Lying and deceiving...

[JDavis]

Is it always wrong to lie or to intentionally deceive someone?

 

It is my view that the Bible gives clear examples of what some call "righteous" deception.

 

The most obvious example is Rahab, but there are many others.

 

It has been put forth in a different thread that it is always wrong to lie or deceive and that even a country is wrong for doing so.

 

What do you all think?

[missmuffet]

The Bible is clear that lying is a sin Colossians 3:9,1 Timothy 1:9-11,Revelation 21:8.The first lie in this world involved Eve.Their are two instances in the Bible where lying produced a favorable result Exodus 1:15-21,Joshua 2:5.

Sometimes when lying may be the only possible way to prevent a horrible evil,perhaps that would be an exceptable thing to do.But that is not the ordinary.

[BlessedByTheBest]

to lie to or deceive another is akin to shackling them in bondage, or at the least adding an additional link to that chain of falsehood.

even the most seemingly insignificant act of deception can create compounding repercussions.

 

the truth sets people free.

[Guest man]

I believe lying or deceiving for personal gain is wrong.

 

 

However, I wouldn't balk at the idea of lying or deceiving for the benefit of another's health or safety.

[Gandalf]

I believe lying or deceiving for personal gain is wrong.

 

 

However, I wouldn't balk at the idea of lying or deceiving for the benefit of another's health or safety.

Do you have New Testament support for that?

[JDavis]

I believe lying or deceiving for personal gain is wrong.

However, I wouldn't balk at the idea of lying or deceiving for the benefit of another's health or safety.

Do you have New Testament support for that?

How about the New Testament adding Rehab to the list of faithful for the very act of lying ?

[NeedYouLord]

I know that before conversion...(being changed)...born again...I thought little "white" lies weren't hurting anything...they were just little ones...not hurting anything...but why in the world was I thinking like that? I really didn't know the truth and didn't have a new way to think...I didn't have a renewed mind...I used it (so I thought) to get me out of trouble sometimes...I would rather go the Truth route...It feels better and is better.

 

Ummm...Need to go to prayer and ask God why about Rahab...we know the obvious but there is always a deeper meaning...also were there non-believers involved in this? Maybe God's Ways That Are Higher Were Used to Show The Non-believers something...To them it might of looked like deception but God has a higher Way...A Higher Purpose...

[JDavis]

I am thinking above the "little white lie" level.

 

Besides Rahab we have Tamar who deceived Judah in what was essentially a lie.   

 

God told Joshua to send spies into the promised land.   Is spying not a type of deception, which is the same as lying?   Why did God tell Joshua to be deceiving?

 

Gideon, at God's command, used deception to win a battle.  Why did God do this? 

 

Then thinking outside the Bible....

 

Think of Anne Frank and her family.   The workers that knew they were there lied about it for years.   were they wrong to do so?  was the one that told on them so they could be sent to concentration camps the one that "did the right thing"?

 

In WWII the Allied forces lied about where D-day invasion was going to take place.  was this wrong?

 

A good friend, and Christian man, is also a DEA agent.  Though he no longer does it, part of his job used to be undercover work.  Was he sinning by doing this job?

 

During the Civil war days those that ran the Underground Railroad lied to keep the runaway slaves safe.  Were they sinning and risking hell for doing this?

[Guest]

Personally, I believe lying is always sinful. I also believe though that it is at times possible, that it  can be a less evil option that other options we have or are aware of. With my mindset on this, one has to be careful not so deceive oneself into using that idea as an excuse to sin. 

 

I realize that is a vague concept, so I will give a controversial example. 

 

There is a family, that seems to have everything together, they love each other, are happy, go to church, prosper in general.

 

Through some unforeseen and unusual circumstances (not important to the example) the man has an affair, and let’s say we know this is one time, he repents and it will never happen again.

 

The situation occurs, where he was seen by a neighbor, with the woman at a convention he attended. The neighbor mentions it to the man's wife, and being a naturally jealous and distrusting person, the wife asks "Did you sleep with her?"

 

The man has options, the truth or a lie. Suppose he knows, to a 99 percent certainty, that his wife will divorce him if he tells the truth, and the happiness of his wive and kids, the in-laws etc, will be destroyed.

 

He can do the sinless thing, and tell the truth, causing pain and damage, or he can sin by lieing about it, deflecting much grief from everyone.

 

As an unemotionally involved outsider, I can see the merit in his sin, as a lessor of evils in the outcome, yet as a sin, I would never council him to lie about it.

 

We could invent hundreds of similar hypotheticals. It would be tempting, to take the easy way out. This is what I meant by carefully examining ones motives, it is easy to deceive oneself about the right thing to do and one's reason for one's choices. I am a big believer in motives, where was your heart when you did what you did, God knows, we do not always.

 

If one feels the need to lie, in my opinion, it is a sin, but might be the best choice anyway. Take the path dictated my scripture, in line with the will of God, and that presents one with the least amount of guilt - takes wisdom, discernment and brutally honest self-examination.

[JDavis]

Let me ask you all a question...

 

John 7:1-10.  Jesus tells his brothers this...

 

⁶ Therefore Jesus told them, “My time is not yet here; for you any time will do. ⁷ The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil. ⁸ You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.”

 

then this happens...

 

¹⁰ However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret.

 

So, I have to ask...Did Jesus lie?