Captivity (exile) Rev 13:10

[WalkTheWay]

A careful reading of Paul’s advice to the Christians of his day answers your question:

 

Romans 12:19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.

 

Paul clearly stated that, although we are not to avenge ourselves, we are to make room for God’s wrath and allow God to avenge us; and he will do so because he is just.

 

2 Thessalonians 1:6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you

 

Additionally, the souls under the altar were not complaining, they asked a question, which leads to the revealing of events that will occur on Planet Earth immediately prior to the day of God’s wrath.

 

Revelation 6:10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.

¹² I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, ¹³ and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. ¹⁴ The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

¹⁵ Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. ¹⁶ They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us^[f] from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! ¹⁷ For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

Edited July 21, 2013 by WalkTheWay

[nikki1]

Hi WalkTheWay

A careful reading of Paul’s advice to the Christians of his day answers your question:

 

Romans 12:19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.

 

Paul clearly stated that, although we are not to avenge ourselves, we are to make room for God’s wrath and allow God to avenge us; and he will do so because he is just.

 

 

There's much more about vengeance and revenge  in the following:

 

Romans Chapter 13 reads

 

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers.  (plural)

For there is no power but of God; the powers that be ordained by God.

Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God; and they that resist shall receive themselves damnation

For rulers (plural) are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. 

Wilt thou then be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same;

 

For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain; for he is a minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

 

Wherefore, ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

For for this cause pay ye tribute also; for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

 

 

Render therefore to all their dues; tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

 

 

 

Also, please refer to scripture and my comments in post #29 above.

[nikki1]

Why are these saints under the altar complaining?  Why are they not rejoicing?

 

1 Cor 13:12 - Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror, then we shall see face to face.  Now I know in part, then I shall know fully, even as I am fully know.

 

It appears these saints under the altar have missed out on the "seeing Christ face to face" and "then I shall know fully".  For one brings on the others.  If one is in Christs presence, what happens?

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

 

Montana:

 

I have no way of knowing but it does not appear to me that the saints under the alter missed out on seeing Christ face to face because these souls are very much alive even though their body is still in the grave, because they are addressing the Lord.. ,John saw them wearing white robes which is symbolic of purity and they were told that they had to wait a little longer to have their blood avenged, until their fellow servants and brethren were maryted. The saints were asking the Lord in a loud voice, (How long, O Lord, holy and true) addressing Him as 'holy and true' [as if in a praise]; We know our Lord now is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

The above verse clearly shows that Jesus has returned to His rightful place and authority with the Father.

 

John saw the souls of these saints under the alter, but that doesn't mean that the souls were not facing the throne or looking up to the throne of God  when they were crying out to the Lord. I would think they would be facing the throne as they were crying out to our Lord, addressing Him as "holy and true", [as if to praise]

 

 

 

Why are they not rejoicing?

 

Just because it is not written in this particular verse doesn't mean that  they have not been  rejoicing.

[Montana Marv]

I guess I will allow you to have your post-trib Rapture dream to come true.  Which country do you want to go to, all expenses paid, but each family member to a different country, you will not need a passport.  For you will become someones slave (for you cannot buy or sell or own anything).  I have always wondered how many individuals would fit into a box car and how many miles they would be able to ride in them, stuck in a box car from transport with dead bodies, who moves to the head of the box car.  We would have to go back and look at the holocaust around Germany. Yet this time will be worse than the holocaust.   Happy Trails.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[WalkTheWay]

There's much more about vengeance and revenge  in the following:

 

Romans Chapter 13 reads

 

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers.  (plural)

For there is no power but of God; the powers that be ordained by God.

Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God; and they that resist shall receive themselves damnation

For rulers (plural) are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. 

Wilt thou then be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same;

 

For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain; for he is a minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

 

Wherefore, ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

For for this cause pay ye tribute also; for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

 

Render therefore to all their dues; tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

 

Also, please refer to scripture and my comments in post #29 above.

The Holy Scriptures also mention that those same governments will be subject to God's wrath on the Great Day of the LORD:

 

Revelation 6:15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. ¹⁶ They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! ¹⁷ For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

 

The Great Day of the LORD

Zephaniah 1:14

The great day of the Lord is near,

    near and hastening fast;

the sound of the day of the Lord is bitter;

    the mighty man cries aloud there.

¹⁵ A day of wrath is that day,

    a day of distress and anguish,

a day of ruin and devastation,

    a day of darkness and gloom,

a day of clouds and thick darkness,

¹⁶     a day of trumpet blast and battle cry

against the fortified cities

    and against the lofty battlements.

