Split: Your Views... Women Wearing Pants

[Guest Butero]

 

 

Where does it say denim or pants pertain to a man?

 

Although girdles and bonnets were worn by Aarons sons (winks)

 

It does say,

 

Duet 22:11 Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together.

 

Although we are all pretty much doomed there unless your into 100% polyester

 

Divers could be seen even of things old and new

 

Mark 2:21 No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse.

Where does it say a bra pertains to a woman?  I have already addressed the question over mixed fabrics.  Had you read the previous posts you would know that, but here goes again.  There are 3 types of laws in the law of Moses.  1  laws that deal with God's moral code.  2  laws that deal with Israel's separation from the unclean gentile nations.  3  Laws that pertain to the office of the Levitical Priesthood.  The second type never applied to the gentiles, because we were the unclean people who they were separate from, and since we were made clean by the blood of Jesus, the symbolism changed.  The third type no longer applies because it was temporary till the cross.  The only laws that apply are the moral laws.  The mixed fabric law is a law of separation, while the law about not wearing what pertains to the opposite sex is a moral law.  BTW, even if you could prove that the mixing of fabric is wrong, all you would do is show another thing we are guilty of.  It wouldn't nullify Deuteronomy 22:5.  It would mean we need to make sure our clothes are not mixed fabrics.

 

 

 

No I haven't read any of your posts to be quite truthful, So I don't know what your particular beef is, so I couldn't tell you.

 

And I do know very well if I could prove the mixing of the fabrics is wrong that that law makes us all guilty which is why I brought it up.

 

A bra is a support, made for that purpose, there are elderly men who also wear such support actually.

 

If he needed one, Im not against it. How could I tell he was wearing one? It would be worn under his garments

 

Jeans are pretty much gender neutral. Cost efficient, durable and modest.

 

Im one who so wouldn't mind a burka just to get people to back off my jeans as compared to their Gucci stuff, because that is where the true comparison is being made in most circles. Meaning my stuff isn't as good as their stuff. But I wouldn't be caught dead in the things they boast themselves of. Its immodest in cost alone, the apostle speaks of not adorning oneself in costly array, and so I don't indulge myself of it.

 

Its quite unimportant to me.

 

There are modest dresses and they are not all expensive or immodest.  I provided a link earlier to a web-site called "A Christian Home" with links to places where women can find modest dresses. 

 

Just out of curiosity, do you think it would be sinful for a man to wear a dress?  Is he violating God's laws? 

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

Look, no matter what we argue and debate, the point is - "what pertaineth to a man" is not cut in stone, except in the eyes of personal bias.

 

Butero believes pants "pertaineth to a man", end of story.

 

The rest of us disagreeing with him do not believe pants "pertaineth to a man" any more than t-shirts or sweaters and thus putting a yoke on women that Jesus never meant us to bear.

 

No amount of argument or "evidence" is going to convince either side that they are in the wrong.

 

Truly, there is no life in us going around in circles like this.

 

So women, just remember that judgment is in the hands of God, not any particular man. It's not worth losing your peace over someone's opinion on another computer far away. I know oppression hurts, but you gotta let it go.

 

 

Gotcha, now I know his beef, agreed nebula. Its one of those beat the dead horse topics.

 

I'll never wear a dress. No man will see my legs except my husband and because dresses do show a little.

 

Now burka, to shut mouths, I'm all for it lol

 

Goes right over your jeans, you can disappear out of view for the service and simply rip it off as you step out into the parking lot. And throw it on again the following week.

 

$40 For church gear, wear the same thing, no worries.

[Guest Butero]

 

Look, no matter what we argue and debate, the point is - "what pertaineth to a man" is not cut in stone, except in the eyes of personal bias.

 

Butero believes pants "pertaineth to a man", end of story.

 

The rest of us disagreeing with him do not believe pants "pertaineth to a man" any more than t-shirts or sweaters and thus putting a yoke on women that Jesus never meant us to bear.

