WN: Morsi ousted, under house arrest, as crowds celebrate in Cairo -

[MorningGlory]

 

 

We should not be sending aid to any Muslim country, including Egypt.  They are not our allies or our friends.

 

 

 

I not only agree with that statement, I believe that things would get BETTER, world wide, if the islamists weren't given money to plot and carry out their terrorist acts......in which ALL of them are actively engaged. 

[MorningGlory]

 

 

The situation is a bit complex.

 

We supported the previous gov't, but then stabbed the leader in the back when the people revolted against him by siding with the people.

 

The newly elected president belonged to the Muslim Brotherhood, which has been known as a Muslim terrorist organization. But our leader(s) turned a blind eye to this fact.

 

So here we have again the people making their demands against the elected president. Do we side with the people again, or do we side with the Muslim Brotherhood again?

 

 

How about we side with no one and let them fight their own battles?  We can't win no matter who we back here.....and, anyway, we don't need to be giving money away.  I see no return on 30 + years of aid to Egypt.

 

Peace with Israel??

 

A tenuous peace at best.  My plan: Triple aid to Israel, cut off ALL aid to muslim countries and we get peace for Israel (the islamists would be afraid to do anything), we wouldn't have to do this diplomatic dance with them, they would turn on each other since they would have no money to attack anyone else  and we would still save money.  Let the desert swallow them...the world would be a better place.

[homebild]

The Egyptian situation isn't complex at all.

 

The US wants stability in Egypt...regardless of who can provide it...and regardless if it involves democracy or not.

 

The US support for dictators Anwar Sadat and Hosni Mubarek was without regard for how well Sadat or Mubarek practiced democracy.

 

The fact that Morsi was elected democratically, was never in the US best interest nor in the best interest of the Egyptian military.

 

Had not the Egyptian military acted as they had, the nation would have slid into civil war and chaos....

 

Had the Egyptian military abided by the democratic process, and done nothing,  the nation would have still slid into civil war and chaos...

 

The US has never had any qualms bedding down with military juntas and dictators when it has suited the interests of the US.

 

It won't be any different this time around.

 

The best interests of the US Government lies with the Egyptian military right now, regardless how they act and who they place in power.

Edited July 6, 2013 by homebild

[nebula]

 

 

 

The situation is a bit complex.

 

We supported the previous gov't, but then stabbed the leader in the back when the people revolted against him by siding with the people.

 

The newly elected president belonged to the Muslim Brotherhood, which has been known as a Muslim terrorist organization. But our leader(s) turned a blind eye to this fact.

 

So here we have again the people making their demands against the elected president. Do we side with the people again, or do we side with the Muslim Brotherhood again?

 

Despite how we might feel about Morsi, he was the legally elected President of the country.  How can we claim to stand for democracy and then send aide to military that just removed the legally elected official? 

 

But it was the will of the people for Morsi to be removed from power. The people had been calling on the military to act as they eventually did. Have you missed this in the news reports you have read?

 

 

and it was the will of the people that put him in office just a year ago.  is this a good way to run a country?  every time a leader does not make everyone happy you just get the military to throw them out?

 

Do you think it sets a good precedent to just suspend the constitution at the "will of the people"?

 

What is the point of having elections?  what is the point of having a constitution?

 

This was a military coup plain and simple and we should not be supporting it.

 

 

JD, if you think you have 100% understanding of the situation, you are thinking like a 16 year-old. I don't mean that as an insult, but as a point of reference. Due to brain development levels, teenagers tend to think of the world in black and white, everything can be categorized in neat boxes, etc. In the early adult years, the brain develops the higher levels of cognition and reason where one realizes there are no simple and straight-forward answers to all things.

 

If you are looking for an "easy" solution or the "best" solution, you are not going to find one in the real world.

 

Do you live in Egypt? Do you communicate with Egyptians? How well do you know Egyptian culture, lifestyle, governance, living situations, economics?

 

 

The wise man will research and weigh options, not quickly pick solutions based on predetermined ideals.

 

There is a lot of political maneuverings involved with Egypt - internally and externally. One should be careful where one treads. There are mines and trip wires hidden in the field.

[JDavis]

 

JD, if you think you have 100% understanding of the situation, you are thinking like a 16 year-old. I don't mean that as an insult, but as a point of reference. Due to brain development levels, teenagers tend to think of the world in black and white, everything can be categorized in neat boxes, etc. In the early adult years, the brain develops the higher levels of cognition and reason where one realizes there are no simple and straight-forward answers to all things.

 

If you are looking for an "easy" solution or the "best" solution, you are not going to find one in the real world.

