Call for Crackdown on Gays Enclosed in Right to Free Speech?

[Guest LadyC]

ok, can we get back to debating the topic, and leave all the personal bickering aside? otherwise, the thread will end up locked down.

 

the topic is whether or not we can or should support lively for exercising his right to free speach.

 

the answer is yes.

 

let the debate go on.

[TsukinoRei]

ok, can we get back to debating the topic, and leave all the personal bickering aside? otherwise, the thread will end up locked down.

 

the topic is whether or not we can or should support lively for exercising his right to free speach.

 

the answer is yes.

 

let the debate go on.

 

It's a bit ironic then that we're also debating whether or not Lively is right to call for homosexual free speech to be illegal.  What, in your view, is the line between free speech and propoganda?  In your view is free speech something that some people should have, and others should not?  Is it also right for people who openly criticise a regime to go to prison?  

[Guest LadyC]

where is he calling for it to be illegal for homosexuals to have free speech?

 

where is HE calling for ANYthing?

 

he is simply voicing his personal support for a bill in uganda, and giving his personal opinion on what parts he thinks should be more lenient.

 

oh, and please tell me who, in america, has been imprisoned for openly criticizing a regime? i'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that you are referring to openly criticizing the government here in america, since this is a discussion of america's constitutional right to free speech, and not a discussion of any other country or its citizens.

 

and then maybe we can get back to the actual topic of this thread, ok?

[TsukinoRei]

where is he calling for it to be illegal for homosexuals to have free speech?

 

where is HE calling for ANYthing?

 

he is simply voicing his personal support for a bill in uganda, and giving his personal opinion on what parts he thinks should be more lenient.

 

oh, and please tell me who, in america, has been imprisoned for openly criticizing a regime? i'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that you are referring to openly criticizing the government here in america, since this is a discussion of america's constitutional right to free speech, and not a discussion of any other country or its citizens.

 

and then maybe we can get back to the actual topic of this thread, ok?

 

The charges are about an American inciting crimes against humanity in a foreign nation, Uganda.  This same man has been active in Russia as well, he has praised Putin - where not only are homosexuals arrested for their free speech but also many other political prisoners for speaking out against the despotic regime.  Lively has stated, openly and unapologetically in much of his writing and speeches that he wants America to have laws against what he calls Homosexual Propoganda   (free speech).  The truth of these statements is extremely easy to find, not only have links been posted but his own words can be found in the links provided in this thread and in youtube videos which I have encouraged others to search out.  Perhaps you are discussing a different topic on this thread, but I am confident that I am well within the parameters of the intended topic.

[Guest LadyC]

who are you talking about? lively? you're saying now that lively is "inciting" crimes against humanity? come on. this is really becoming absurd. he voiced a personal opinion. that opinion became public. can we move on?

 

the truth is, you want to censure HIS speech. it doesn't matter WHAT he says, it's no more offensive than what you are suggesting. but back to the topic, again, in THIS thread we are discussing one thing... his voicing his opinion in support of a bill in uganda now that it has removed the death penalty, but while also believing that it is still harsher than he would prefer. 

 

and AGAIN, his opinion doesn't matter one whit anyway. he can't change ugandan policy. in fact, he can't even change american policy. there are far more important things to be wasting energy complaining about.

[TsukinoRei]

who are you talking about? lively? you're saying now that lively is "inciting" crimes against humanity? come on. this is really becoming absurd. he voiced a personal opinion. that opinion became public. can we move on?

 

the truth is, you want to censure HIS speech. it doesn't matter WHAT he says, it's no more offensive than what you are suggesting. but back to the topic, again, in THIS thread we are discussing one thing... his voicing his opinion in support of a bill in uganda now that it has removed the death penalty, but while also believing that it is still harsher than he would prefer. 

 

and AGAIN, his opinion doesn't matter one whit anyway. he can't change ugandan policy. in fact, he can't even change american policy. there are far more important things to be wasting energy complaining about.

 

Please, with respect ma'am, what I said was that the charges that are being placed against him, and which he is now defending against in court, are about crimes against humanity.  I posted the court documents several posts ago.  If you don't want to discuss these charges with me, then that's fine - but it is well within the topic of the thread so I will continued to discuss it.  I direct your attention to the opening post;

 

 

Hello fellow members,

 

a Christian recently called for homosexuals to be arrested (read the last four paragraphs of this Christian Post article).

And now a non-profit organization called Liberty Counsel is currently defending him on court pleading his right to free speech.

 

I think that sexuality belongs to one's identity. The right to free speech is to be as open within the constraints prediscribed by the protection of others from discrimination. In my opinion, a call for someone to be arrested for his or her identity is discriminatory.

 

Thomas

 

 

 

Once again, I encourage you also to direct your attention to the court papers for the precise charges, and his three part defence.  It is not a long document.

[Guest LadyC]

this will be my last post discussing this thread with you. but i do hope you will consider what i have to say.

 

a news article, an op-ed, nor even a lawsuit that has yet to be dismissed is proof of any wrongdoing on his part. in america, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. he has explained his position. and unless there is something in that article that i'm missing, the whole lawsuit is based on his voicing an opinion in support of a bill in another country, the same bill that he also feels is actually too harsh, but is better than no law at all. furthermore, the lawsuit is being brought on by a gay rights advocacy group, which frankly, destroys any credibility of their claim in my opinion, and SHOULD at least bring their credibility into question by ANY God-fearing, God-loving Christian.

 

so really, i could ask (but i won't, because i really don't want to hear the answer lest i be tempted to continue to engage you in dialogue) why you are so quick to appear to take the side of gay rights advocates who seek to condemn and silence anyone who stands up for biblical truth. i could also ask, but won't bother, why you seem to want to silence free speech in a country you don't even reside in.

 

now, if that lawsuit is about anything OTHER than his opinion on the ugandan bill, then you are outside the scope of this discussion and should start a  whole new thread. 

 

if anyone else has something they'd like to discuss, i might jump back in. but i've grown weary of this merry go round with you and thomas, and i'm ready for a break.

[kwikphilly]

Amen,Lady C,,,,,,Amen