Does atheism make sense?

[TheCurseOfTheRodain]

You might as well choose to only die once (though Jesus tasted death for all Believers and as a Believer, you won't know it when you die (you won't feel it) - one moment you're on the Earth, the next, you're in His presence) and get out of here on the first boat. I hear that Lake of Fire (prepared for the devil and his demons) is going to be pretty bad. And it will never end. And God doesn't want you going there - that's why He provided His Son as the Way to Him.

[alphaparticle]

 

 

Having formerly identified myself as an athiest at one point, I can say that it is a fool's position, for after all, the furthest away from God someone can get on this Earth is agnostic, for the only way to say there is no God would be for you to be God yourself, because how can a man know something like that? He cannot, because he is not all-knowing, therefore, by definition there can be no atheists, only agnostics.

 

It is also ironic that atheists still have no answer for how life can possibly come about from nothing when there is no process that can be demonstrated for creating organic molecules from inorganic matter; therefore, atheism is a purely emotional stance, typically brought on through the pain of some horrendous 'religious experience' at the hands of an ignorant  or false believer. The Scripture does say the fool says in his HEART there is no God, not the mind. Unbelief is in the heart, and that is the root.

I think if you have fair confidence that God is unlikely to exist you can meaningfully identify yourself as an atheist. There are reasonable ways to do this. You could run arguments against God's existence that lower the likelihood of God existing in a positive manner, such as evidential forms of the Problem of Evil. You could actually try to form arguments demonstrating that the concept of God is absurd and that God can't exist, on pain of violating some law of logic, such as people do when trying to to find conflicts between God's 'omni properties'. There is a remaining way, which is to show that if God exists we should expect to see certain types of evidence that we actually don't see, so it's reasonable to conclude that God doesn't exist, such as, we'd expect to see certain types of evidence of an elephant running around a stadium if it is indeed there, that we couldn't demand if instead we were asserting that a flea existed somewhere in the stadium.

 

None of the three ways I outlined above requires someone to claim omniscience to reasonably be an atheist.

 

 

Hail, Alphaparticle.

Don't misunderstand my friend, I did not say that someone claiming to be atheist is claiming omniscience, what I said was that someone claiming that God cannot exist is impossible for that person to state, because unless they actually did have omniscience, they could not conclusively make this assertion; at best it would be only a guess. After all, what test can be performed to disprove God's existence? Honestly? How can anyone make the claim God does not exist and back it up with a 100% guarantee using verifiable, repeatable testing, as science demands (so that it is not an opinon/emotion/wound/fear talking)?

 

I actually had this lady once, who claimed to be an atheist, say that because of all the problems she sees on the Earth, God cannot possibly exist. I went on to explain to her that all she sees is the result of the sin nature in mankind thanks to the first man and the curse in the Earth, and that because of the sin nature in man combined with his free will upon a cursed Earth, 100% of the problems (pain, poverty, sickness, death, disease, hate, etc) in the world are accounted for.

She then said well what is God's problem then? Why doesn't He step in and correct it all?

I informed her that according to free will (without which we cannot love) God had to allow the possibility for all this to happen, though of course it wasn't His will. As well as the fact that God HAS corrected it, by offering His Son Jesus at the proper time for all of us (He couldn't just wipe us all out and start over because of His love for us and what would happen to those who were not redeemed yet (God cares too much about each and every one of us to allow us to end up with Satan forever when we could be with Him by choosing His Son)). And ultimately, all creation (except Man) will be destroyed and remade (we will have already been remade through our believing on Jesus (as being God Himself, restoring all mankind to Himself through His sacrifice on the cross, undoing what the First Adam did as the Second Adam)).

She scoffed and said something to the effect of "you expect me to believe all of that?"

I replied and said it's all still true whether you believe it or not, and He's still there waiting for you.

 

For any and all who have yet to receive God's invitation to KNOW Him and be forever free of sin and the curse, don't keep Him waiting - you don't know how many days you have left, and at the Judgement Day, only righteousness counts then, not how much you think you know or whether or not you traveled to Saturn or were a good person by your own standards (forgetting God's of course). And through Jesus you can be made the righteousness of God TODAY, all in an instant, just by simply praying to God (if you want to know how, just ask, and one of us will lead you into the Kingdom of God).

 

If you could reread my response to you more carefully, you'll see that I actually put forth some informal arguments about why I think there can reasonably be atheists. I don't see you responding to any of my 3 lines of reasoning in this response.

[TheCurseOfTheRodain]

AlphaParticle, how can you say I did not address your question of how can there be evil if there is a God?

