "If you're avoiding sin and living morally so that God will have to bless you and save you, then you may be looking to Jesus as a teacher, model, and helper, but ironically you are avoiding him as Savior. You are trusting in your own goodness rather than in Jesus for your standing with God." - Tim Keller "Will have to" implies that we have some sort of control over God's decision making. Looking to Jesus as a teacher, model, and helper is something we're instructed to do. Living morally and avoiding sin doesn't necessarily mean we're trusting in our own goodness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted June 9, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,992 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,690 Content Per Day: 11.77 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 9, 2013 Here's a thought... What do you think? "If you're avoiding sin and living morally so that God will have to bless you and save you, then you may be looking to Jesus as a teacher, model, and helper, but ironically you are avoiding him as Savior. You are trusting in your own goodness rather than in Jesus for your standing with God." - Tim Keller "Will have to" implies that we have some sort of control over God's decision making. Looking to Jesus as a teacher, model, and helper is something we're instructed to do. Living morally and avoiding sin doesn't necessarily mean we're trusting in our own goodness. We are called to live moral lives as Christians.We try our best not to sin deliberately.Although as humans we sin everyday.As Christians we a supposed to look to Jesus as a teacher,model and helper.So I do not understand what you mean by "trusting in our own goodness" .We are supposed to be representatives of God to those around us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnomonist Posted June 9, 2013 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 272 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/29/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 9, 2013 Here's a thought... What do you think? "If you're avoiding sin and living morally so that God will have to bless you and save you, then you may be looking to Jesus as a teacher, model, and helper, but ironically you are avoiding him as Savior. You are trusting in your own goodness rather than in Jesus for your standing with God." - Tim Keller Living morally by the 10 commandments do not save a person, but if a person is saved, the 10 commandments will be emulated by the Spirit in that person (i.e. the law written in one's heart). The commandments are the standard of righteousness. Be wary of those who say the commandments are "done away" with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Here's a thought... What do you think? "If you're avoiding sin and living morally so that God will have to bless you and save you, then you may be looking to Jesus as a teacher, model, and helper, but ironically you are avoiding him as Savior. You are trusting in your own goodness rather than in Jesus for your standing with God." - Tim Keller "Will have to" implies that we have some sort of control over God's decision making. Looking to Jesus as a teacher, model, and helper is something we're instructed to do. Living morally and avoiding sin doesn't necessarily mean we're trusting in our own goodness. We are called to live moral lives as Christians.We try our best not to sin deliberately.Although as humans we sin everyday.As Christians we a supposed to look to Jesus as a teacher,model and helper.So I do not understand what you mean by "trusting in our own goodness" .We are supposed to be representatives of God to those around us. Putting our trust in our actions/works, instead of putting our trust in Jesus for our salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted June 9, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,992 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,690 Content Per Day: 11.77 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 9, 2013 Here's a thought... What do you think? "If you're avoiding sin and living morally so that God will have to bless you and save you, then you may be looking to Jesus as a teacher, model, and helper, but ironically you are avoiding him as Savior. You are trusting in your own goodness rather than in Jesus for your standing with God." - Tim Keller "Will have to" implies that we have some sort of control over God's decision making. Looking to Jesus as a teacher, model, and helper is something we're instructed to do. Living morally and avoiding sin doesn't necessarily mean we're trusting in our own goodness. We are called to live moral lives as Christians.We try our best not to sin deliberately.Although as humans we sin everyday.As Christians we a supposed to look to Jesus as a teacher,model and helper.So I do not understand what you mean by "trusting in our own goodness" .We are supposed to be representatives of God to those around us. Putting our trust in our actions/works, instead of putting our trust in Jesus for our salvation. So then we do not necessarily have to live moral lives?We are putting too much trust in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted June 9, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Share Posted June 9, 2013 I don't know if I'll explain this clear, but I'm going to try. I've learned to completely trust Jesus for my salvation. All the mistakes I make ( past, present and future ) have shown me if it's possible to mess something up I will. Therefore I have no choice but to trust Jesus for my salvation, Because I won't get to heaven any other way. Part of trusting him for my salvation, as my savior, means I trust him and the Holy Spirit to continually shape me to be more and more like Jesus. In word, in deed, in thought I must trust him to change me to be like him everyday. It amazes me sometimes, when I think about some people I know ( or even myself at times past ), that seem to have the frame of mind of there fine now that there saved. Or they have been saved awhile, and I guess have become comfortable with it. It's almost like there saying, I needed you to forgive me of my sin to get saved, but it's ok now Jesus I'll take it from here. If we need Jesus to get saved, to deal with our sin to start with, then we need him to keep dealing with it, and keep changing us to be more and more like him everyday. The "good works" I think should be a result of our relationship with Jesus. If your "avoiding sin and living morally" by living in faith in Jesus Christ, then there is not a problem. But if "avoiding sin and living morally" is being done apart from trusting Christ and obeying Jesus and his word then I think there may be a problem. As I stated before, I think this temptation hits all of us sooner or later when we begin to think there is something we can do that we don't need Jesus for. Often times it comes in quietly, when we don't realize. If we can't even take a breath without Jesus, then How can we possibly do anything else without him, especially avoid sin and live morally. I don't know if this was clear, or even what you were asking for.....but I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Firestormx Joseph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted June 9, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Here's a thought... What do you think? "If you're avoiding sin and living morally so that God will have to bless you and save you, then you may be looking to Jesus as a teacher, model, and helper, but ironically you are avoiding him as Savior. You are trusting in your own goodness rather than in Jesus for your standing with God." - Tim Keller "Will have to" implies that we have some sort of control over God's decision making. True, but if you think about it, that's what a lot of people think, consciously or subconsciously - if you do good, good will come to you. It's the mistake Job's three friends made (why they were giving him the wrong council). Looking to Jesus as a teacher, model, and helper is something we're instructed to do. Living morally and avoiding sin doesn't necessarily mean we're trusting in our own goodness. In part, yes. But if Jesus is your teacher, model, and helper but not your Savior, your theology and your walk are seriously off. In fact, if you know Him as teacher, model, and helper more than as Savior, you are likewise off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted June 9, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 Putting our trust in our actions/works, instead of putting our trust in Jesus for our salvation. Yes. This Man... ^^^. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted June 9, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 Yes but the changed life, attempting to be good etc is in response to God changing our nature? Of our own strength can we truly attempt to be good? God is the One changing our nature through the Holy Spirit to conform to Christ is He not? Can we change ourselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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