 

No amount of argument or "evidence" is going to convince either side that they are in the wrong.

 

Truly, there is no life in us going around in circles like this.

 

So women, just remember that judgment is in the hands of God, not any particular man. It's not worth losing your peace over someone's opinion on another computer far away. I know oppression hurts, but you gotta let it go.

 

 

Gotcha, now I know his beef, agreed nebula. Its one of those beat the dead horse topics.

 

I'll never wear a dress. No man will see my legs except my husband and because dresses do show a little.

 

Now burka, to shut mouths, I'm all for it lol

 

Goes right over your jeans, you can disappear out of view for the service and simply rip it off as you step out into the parking lot. And throw it on again the following week.

 

$40 For church gear, wear the same thing, no worries.

 

I do have a question for you.  Based on that response, you must believe it is wrong for anyone to wear shorts, or capris?  Is that your position or am I taking you wrong, or are you just saying you couldn't wear those things?  Do you ever go to the beach?  Do you feel it is ok to wear a swimsuit?

[GoldenEagle]

I wear jeans, I wont wear skirts or dresses, because I think, "what if there was a strong wind?"

 

...

 

It says nothing about wearing clean jeans. James even defends the poor man coming into the assembly in vile raiment. Shamefully many of our congregations cant even handle jeans, let alone whats considered vile (and clean jeans aren't "that")

Yes, I agree sister. It seems that sometimes people forget that God is more concerned about obedience (loving God, loving people) than sacrifice (don't wear jeans, don't do this, don't do that).

Where we live the ladies can barely afford clothing (most wear jeans) much less buy dresses or skirts. Many would feel uncomfortable anyway. I praise God Jesus loves people where they're at. Many have come to know Him as their personal Savior.

Reminds me of the song "Come just as you are". It's interesting what the Bible says about the sin of partiality.

 

Jams 2:1-13

The Sin of Partiality

2 My brothers,show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. ² For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, ³ and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “You sit here in a good place,” while you say to the poor man, “You stand over there,” or, “Sit down at my feet,” ⁴ have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? ⁵ Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him? ⁶ But you have dishonored the poor man. Are not the rich the ones who oppress you, and the ones who drag you into court? ⁷ Are they not the ones who blaspheme the honorable name by which you were called?

 

⁸ If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. ⁹ But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. ¹⁰ For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. ¹¹ For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. ¹² So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. ¹³ For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

This is a good reminder to me.

James 6:37

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

 

I learned the honorable art of finding a new church during  my 15 years in the Air Force. I'm a guy, so the first thing I always did was throw on some clean jeans and a t-shirt. It really saved me wasting time weeding out those churches that were too hung up on clothing and not on Jesus. I could care less about man's idea of what's "proper" considering that some of the best "church" services I have ever been to have been among believers in some pretty diverse places such as garages, equipment bays, fuel storage yards, aircraft hangers and shelters, ammo bunkers, barns, corals, and aboard ship at sea. I miss those sometimes - just believers and God with nothing else to get in the way. God isn't impressed with the outward, but the inward, and that's where Jesus starts: on the heart. The rest works its way outward into our everyday lives.

 

 

Amen!

[Guest Butero]

Your use of that one scripture is interesting GE as I would use it in reverse.  Obedience would mean women wouldn't dress like a man.  Dresses are not more expensive than jeans.  I know of many stores where you can find a dress that is cheaper than jeans.  As I also have stated in times past, had any woman been too poor to afford a dress for church, I would have bought her one.

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

 

 

 

Where does it say denim or pants pertain to a man?

 

Although girdles and bonnets were worn by Aarons sons (winks)

 

It does say,

 

Duet 22:11 Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together.

 

Although we are all pretty much doomed there unless your into 100% polyester

 

Divers could be seen even of things old and new

 

Mark 2:21 No man also seweth a piece of new cloth on an old garment: else the new piece that filled it up taketh away from the old, and the rent is made worse.

