Many Christians say "resist evil" v. Bible

[Guest bergfish777]

1. Many Christians say "resist evil" v. the Bible

I've been sending letters out to broadcasters regarding the resistance issue and I thought I'd get one to you. A major problem is that Christians are letting false preconceptions block the simple and plain meaning of scripture. An example of this is when one inserts "good" in front of "government" in Romans 13. Another example is when one relies on the founders of this country as an authority. Christians need to be relying on the Bible as their exclusive authority instead of relying on man's word. We need to look at the simple meaning of scripture and not be deceived by philosophical arguments.

Romans 13 was penned by Paul when NERO was in power! This fact, plus the simple reading of scripture, shows us that there is no distinguishing between good and bad government when it comes to submission. Nowhere in the New Testament does scripture distinguish between good and bad "powers that be". There is the false preconception out there that says we are to submit to government only when it's a good government. ALL powers that be are ordained by God (Rom. 13). We are to submit EXCEPT when doing so would violate the Bible. If Hitler/Antichrist told us to do something that went against the Bible - we would be obligated to disobey in order to follow the Bible. Paul preached which was disobedient to government - but when caught - submitted.

There are many scriptures dealing with this issue.

Gal. 5:19 - no sedition

1 Pet. 2:13 - honor leaders

Tit. 3:1-2 - submit and do good works and be meek

Jude 9 - no railing

James 5:6 - you have condemned and killed the just and he doth NOT resist you

Mat. 5:39 - resist NOT evil

We are exhorted to be meek and gentle and loving - to turn the other cheek - to pray for leaders - and to be thankful in ALL things. The ENTIRE tone of the New Testament is one of nonresistance. We should bear the fruit of the Spirit - love, joy, peace, gentle, longsuffering etc. (Gal.5).

Jude 9 - Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Eph. 5:11 - We should reprove the evil works of darkness (Gal.5 works of flesh list) - but government is obviously a special case. We should not complain or criticize.

Revelation 12:11 - And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony and they loved not their lives unto the death. We are to GIVE UP SELF. Protecting our family's eternity is far more important than protecting the family farm. The weapons of our warfare are not carnal. Blessed are the peacemakers - the meek shall inherit the earth. When the antichrist tells us to fall down and worship him - we will disobey because the Bible tells us to worship only JESUS. For this act of courage - we will be put to death.

At the very least - there is a reasonable question on this issue. We need to play it safe for the Lord's sake and our eternity's sake. Resistance is damnable apostasy which is any going against the government. We should not complain, criticize, or resist - we should bear the fruit of the Spirit. Romans 13 - we are not to be terrorized by the government out of doing good works. We should let the Lord rebuke the powers that be (Jude 9). There is no power BUT OF GOD (Rom.13).

With the Fruit if the Spirit we can do/endure anything. Pray for growth/fruit.

2. BIBLE: Rapture occurs at 7th trumpet at END of trib.

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The BIBLE is so simple on this subject. First - just know that we can do anything with the fruit of the Spirit - Love, joy, peace......The Lord will fill us with joy and peace.

1. get rid of preconceptions and other men's teachings so you can see the simple answer in the Bible.

2. put these verses together :

a. mat.24:29-31 immediately AFTER the trib. ........ gathering the elect at TRUMPET sound........

b. 1 Cor. 15:51-52 behold I show you a MYSTERY ......at the LAST TRUMP...... the dead raised.....

c. 1 Thess. 5:9 not appointed to wrath

( The day of the Lord = The day of wrath = The vials ...........which occur immediately after the trumpets)

d. Rev.10:7 7th trumpet - the MYSTERY is finished......

3. Conclusion : rapture is at end of trib but before wrath. We will endure trib. with fruit of Spirit but not appointed unto wrath.