¹⁷ I will bring distress on mankind,

    so that they shall walk like the blind,

    because they have sinned against the Lord;

their blood shall be poured out like dust,

    and their flesh like dung.

¹⁸ Neither their silver nor their gold

    shall be able to deliver them

    on the day of the wrath of the Lord.

In the fire of his jealousy,

    all the earth shall be consumed;

for a full and sudden end

    he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.

Edited July 21, 2013 by WalkTheWay

[nikki1]

 

Hi WalkTheWay

 

The Holy Scriptures also mention that those same governments will be subject to God's wrath on the Great Day of the LORD:

 

 

Revelation 6:15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains.

 

 

They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

 

 

 

 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

 

 

Revelation 6:15-17 is talking about the unrighteous, those who dwell on the earth at the time of the day of the Lord, those kings and rulers and all those  who did not obey the Gospel of Christ, those kings and rulers who committed fornication with Babylon and were ruled by Babylon, secular powers and governments, pagan worshippers and governments which supported them and so forth. These are the kings and rulers who gather to battle on that great day of God Almighty. They are not righteous kings and rulers, ordained by the Lord to carry forth righteous  justice on the earth, but they are those who persecuted Christians and God fearing people people.

 

Being of a post tribulation catching away of the saints believer, just before this occurs, Jesus will deliver his people from God's great wrath (Matthew 24:29-31) which occurs immediately after the tribulation of those days and  at the opening of the 6th seal

[WalkTheWay]

They are not righteous kings and rulers, ordained by the Lord to carry forth righteous  justice on the earth, but they are those who persecuted Christians and God fearing people.

 

Being of a post tribulation catching away of the saints believer, just before this occurs, Jesus will deliver his people from God's great wrath (Matthew 24:29-31) which occurs immediately after the tribulation of those days and  at the opening of the 6th seal

As far as I'm aware there aren't any righteous governments on Planet Earth.  Who are the righteous kings and rulers to whom you are referring?

Edited July 22, 2013 by WalkTheWay

[Guest]

I guess I will allow you to have your post-trib Rapture dream to come true.  Which country do you want to go to, all expenses paid, but each family member to a different country, you will not need a passport.  For you will become someones slave (for you cannot buy or sell or own anything).  I have always wondered how many individuals would fit into a box car and how many miles they would be able to ride in them, stuck in a box car from transport with dead bodies, who moves to the head of the box car.  We would have to go back and look at the holocaust around Germany. Yet this time will be worse than the holocaust.   Happy Trails.

 

 

If any man have an ear, let him hear. He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. Revelation 13:9-10

[nikki1]

 

They are not righteous kings and rulers, ordained by the Lord to carry forth righteous  justice on the earth, but they are those who persecuted Christians and God fearing people.

 

Being of a post tribulation catching away of the saints believer, just before this occurs, Jesus will deliver his people from God's great wrath (Matthew 24:29-31) which occurs immediately after the tribulation of those days and  at the opening of the 6th seal

As far as I'm aware there aren't any righteous governments on Planet Earth.  Who are the righteous kings and rulers to whom you are referring?

 

As far as I'm aware there aren't any righteous governments on Planet Earth.

Planet earth has been around along time, and governments are made up of kings, rulers, people, throughout history. I think it is up to God to decide who is righteous and who is not, based upon the Apostle Paul's teachings in Romans Chapter 13.

　

Who are the righteous kings and rulers to whom you are referring?

I didn't refer to any particular persons, because I am not the judge.

I was merely making a general statement, which you took out of context in my comments.

　

　

　

　

[WalkTheWay]

Nikki1, your original comment states that only unrigteous kings and rulers will be subjected to God's wrath.  Thus, it's logical to conclude from your statement that "righteous" rulers would not be subject to God's wrath.

 

My initial comments stands, there aren't any righteous governments on Planet Earth, which is why almighty God will destroy every single one of them and enthrone his Beloved Son and will make him Ruler of all:

 

Daniel 2:44 In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.

 

Daniel 7:13-14

¹³ “I saw in the night visions,

and behold, with the clouds of heaven
    there came one like a son of man,
and he came to the Ancient of Days
    and was presented before him.
¹⁴ And to him was given dominion
    and glory and a kingdom,
that all peoples, nations, and languages
    should serve him;
his dominion is an everlasting dominion,
    which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom one
    that shall not be destroyed.

 

Psalm 146

3 Do not put your trust in princes,

in human beings, who cannot save.

4 When their spirit departs, they return to the ground;

on that very day their plans come to nothing.

5 Blessed are those whose help is the God of Jacob,

whose hope is in the LORD their GOD.

Edited July 22, 2013 by WalkTheWay