Where does it say a bra pertains to a woman?  I have already addressed the question over mixed fabrics.  Had you read the previous posts you would know that, but here goes again.  There are 3 types of laws in the law of Moses.  1  laws that deal with God's moral code.  2  laws that deal with Israel's separation from the unclean gentile nations.  3  Laws that pertain to the office of the Levitical Priesthood.  The second type never applied to the gentiles, because we were the unclean people who they were separate from, and since we were made clean by the blood of Jesus, the symbolism changed.  The third type no longer applies because it was temporary till the cross.  The only laws that apply are the moral laws.  The mixed fabric law is a law of separation, while the law about not wearing what pertains to the opposite sex is a moral law.  BTW, even if you could prove that the mixing of fabric is wrong, all you would do is show another thing we are guilty of.  It wouldn't nullify Deuteronomy 22:5.  It would mean we need to make sure our clothes are not mixed fabrics.

 

 

 

No I haven't read any of your posts to be quite truthful, So I don't know what your particular beef is, so I couldn't tell you.

 

And I do know very well if I could prove the mixing of the fabrics is wrong that that law makes us all guilty which is why I brought it up.

 

A bra is a support, made for that purpose, there are elderly men who also wear such support actually.

 

If he needed one, Im not against it. How could I tell he was wearing one? It would be worn under his garments

 

Jeans are pretty much gender neutral. Cost efficient, durable and modest.

 

Im one who so wouldn't mind a burka just to get people to back off my jeans as compared to their Gucci stuff, because that is where the true comparison is being made in most circles. Meaning my stuff isn't as good as their stuff. But I wouldn't be caught dead in the things they boast themselves of. Its immodest in cost alone, the apostle speaks of not adorning oneself in costly array, and so I don't indulge myself of it.

 

Its quite unimportant to me.

 

There are modest dresses and they are not all expensive or immodest.  I provided a link earlier to a web-site called "A Christian Home" with links to places where women can find modest dresses. 

 

Just out of curiosity, do you think it would be sinful for a man to wear a dress?  Is he violating God's laws? 

 

 

 

Men all wore what looked like dresses back in Jesus day so I still don't understand why the pant is that which pertains to a man.

 

You can show ridiculous photos of men in dresses who are definitely wearing what is meant for a woman, but you can also go to a toga party see the same man dressed in a toga dress and not make the same judgment. Theres a difference between a man dressing up as a gladiator in a skirt (retaining his manhood) or in a toga (the same) but you can tell the difference between those like things and a man coming in dressed as a woman.

[missmuffet]

 

 

I am just the opposite.  When I know a church allows people to dress like you described, I won't go there.  If we are talking about visitors, that is one thing, but not members in good standing.  When I hear of churches like you described, I am like, "what has become of the church?"  It makes me sick to my stomach people have so little respect for the house of the Lord.

 Really! You will not go to a church that lets someone who dresses like me in! What if a person who belongs to your church does not have anything else to wear but a pair of jeans and a t-shirt? Will you tell them sorry you are not welcome here? I am greatly offended by this and think that you and everyone else who would dare to turn a person away from church because of the way they are dress need to take a look at their own hearts. Is this really what Christ teaches us?  Did Jesus go around and tell people you are not welcome in my Father's house because I don't like what you are wearing? It is because of people who think like you do that the unchurch keep staying unchurched! This is where I end this discussion with you. You wouldn't want to associate with someone like me who dares to wear jeans to church anyway. The Pharisees where also great followers of the laws as well.

 

What about a woman who is homeless and wants to hear the word of God?"Sorry but you are not welcome without a dress or skirt".Now that is something that God would not like at all.I would think they were a bunch of snobs.