 

Do you live in Egypt? Do you communicate with Egyptians? How well do you know Egyptian culture, lifestyle, governance, living situations, economics?

 

 

The wise man will research and weigh options, not quickly pick solutions based on predetermined ideals.

 

There is a lot of political maneuverings involved with Egypt - internally and externally. One should be careful where one treads. There are mines and trip wires hidden in the field.

 

 

nope, nothing insulting about calling someone a 16 year old. 

 

I have a pretty good understanding of the Muslim culture, lifestyle, governance and such having spent a good part of my childhood growing up in a Muslim country. 

 

Not saying the situation is black and white, but the bottom line is that a legally elected president was overthrown and the constitution was abandoned, because the people were not happy.  What happens with the next President if the people are not happy again?    Sadly it is not always the job of the government to make people happy, often the right thing is not the popular thing.

 

For our government to support this actions makes a mockery of all that we claim to stand for.

[nebula]

JD, if you think you have 100% understanding of the situation, you are thinking like a 16 year-old. I don't mean that as an insult, but as a point of reference. Due to brain development levels, teenagers tend to think of the world in black and white, everything can be categorized in neat boxes, etc. In the early adult years, the brain develops the higher levels of cognition and reason where one realizes there are no simple and straight-forward answers to all things.

 

If you are looking for an "easy" solution or the "best" solution, you are not going to find one in the real world.

 

Do you live in Egypt? Do you communicate with Egyptians? How well do you know Egyptian culture, lifestyle, governance, living situations, economics?

 

 

The wise man will research and weigh options, not quickly pick solutions based on predetermined ideals.

 

There is a lot of political maneuverings involved with Egypt - internally and externally. One should be careful where one treads. There are mines and trip wires hidden in the field.

 

 

nope, nothing insulting about calling someone a 16 year old. 

 

I have a pretty good understanding of the Muslim culture, lifestyle, governance and such having spent a good part of my childhood growing up in a Muslim country. 

 

Not saying the situation is black and white, but the bottom line is that a legally elected president was overthrown and the constitution was abandoned, because the people were not happy.  What happens with the next President if the people are not happy again?    Sadly it is not always the job of the government to make people happy, often the right thing is not the popular thing.

 

For our government to support this actions makes a mockery of all that we claim to stand for.

 

 

JD, I didn't call you a 16 year-old, I said "if you think [such a way] ... you are thinking like a 16 year-old." It is not the same.

 

 

Ok, it's good to know you know what living in a Muslim culture is like. What then do you think of Sharia Law? And what do you think of how Morsi was implementing Sharia Law against the will of the people?

 

 

As for the "black and white" issue, the words I've been reading from you do come across as "black and white" - even now, your words are looking at "legally elected" as if it's black and white.

 

From what I've understood, Morsi won the election because the Muslim Brotherhood was the most organized of all the people and groups running for president. The people ousted the previous guy crying for freedom. The new guy was not giving them the promised freedom, but was shoving Sharia Law down their throats in the new Constitution.

 

Are you against the people keeping an elected leader accountable to his word? Or should they swallow the pill of deception and disappointment and watch their lives sink further into oppression like we are in the US?

 

 

 

 

As for what we claim to stand for - it's definitely a mockery of our current governing leaders to support the people keeping their leaders responsible to their word! But as far as our Constitution and the spirit of our founding fathers, they were all for the people not letting their leaders get away with oppression and tyranny. That's how our nation was founded, after all.

[JDavis]

 

JD, if you think you have 100% understanding of the situation, you are thinking like a 16 year-old. I don't mean that as an insult, but as a point of reference. Due to brain development levels, teenagers tend to think of the world in black and white, everything can be categorized in neat boxes, etc. In the early adult years, the brain develops the higher levels of cognition and reason where one realizes there are no simple and straight-forward answers to all things.

 

If you are looking for an "easy" solution or the "best" solution, you are not going to find one in the real world.

 

Do you live in Egypt? Do you communicate with Egyptians? How well do you know Egyptian culture, lifestyle, governance, living situations, economics?

 

 

The wise man will research and weigh options, not quickly pick solutions based on predetermined ideals.

 

There is a lot of political maneuverings involved with Egypt - internally and externally. One should be careful where one treads. There are mines and trip wires hidden in the field.

 

 

nope, nothing insulting about calling someone a 16 year old. 

 

I have a pretty good understanding of the Muslim culture, lifestyle, governance and such having spent a good part of my childhood growing up in a Muslim country. 

 

Not saying the situation is black and white, but the bottom line is that a legally elected president was overthrown and the constitution was abandoned, because the people were not happy.  What happens with the next President if the people are not happy again?    Sadly it is not always the job of the government to make people happy, often the right thing is not the popular thing.

