Is NIV false doctrine?

[Floatingaxe]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 The KJV Bible correctly says that those who believe "should not perish," while the NIV incorrectly says, "shall not perish."  Big difference.  They can't both be right?  That brings us back to the whole unreliability of translation issue and more confusion. 

 

 

Rolling my eyes here! Both are correct.  Seems to me one needs a lesson in English and to familiarize oneself with the use of Old English.

 

They are not both correct, and they can't both be correct because they don't say the same thing.  That very statement is ludicrous.  It is as absurd as when Obama claimed raising the debt ceiling won't necessarily lead to an increase in the national debt.  The only reason for raising it is to increase the debt.  There is a huge difference in should and shall, and if you don't know the difference, you need to purchase a good Dictionary.  Now I am rolling my eyes. 

 

 

Yes, both are using the correct terms and are saying the same thing. You need to become more familiar about the King James era lingo.

 

No they are not, and you can repeat that as many times as you wish but it won't make it true. 

 

 

Well, they are saying the exact same thing. I am assured and set free about this issue by Holy Spirit and from my own research into it, thanks.

 

Well, I am assured you are wrong, so what now?  It is like the man that was almost persuaded to be a Christian.  It didn't make him saved.  Demons believe in Jesus, but they aren't saved.  Some people believe in Jesus, but they aren't saved.  Maybe they should be saved, but they aren't, so your translation can't be right. 

 

 

Your being so adamant is not unlike you, Butero, but I will stand toe to toe with you about this issue, fully convinced that God is in control of His own word, and further convinced by the many lives I have witnessed and still witness that are transformed and empowered by Holy Spirit through His working through the pages of the NIV in their lives---which makes your argument MOOT. God's written word is not all just words on paper---it is alive, supernatural and full of power to change lives!

 

You aren't standing toe to toe.  You are denying things anyone can see for themselves.  They can go to a Christian book store and find the TNIV.  They can do a Google search to read about it and what main stream ministers say about it.  They can do a search and see a lesbian was one of the translators.  They can compare it to the KJV and see omissions and changes.  You don't go toe to toe.  You simply deny truth when it is shown to you. 

 

 

No--I deny your claims. Toe to toe against what you are claiming.

 

All I see is an alarmist who cries foul because one of the people who worked on the translation has been discovered to be a homosexual. People are sitting in your pew at church, some of whom have ministry gifts and are working in them, and are hypocrites, indulging in sin, secretly. Sinners are always going to be among us! That doesn't mean God is taken aback by it! Do you think for one moment that God would allow someone like that to interfere with His word? Get a grip. Have more faith in God and what He is doing and what His power can counteract in the world than that!

 

What about the TNIV?  This is the finished work.  Not every Bible started with an agenda like that?  Now, you want me to have faith in God's ability when it comes to his Word?  I do.  I believe God preserved his Word perfect in English in the KJV Bible.  You said all translations have errors, so I obviously believe in God's ability more than you do. 

 

Once again, how do you refute the fact the NIV translators created the TNIV, and how do you feel about the TNIV?  BTW, God allowed the New World Translation, so obviously he will allow people to pervert his Word.  He allowed the Book of Mormon and allows the Watchtower too.  He allows the Koran and many other false texts to come about. 

 

 

You can keep the KJV. As for me, I choose scriptures that modern man can understand readily. Unbelievers are more easily ministered to without all the archaic language of the KJV. Jesus comes alive to them in modern language.

 

God didn't 'allow' the New World Translation. Deceived man machinated to bring that one about! Same thing with Watchtower and the Koran. That is man's doing under the watchful gaze and influence of Satan.

 

As for the TNIV, I have no idea what that is, so I have no opinion on it. I am discussing only the NIV.

 

If you don't know what the TNIV is, you aren't in any position to defend the NIV.  The TNIV is the latest edition of the NIV.  They intentionally perverted the text to make it gender neutral, even when it went against the original text.  That is all the proof I need to show an agenda.  Deceived man brought about that abomination, just as they did the New World Translation.  Check out the TNIV, and look at what main stream Christian ministers had to say about it and then come back. 