[Guest Butero]

 

 

I learned the honorable art of finding a new church during  my 15 years in the Air Force. I'm a guy, so the first thing I always did was throw on some clean jeans and a t-shirt. It really saved me wasting time weeding out those churches that were too hung up on clothing and not on Jesus. I could care less about man's idea of what's "proper" considering that some of the best "church" services I have ever been to have been among believers in some pretty diverse places such as garages, equipment bays, fuel storage yards, aircraft hangers and shelters, ammo bunkers, barns, corals, and aboard ship at sea. I miss those sometimes - just believers and God with nothing else to get in the way. God isn't impressed with the outward, but the inward, and that's where Jesus starts: on the heart. The rest works its way outward into our everyday lives.

 

 

Amen!

 

Maybe we should let everyone come to church in the nude?  God isn't impressed with the outward anyway?  You can't get much less expensive than wearing your birthday suit?

[GoldenEagle]

 

Yep sis there are others that do not, as yours does not. I (personally) ran into that problem when I first come to Christ. it was quite eventful and humiliating, but in short I was fresh out of the military and unemployed residing at my parents home at the time. All I had was the box of clothes I had shipped back from Germany to the U.S. When I entered the military I had just turned 18 then so I had nothing to my name. 

 

But I had just come to Jesus Christ, through a witness outside of the realm of the church. We did have a bible at home, so I fetched it and began reading the scriptures by myself. The more I read the more drawn in I was, and become infatuated with the book of Acts. I decided it was time to go to church to find these kind of folks. So I went to visit the church nearest my home. Everyone was dressed to the hilt but me, and I honestly thought nothing of it at first because I felt completely content, but it became more apparent they were disproving of my attire. After a few visits, I become increasingly uncomfortable, and then finally a service (with eyes directed my way) about honoring God with your Sunday best.

 

But what I had on was MY best. The problem was my best wasn't their best. I was humiliated and soon after left the church (my heart crushed) and for a long time after that I continued to seek the Lord on my own (which to be quite truthful) was the most blessed experience in my life (and for which time) I am forever grateful.

 

And I was more tender then, so what affected me then (whereas I would fall to tears at a drop of a dime) I sure wouldn't do today.

 

Thus the burka idea if any do that again to me, hate my jeans? Oh you will love this! (lol)

 

 Its the household of God not theirs and God has accepted me and people like me who are content with what they have (who covet no mans finer apparel) and those who would rather pay more attention to the inward man (where God looks) then the outward man (where man looks).

 

This one is near to my heart. A big deal to me back then, I was a babe in Christ and rather hurt by the experience back then. I had felt their rejection of me equated to the Lords rejection of me. So I thought, how can I even afford to worship the Lord? If this is all I have?

 

In time, I did "get it" that they were wrong, and God made it quite clear to me that was not His doing (but theirs) and showed himself wonderful to me outside of it all.

 

I think, what had (at first) caught me off guard was that most of my dilemma's I encountered came from within the sphere of various churches. Whereas way back as the church was being established we had the apostles who would key into those kinds occurrences who would step up to the plate and raised their voices on these kinds of particular doings. And its those kind of voices which seem to be heard less and less (or so it seems).

 

Rend your heart not your garments

 

God bless you!

 

Wow thank you for sharing. Yes! This is exactly the danger. Hurting those who are newer in the faith or simply the lost who don't have the money/desire to buy a dress/skirt. So sorry this happened to you.

God looks on the heart and not the clothes... Good point.

This in red is spiritual abuse - taking the role of the Holy Spirit in someone's life by basing spiritual maturity on personal convictions or personal preference.

I'm so sad this still happens today. This happened in a church we were a part of. We took a bunch of lost people from our apartment complex (we live in a very bad part of town) to church. The church members were more concerned about the kids being quiet, the way the people dressed, and their own little cliques rather than reaching out in love to those who needed Jesus Christ. It was very hurtful and disappointing. Thankfully, there are other churches in the area and several other churches didn't have the same attitude towards those who we were trying to minister to. Eight baptisms and 4 re-dedications later they are still plugged into these other churches who loved them where they were at. Praise God He is not limited by our own personal convictions or personal choices.

God bless,

GE