 

For our government to support this actions makes a mockery of all that we claim to stand for.

 

 

JD, I didn't call you a 16 year-old, I said "if you think [such a way] ... you are thinking like a 16 year-old." It is not the same.

 

 

Ok, it's good to know you know what living in a Muslim culture is like. What then do you think of Sharia Law? And what do you think of how Morsi was implementing Sharia Law against the will of the people?

 

 

As for the "black and white" issue, the words I've been reading from you do come across as "black and white" - even now, your words are looking at "legally elected" as if it's black and white.

 

From what I've understood, Morsi won the election because the Muslim Brotherhood was the most organized of all the people and groups running for president. The people ousted the previous guy crying for freedom. The new guy was not giving them the promised freedom, but was shoving Sharia Law down their throats in the new Constitution.

 

Are you against the people keeping an elected leader accountable to his word? Or should they swallow the pill of deception and disappointment and watch their lives sink further into oppression like we are in the US?

 

 

 

 

As for what we claim to stand for - it's definitely a mockery of our current governing leaders to support the people keeping their leaders responsible to their word! But as far as our Constitution and the spirit of our founding fathers, they were all for the people not letting their leaders get away with oppression and tyranny. That's how our nation was founded, after all.

 

 

 

Where to start...

 

Yes, Morsi won because organized of all the people and groups running for president, not unlike how people win election in this great country of ours.  Would you be ok with the military kicking Obama out of office because the people are not happy with him?    Or how about when Bush was president, he had some of the lowest approval ratings in history, I guess you would have been ok with the military stepping in and getting rid of him?

 

though, after reading the rest of your post maybe you would be ok with such a thing happening here. 

 

Will the next guy give them the "freedom" they want?  Do they even really know what freedom is?   what happens when the next guy cannot make them happy, will you support his being taken out of office by the military also?

[nebula]

Where to start...

 

Yes, Morsi won because organized of all the people and groups running for president, not unlike how people win election in this great country of ours.  Would you be ok with the military kicking Obama out of office because the people are not happy with him?    Or how about when Bush was president, he had some of the lowest approval ratings in history, I guess you would have been ok with the military stepping in and getting rid of him?

 

though, after reading the rest of your post maybe you would be ok with such a thing happening here. 

 

Will the next guy give them the "freedom" they want?  Do they even really know what freedom is?   what happens when the next guy cannot make them happy, will you support his being taken out of office by the military also?

 

 

Ah yes, so easy to put dots together and come to a conclusion, eh?

 

 

 

Are you in agreement with President Obama then, that we should be aiding and supporting the Muslim Brotherhood? (For that is what aiding Morsi is doing.)

 

Do you stand with the Muslim Brotherhood?

 

 

Are you still certain this is such a simple conclusion to make claims on?

[JDavis]

 

 

Ah yes, so easy to put dots together and come to a conclusion, eh?

 

 

 

Are you in agreement with President Obama then, that we should be aiding and supporting the Muslim Brotherhood? (For that is what aiding Morsi is doing.)

 

Do you stand with the Muslim Brotherhood?

 

 

Are you still certain this is such a simple conclusion to make claims on?

 

 

what is it with people on this forum, either you have been here too long and don't bother to read what people write or the comprehension level is very low.

 

If you read my first post you will see I do not want money being sent to Egypt at all, that is why I want the government to call it what it is, a coup.

 

But instead we are still sending money to the country and now the military has control of it all.   And if you think the MB does not have its fingers in the military you do not understand the region at all.   As it is, you are the one in agreement with Obama.

[MorningGlory]

 

 

 

Ah yes, so easy to put dots together and come to a conclusion, eh?

 

 

 

Are you in agreement with President Obama then, that we should be aiding and supporting the Muslim Brotherhood? (For that is what aiding Morsi is doing.)

 

Do you stand with the Muslim Brotherhood?

 

 

Are you still certain this is such a simple conclusion to make claims on?

 

 

what is it with people on this forum, either you have been here too long and don't bother to read what people write or the comprehension level is very low.

 

If you read my first post you will see I do not want money being sent to Egypt at all, that is why I want the government to call it what it is, a coup.

 

But instead we are still sending money to the country and now the military has control of it all.   And if you think the MB does not have its fingers in the military you do not understand the region at all.   As it is, you are the one in agreement with Obama.

 

I think that people on this forum understand the written word just fine, JD.  You fit right in here as you turn insulting as soon as you are challenged.  I've been guilty of it myself but, a word to the wise, it's not Christian behavior.