 

You want an easy to understand translation?  I am not arguing over that now.  I am focusing on the NIV.  There are dozens of modern English Bibles, so there is no logical reason for you to defend the NIV. 

 

I just found some additional information.  The TNIV was so controversial and unpopular, they have discontinued it, and replaced it with another revised NIV.  The NIV is not a reliable translation for anyone seeking the truth.  For people who insist on modern English translations, I would suggest the NKJV Bible.  At least it appears the people responsible for it were sincerely trying to do it right?  I still prefer the KJV Bible, but that would be the safest alternative. 

 

 

I am in a good position to defend any of the scriptures, and especially the NIV, as it was the version I used as a young woman, and when I experienced a lot of spiritual growth in Christ. I learned from it and taught from it.

 

It is simply garbage to say that it is not reliable for truth.

 

As for modern English translations I use the NKJV, the NLT and the Amplified---all great!

[His Ambassador]

The NIV was not recommended by a couple of websites so I stay away from it.

Why do you let someone else tell you what Bible to use or not to use?  What do you know about the doctrine of these websites?  Are these websites KJVO sites.  If so of course they will tell you not to use the NIV or any other Bible except the KJV.  My favorite is the CEV (Contemporary English Version).

[OakWood]

Can I just butt in here folks if that's ok?

I only have a copy of the NIV, I don't possess a KJV. You've got me worried. What should I do? Am I being deceived?

[His Ambassador]

The NIV is used by many churches and won't harm you in the least.

[JDavis]

Can I just butt in here folks if that's ok?

I only have a copy of the NIV, I don't possess a KJV. You've got me worried. What should I do? Am I being deceived?

 

the only people doing the deceiving are the KJV only people.

 

You are just fine with just the NIV. 

[Floatingaxe]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 The KJV Bible correctly says that those who believe "should not perish," while the NIV incorrectly says, "shall not perish."  Big difference.  They can't both be right?  That brings us back to the whole unreliability of translation issue and more confusion. 

 

 

Rolling my eyes here! Both are correct.  Seems to me one needs a lesson in English and to familiarize oneself with the use of Old English.

 

They are not both correct, and they can't both be correct because they don't say the same thing.  That very statement is ludicrous.  It is as absurd as when Obama claimed raising the debt ceiling won't necessarily lead to an increase in the national debt.  The only reason for raising it is to increase the debt.  There is a huge difference in should and shall, and if you don't know the difference, you need to purchase a good Dictionary.  Now I am rolling my eyes. 

 

 

Yes, both are using the correct terms and are saying the same thing. You need to become more familiar about the King James era lingo.

 

No they are not, and you can repeat that as many times as you wish but it won't make it true. 

 

 

Well, they are saying the exact same thing. I am assured and set free about this issue by Holy Spirit and from my own research into it, thanks.

 

Well, I am assured you are wrong, so what now?  It is like the man that was almost persuaded to be a Christian.  It didn't make him saved.  Demons believe in Jesus, but they aren't saved.  Some people believe in Jesus, but they aren't saved.  Maybe they should be saved, but they aren't, so your translation can't be right. 

 

 

Your being so adamant is not unlike you, Butero, but I will stand toe to toe with you about this issue, fully convinced that God is in control of His own word, and further convinced by the many lives I have witnessed and still witness that are transformed and empowered by Holy Spirit through His working through the pages of the NIV in their lives---which makes your argument MOOT. God's written word is not all just words on paper---it is alive, supernatural and full of power to change lives!

 

You aren't standing toe to toe.  You are denying things anyone can see for themselves.  They can go to a Christian book store and find the TNIV.  They can do a Google search to read about it and what main stream ministers say about it.  They can do a search and see a lesbian was one of the translators.  They can compare it to the KJV and see omissions and changes.  You don't go toe to toe.  You simply deny truth when it is shown to you. 

 

 

No--I deny your claims. Toe to toe against what you are claiming.