3. "Eternal Security" - Ungrown Christians risk apostasy

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A christian can become apostate. The verse that is comforting to me is at the end of Jude : unto him that is able to keep you from falling...... We have to pray and depend on the Lord to keep us from apostasy. He is able!!!!!!!! We have to "FTD" = focus trust depend on Him.......and he will help us to not deny him or fall away in the face of persecution - mat. 13:21.......he will help us to not get caught up with the cares of the world and riches so that the word is choked and the person becomes unfruitful - mat. 13:22.........he will help us to not persecute our brothers - 1 Jn 2:10,11..........he will help us to submit to the government powers that be ( unless submission means violating the bible ) Rom. 13.....................................Backsliding is not apostasy......backsliding is sinning.....apostasy is damnable sinning (higher degree of sin).........one can get caught up with the cares of the world and be backsliding but not apostate..........but if it goes to the point of choking the word and unfruitfulness - it could be apostasy.

No matter where you stand on these issues- grow=fruit=ready4anything.

Christians need to be ready to endure suffering. Pray for growth = bear much fruit = ready for anything. Bearing the fruit of the spirit will protect us from apostasy.We can endure anything with love joy peace etc. Play it safe. "once saved always saved" and "pre-trib rapt" are not biblical doctrines and could put one in an unready mode. "I sit a queen and will see no sorrow" v. I need the Lord +growth +fruit = ready for anything.

Pray to grow.......it is key........we need to grow in order to bear FRUIT. Our FRUIT is what is harvested.........carnal or baby christians risk apostasy......see the sower parable.The enemy strategy is to keep christians from growing to the point of FRUIT. With the FRUIT of the Spirit - love joy peace - we can endure anything........we won't fall if these things be in us...............

2nd peter 1 : 5-10........stages / degrees of growth - faith virtue knowledge temperance patience godliness brotherly kindness charity - faith the lowest and charity the highest..............for if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful..........for if you do these things, ye shall never fall...........

if anyone is wondering if they might have become apostate in the past - here is some comfort - Heb.6:4-6 ... it is impossible.......if they shall fall away to renew them again unto repentance. If you're repentant - it shows you didn't. Heb.12:17... (paraphrased) afterword when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance though he sought it carefully with tears........this verse makes it look like the apostate was repentant......the key here is that he was repentant too late. The inheritance is being doled out and he was rejected - this is judgment time = too late. see also Gen. 27:18-41 ; Mat. 7:20-23 ; Mat. 25:31-46.

4. Babylon

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I believe that NYC/USA = babylon/land of the chaldeans. When 911 happened - I took extra interest in rev.18. This may be the start of the exodus period from these parts............Notice Is.21:9 And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground. Relate this to 911.........Notice that Babylon is a great world trading and shipping center. NYC has the U.N. and wall st.......... Think about the 2 towers that fell and relate it to "is fallen, is fallen".....twin towers of babel? .........A strange light happened during the NYC Republican convention.............Notice Jer. 50 &51..........Notice Rev 17 & 18......... Does the EU beast hate the whore-NYC because wall st. controls the kings of the planet?...........Notice this is a judgment on the land so the brothers would have to leave at some point.........Notice that the fall of bab. is pre-trib (rev 14 :8 - 9 chronology ) The day of plagues in rev 18 would be the in-between stage and then the final destruction in the day of wrath at the end of trib..............Notice Is 13 : 17 and Jer 51 : 28 = the medes are stirred up against bab........ See Ez 38 : 11 and Nahum 3 : 13 = bab. is unwalled and open to enemies....... Thank the Lord for the fruit of the Spirit... we will have love joy and peace .......... We can do/endure anything with the fruit of the Spirit. Pray for Growth/Fruit.

Peace and Joy, bergfish

[Leonard]

Berg777: YOUR POST is full of man-made traditions. Your whole interpretation of the book of Revelation was not popularized until the early to mid 1800's. Prior to that NOBODY EVER HEARD OF 'THE GREAT TRIBULATION.' The phrase isn't even in the Bible.