"I actually had this lady once, who claimed to be an atheist, say that because of all the problems she sees on the Earth, God cannot possibly exist. I went on to explain to her that all she sees is the result of the sin nature in mankind thanks to the first man and the curse in the Earth, and that because of the sin nature in man combined with his free will upon a cursed Earth, 100% of the problems (pain, poverty, sickness, death, disease, hate, etc) in the world are accounted for.

She then said well what is God's problem then? Why doesn't He step in and correct it all?

I informed her that according to free will (without which we cannot love) God had to allow the possibility for all this to happen, though of course it wasn't His will. As well as the fact that God HAS corrected it, by offering His Son Jesus at the proper time for all of us (He couldn't just wipe us all out and start over because of His love for us and what would happen to those who were not redeemed yet (God cares too much about each and every one of us to allow us to end up with Satan forever when we could be with Him by choosing His Son)). And ultimately, all creation (except Man) will be destroyed and remade (we will have already been remade through our believing on Jesus (as being God Himself, restoring all mankind to Himself through His sacrifice on the cross, undoing what the First Adam did as the Second Adam))."

 

I addressed it right there.

 

I also addressed your law of logic violations with that same statement, as well as in my previous post about how can an atheist successfully argue for the formation of life (organic molecules) from inorganic molecules? And for that matter, how can they successfully defend everything coming out of NOTHING? These are 100% indefensible no matter who you are or how much someone wants to believe them.

 

As for the evidence of God - I don't know what you were expecting with that one - you didn't address anything specific. How about I have raised someone from the dead using the name of Jesus? Or healed another man instantly of colon cancer and upon returning to his doctors they could not understand how it was possible? Or my father, who is a seasoned, Harvard-educated, Tufts-trained ER Physician, diagnosing me an acute abdominal strain that was so violent it would take AT LEAST 3 weeks to heal and the pain was so great I burst into tears and could not even lie down to sleep, but I cried out to Jesus and remember passing out at that moment and when I awoke I was 100% healed? Or how about being healed from conjunctivitis when I prayed and laid hands on my own eyes according to Mark 16:17-18 and when I awoke in the morning it was all gone? Or how about my son's heart being healed from a hole in it when we prayed in the name of Jesus and it proven by the ultrasound? How about stocks going to specific levels in the name of Jesus? What else do you need to hear, I can go on and on, and this is just some of what I have seen Him do here on the Earth. My God I could share with you some testimonies of what my God can do.

He can be your God too, just open the door of your heart and let Him in - He's knocking on it RIGHT NOW. Just call out to Jesus and ask Him to come into your heart tonight.

[alphaparticle]

AlphaParticle, how can you say I did not address your question of how can there be evil if there is a God?

"I actually had this lady once, who claimed to be an atheist, say that because of all the problems she sees on the Earth, God cannot possibly exist. I went on to explain to her that all she sees is the result of the sin nature in mankind thanks to the first man and the curse in the Earth, and that because of the sin nature in man combined with his free will upon a cursed Earth, 100% of the problems (pain, poverty, sickness, death, disease, hate, etc) in the world are accounted for.

She then said well what is God's problem then? Why doesn't He step in and correct it all?

I informed her that according to free will (without which we cannot love) God had to allow the possibility for all this to happen, though of course it wasn't His will. As well as the fact that God HAS corrected it, by offering His Son Jesus at the proper time for all of us (He couldn't just wipe us all out and start over because of His love for us and what would happen to those who were not redeemed yet (God cares too much about each and every one of us to allow us to end up with Satan forever when we could be with Him by choosing His Son)). And ultimately, all creation (except Man) will be destroyed and remade (we will have already been remade through our believing on Jesus (as being God Himself, restoring all mankind to Himself through His sacrifice on the cross, undoing what the First Adam did as the Second Adam))."

 

I addressed it right there.

 

I also addressed your law of logic violations with that same statement, as well as in my previous post about how can an atheist successfully argue for the formation of life (organic molecules) from inorganic molecules? And for that matter, how can they successfully defend everything coming out of NOTHING? These are 100% indefensible no matter who you are or how much someone wants to believe them.

