Where did satan come from

[ayin jade]

In another thread, since closed due to other circumstances, the issue of satan's origins came up, with some members a bit uncertain about this topic. I thought it worth discussiing. 

 

Where did satan come from? 

[Fez]

He is a creation of God, as is everything. Why God created him, I have no idea. I only know that God's purposes are impossible to fathom unless He chooses, like He chose with Jesus, to let us know part of His awesome and Divine Will.

[ayin jade]

For the sake of one member who has some differing beliefs on that, can you give some scripture to support that view? I agree with you btw, but hope to clear up some misconceptions about the devil this way.

[Guest ninhao]

In Ezekiel we see a king of Tyre.

 

Eze 28:12-19  Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.  (13)  Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.  (14)  Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.  (15)  Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.  (16)  By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.  (17)  Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.  (18)  Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.  (19)  All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
 

This king was no ordinary man it seems and the allusion to satan is strong. If this is describing satan we can see that God created him perfect and he became prideful because of his beauty. Notice lamentation for satan which implies mourning. It was a sad day for Yahweh when satan fell.

[Hall7]

In another thread, since closed due to other circumstances, the issue of satan's origins came up, with some members a bit uncertain about this topic. I thought it worth discussiing. 

 

Where did satan come from? 

  Why ignite this topic again? Yes I believe that we all know he was a creation from God...

[thomas t]

Good morning Sheba and other fellow-posters,

 

I think that this topic is worth being brought up again.

 

My opinion is, as was in the other thread, that it can't be shown in scripture that Satan is a creation from God.

 

The above mentioned passage of Ezekiel speaks of Tyre and calls this town a cherub, whereas Satan isn't explicitely mentioned. There is no scripture saying that Satan is a cherub, at least I don't find any.

 

Some argue that they see similarities between the Ezekiel passage and Luke 10:18

He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. [...]"

 

Tyre fell, so did Satan. But it isn't said that there can be only one entity that is able to fall. Even if some think of a strong allusion concerning the Ezekiel passage, the impression of an allusion doesn't prove anything.

 

 

I am not saying that I can show where Satan came from, btw..

 

Have a good day

Thomas

[Bible_Gazer]

2 Peter 2:4 (KJV)

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6 (KJV)

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

I think he was one of these fallen angels from heaven.

Not created a sinful evil being, but he became a devil.

Judas wasn't born a devil but became one.

[Fez]

Good morning Sheba and other fellow-posters,

 

I think that this topic is worth being brought up again.

 

My opinion is, as was in the other thread, that it can't be shown in scripture that Satan is a creation from God.

 

The above mentioned passage of Ezekiel speaks of Tyre and calls this town a cherub, whereas Satan isn't explicitely mentioned. There is no scripture saying that Satan is a cherub, at least I don't find any.

 

Some argue that they see similarities between the Ezekiel passage and Luke 10:18

He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. [...]"

 

Tyre fell, so did Satan. But it isn't said that there can be only one entity that is able to fall. Even if some think of a strong allusion concerning the Ezekiel passage, the impression of an allusion doesn't prove anything

 

 

I am not saying that I can show where Satan came from, btw..

 

Have a good day

Thomas

So Thomas by your reckoning, God is not creator of all?

[thomas t]

 

Good morning Sheba and other fellow-posters,

 

I think that this topic is worth being brought up again.

 

My opinion is, as was in the other thread, that it can't be shown in scripture that Satan is a creation from God.

 

The above mentioned passage of Ezekiel speaks of Tyre and calls this town a cherub, whereas Satan isn't explicitely mentioned. There is no scripture saying that Satan is a cherub, at least I don't find any.

 

Some argue that they see similarities between the Ezekiel passage and Luke 10:18

He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. [...]"

 

Tyre fell, so did Satan. But it isn't said that there can be only one entity that is able to fall. Even if some think of a strong allusion concerning the Ezekiel passage, the impression of an allusion doesn't prove anything

 

 

I am not saying that I can show where Satan came from, btw..

 

Have a good day

Thomas

So Thomas by your reckoning, God is not creator of all?

 

Hello Fez,

 

God wrote that he is the creator of all things. I wonder if persons like his sons are included in "things" and I don't have an answer to it.

 

But I do think that nobody provided scripture so far that shows it.

 

If Satan were an angel, however, he would be created as God created all angels, if I remember well. But I don't find scripture stating that he is an angel.

 

Thomas

[Fez]

 

 

Good morning Sheba and other fellow-posters,

 

I think that this topic is worth being brought up again.

 

My opinion is, as was in the other thread, that it can't be shown in scripture that Satan is a creation from God.

 

The above mentioned passage of Ezekiel speaks of Tyre and calls this town a cherub, whereas Satan isn't explicitely mentioned. There is no scripture saying that Satan is a cherub, at least I don't find any.

 

Some argue that they see similarities between the Ezekiel passage and Luke 10:18

He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. [...]"

 

Tyre fell, so did Satan. But it isn't said that there can be only one entity that is able to fall. Even if some think of a strong allusion concerning the Ezekiel passage, the impression of an allusion doesn't prove anything

 

 

I am not saying that I can show where Satan came from, btw..

 

Have a good day

Thomas

So Thomas by your reckoning, God is not creator of all?

 

Hello Fez,

 

God wrote that he is the creator of all things. I wonder if persons like his sons are included in "things" and I don't have an answer to it.

 

But I do think that nobody provided scripture so far that shows it.

 

If Satan were an angel, however, he would be created as God created all angels, if I remember well. But I don't find scripture stating that he is an angel.

 

Thomas

 

But Thomas, by your reckoning then, there must be other entities that were not created by God. Powers, principalities, etc?

 

If God is not the all knowing, creator of all, and "something" else also created, then God cannot be "all powerful"? He has at least "something else" that is equal to Him in creating? 

 

And if he is not God's creation why then has God have the control over satan that He does?