And when speaking of submitting to governments, Paul never says "except if they ask you to disobey God...." So anywhere you draw the line, is man-made tradition.

Lighten up!!!

[Dad Ernie]

Hey Bergfish,

Right on! Keep up the good work.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Adstar]

Good post bergfish

I'm not to sure about you

[other one]

Berg777:  YOUR POST is full of man-made traditions.  Your whole interpretation of the book of Revelation was not popularized until the early to mid 1800's.  Prior to that NOBODY EVER HEARD OF 'THE GREAT TRIBULATION.'  The phrase isn't even in the Bible.

And when speaking of submitting to governments, Paul never says "except if they ask you to disobey God...."  So anywhere you draw the line, is man-made tradition.

Lighten up!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hhuuummmmmm:

Matt 24:20-22

Sabbath; 21 for then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall. 22 "And unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved;

NASB

Rev 2:21-23

22'Behold, I will cast her upon a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds. 23'And I will kill her children with pestilence; and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.

NASB

Rev 7:14-15

"These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

NASB

Well, the phrase is in my bible. Make of it's use as you will, but it is there.

[Leonard]

Note please that the phrase "the great tribulation" is what I am speaking of. The Greek so translated in KJV merely means 'lots of trouble,' and does NOT contain the definite article. Had the KJV simply said '...there will be lots of trouble.....' it is doubtful people would have added the definite article, "the" and written many bad books about "The Lots of Trouble!"

This whole novel interpretation of the Book of Revelation only started because someone in the early 1800's added the definite article to 'great tribulation' to make us think there was such a thing as 'the' Great Tribulation......

Now some inferior "translations" of the Scripture have actually gotten so carried away with this wierd stuff, that RIGHT IN THE BIBLE TEXT they have added the definite article, which does not appear in the Greek at all. These "translations" need to pitched into the nearest garbage cans: This is NOT translating, this is propogandizing.

[Dad Ernie]

Note please that the phrase "the great tribulation" is what I am speaking of.  The Greek so translated in KJV merely means 'lots of trouble,'  and does NOT contain the definite article.  Had the KJV simply said '...there will be lots of trouble.....' it is doubtful people would have added the definite article, "the" and written many bad books about "The Lots of Trouble!"

Greetings Leonard,

You are incorrect and it is my guess, also a trouble maker. The words "great tribulation is used only 3 times in the NT. The English comes from the Greek words "megas thlipsis". Megas is used 183 times in the NT and Thlipsis is used 43 times. When using the article "the" with the combination of these two words, they denote a PARTICULAR subject of importance. While we are in this world we shall suffer "tribulation" (thlipsis), but of PARTICULAR importance in the prophetic, is a time of such GREAT TRIBULATION as to be unparalled in all of human history. This is exactly what Jesus was conveying in the Olivet discourse. So adding the word "the" to the two words "great tribulation" IS appropriate when speaking of this time that was yet future when penned.

God Bless,

Dad Ernie

[irishcowboy]

Berg777:  YOUR POST is full of man-made traditions.  Your whole interpretation of the book of Revelation was not popularized until the early to mid 1800's.  Prior to that NOBODY EVER HEARD OF 'THE GREAT TRIBULATION.'  The phrase isn't even in the Bible.

And when speaking of submitting to governments, Paul never says "except if they ask you to disobey God...."  So anywhere you draw the line, is man-made tradition.

Lighten up!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

there are many words that are not listed in the Bible, that does not mean they don't exist..... such as "Rapture" ...... not in the Bible as a word, but the concept is there......... " Grandfather " again, not in the Bible, but there are Grandfathers, and the concept of Grandfathers are in the Bible.... the word "Trinity" is not listed either, but again, the concept is there, " Baptising them in the name of the Father, and the name of the Son and the name of the Holy Spirit....... "

we all ( as Christians ) go thru trials and tribulation...... that is well known... and as DE said, I would have to go side by side on that, that there is a difference between tribulations and The Great Tribulation......

mike