 

As for the evidence of God - I don't know what you were expecting with that one - you didn't address anything specific. How about I have raised someone from the dead using the name of Jesus? Or healed another man instantly of colon cancer and upon returning to his doctors they could not understand how it was possible? Or my father, who is a seasoned, Harvard-educated, Tufts-trained ER Physician, diagnosing me an acute abdominal strain that was so violent it would take AT LEAST 3 weeks to heal and the pain was so great I burst into tears and could not even lie down to sleep, but I cried out to Jesus and remember passing out at that moment and when I awoke I was 100% healed? Or how about being healed from conjunctivitis when I prayed and laid hands on my own eyes according to Mark 16:17-18 and when I awoke in the morning it was all gone? Or how about my son's heart being healed from a hole in it when we prayed in the name of Jesus and it proven by the ultrasound? How about stocks going to specific levels in the name of Jesus? What else do you need to hear, I can go on and on, and this is just some of what I have seen Him do here on the Earth. My God I could share with you some testimonies of what my God can do.

He can be your God too, just open the door of your heart and let Him in - He's knocking on it RIGHT NOW. Just call out to Jesus and ask Him to come into your heart tonight.

curse,

 

If you could, with a calm spirit, re-read this:

 

"

I think if you have fair confidence that God is unlikely to exist you can meaningfully identify yourself as an atheist. There are reasonable ways to do this. You could run arguments against God's existence that lower the likelihood of God existing in a positive manner, such as evidential forms of the Problem of Evil. You could actually try to form arguments demonstrating that the concept of God is absurd and that God can't exist, on pain of violating some law of logic, such as people do when trying to to find conflicts between God's 'omni properties'. There is a remaining way, which is to show that if God exists we should expect to see certain types of evidence that we actually don't see, so it's reasonable to conclude that God doesn't exist, such as, we'd expect to see certain types of evidence of an elephant running around a stadium if it is indeed there, that we couldn't demand if instead we were asserting that a flea existed somewhere in the stadium.

 

None of the three ways I outlined above requires someone to claim omniscience to reasonably be an atheist."

 

...because your response to me seems to miss the mark of what I intended there. I am not saying that I agree with the atheists, ultimately, but that I can see, how in principle, one could reasonably be an atheist based on the types of thinking I outlined above.

[TheCurseOfTheRodain]

I am not sure why you say to me to be calm, for I was not anything but calm (perhaps things can be read differently electronically than they are said...).

 

I do not see though how my response misses any mark you set, for I logically addressed each one of the things you said. The strongest point was that sin and the curse are to blame for the evil atheists are looking at; if they don't want to believe that, that's their problem - it's still the Truth. With the evidence issue, I listed many healings and miracles that contradict the problem of evidence that the atheists are looking for, so I am not sure how you say that was not addressed either.

 

Regardless, if we've come this far and it is not being understood, then may the Holy Spirit make it plain. Let's move forward. Be blessed, brother.

[alphaparticle]

I am not sure why you say to me to be calm, for I was not anything but calm (perhaps things can be read differently electronically than they are said...).

 

I do not see though how my response misses any mark you set, for I logically addressed each one of the things you said. The strongest point was that sin and the curse are to blame for the evil atheists are looking at; if they don't want to believe that, that's their problem - it's still the Truth. With the evidence issue, I listed many healings and miracles that contradict the problem of evidence that the atheists are looking for, so I am not sure how you say that was not addressed either.

 

Regardless, if we've come this far and it is not being understood, then may the Holy Spirit make it plain. Let's move forward. Be blessed, brother.

I'm sorry. By 'calm' I meant to say slow in particular. But I agree with you, I'm afraid I have failed to communicate with you with that post so I am fine trying again with something else.

[Guest]

Maybe

Edited December 6, 2013 by Guest

[MorningGlory]

Yeah it make sens :am arrogant to the point I wont admitt the most obvious truth for the simple reason that I want to follow my own desires and have fun in live nothing is restricted for me and no one even my own creator that I deny tell me what to do I dont care about the hereafter all am conserned in is this life and am willing to drag everyone with me now that I couldnt have enough strength to overcome the issues I have and subbmit to my god am gonna try to misslead small minds with all my powers so I can feel right!!

 

Maybe it's just me but I don't get what you're saying here, mona ya. 

[Pink Dove]

Atheism = "In the beginning...there was nothing... and then it exploded and created all things!" I was an atheist for awhile. But then I just couldn't look at the Hubble deep space field photos and accept that all that I stared at in wonder, and that make NASA scientists and others wonder too, happened with nothing responsible behind it.

[enoob57]

Atheism = "In the beginning...there was nothing... and then it exploded and created all things!" I was an atheist for awhile. But then I just couldn't look at the Hubble deep space field photos and accept that all that I stared at in wonder, and that make NASA scientists and others wonder too, happened with nothing responsible behind it.

Then you practice hypocrisy in reasoning for there is no reason   Love, Steven