 

All I see is an alarmist who cries foul because one of the people who worked on the translation has been discovered to be a homosexual. People are sitting in your pew at church, some of whom have ministry gifts and are working in them, and are hypocrites, indulging in sin, secretly. Sinners are always going to be among us! That doesn't mean God is taken aback by it! Do you think for one moment that God would allow someone like that to interfere with His word? Get a grip. Have more faith in God and what He is doing and what His power can counteract in the world than that!

 

What about the TNIV?  This is the finished work.  Not every Bible started with an agenda like that?  Now, you want me to have faith in God's ability when it comes to his Word?  I do.  I believe God preserved his Word perfect in English in the KJV Bible.  You said all translations have errors, so I obviously believe in God's ability more than you do. 

 

Once again, how do you refute the fact the NIV translators created the TNIV, and how do you feel about the TNIV?  BTW, God allowed the New World Translation, so obviously he will allow people to pervert his Word.  He allowed the Book of Mormon and allows the Watchtower too.  He allows the Koran and many other false texts to come about. 

 

 

You can keep the KJV. As for me, I choose scriptures that modern man can understand readily. Unbelievers are more easily ministered to without all the archaic language of the KJV. Jesus comes alive to them in modern language.

 

God didn't 'allow' the New World Translation. Deceived man machinated to bring that one about! Same thing with Watchtower and the Koran. That is man's doing under the watchful gaze and influence of Satan.

 

As for the TNIV, I have no idea what that is, so I have no opinion on it. I am discussing only the NIV.

 

If you don't know what the TNIV is, you aren't in any position to defend the NIV.  The TNIV is the latest edition of the NIV.  They intentionally perverted the text to make it gender neutral, even when it went against the original text.  That is all the proof I need to show an agenda.  Deceived man brought about that abomination, just as they did the New World Translation.  Check out the TNIV, and look at what main stream Christian ministers had to say about it and then come back. 

 

You want an easy to understand translation?  I am not arguing over that now.  I am focusing on the NIV.  There are dozens of modern English Bibles, so there is no logical reason for you to defend the NIV. 

 

I just found some additional information.  The TNIV was so controversial and unpopular, they have discontinued it, and replaced it with another revised NIV.  The NIV is not a reliable translation for anyone seeking the truth.  For people who insist on modern English translations, I would suggest the NKJV Bible.  At least it appears the people responsible for it were sincerely trying to do it right?  I still prefer the KJV Bible, but that would be the safest alternative. 

 

 

I am in a good position to defend any of the scriptures, and especially the NIV, as it was the version I used as a young woman, and when I experienced a lot of spiritual growth in Christ. I learned from it and taught from it.

 

It is simply garbage to say that it is not reliable for truth.

 

As for modern English translations I use the NKJV, the NLT and the Amplified---all great!

 

I am in a good position to criticize the NIV, as one of my first Bibles was a Parallel Bible with the KJV along side the NIV, and it was because of this Bible that I could see the two side by side,  I know the NIV is not reliable for truth.  It is simply "garbage" to defend it.  I saw scriptures placed in footnotes, and other passages attacked for not being part of "the most reliable manuscripts."  It was so bad, it led to my becoming KJV only.

 

 

 

Word for word you cannot compare the KJV with the NIV---it is also thought for thought. That is what you are not taking into consideration. In that respect, the NIV loses nothing. You only have the opinion that the NIV is not reliable for truth, because millions of people have received truth from it. To go to such great lengths to jump on the conspiracy bandwagon and try to impugn the word of God in a version that even Spirit-led churches are giving out for free to new believers---is really ridiculous.

 

The KJV only crowd have problems...IMHO.

[Floatingaxe]

Can I just butt in here folks if that's ok?

I only have a copy of the NIV, I don't possess a KJV. You've got me worried. What should I do? Am I being deceived?

 

There is an attempt afoot to deceive people by demonizing certain versions of the Bible---one of them being the NIV.

[enoob57]

The original languages were the inspired text penned from the person to paper by the power of The Holy Spirit guiding...

Now God says those who seek Me with all (strength, mind, heart) shall receive the reward of finding!

So that being this:

2 Tim 2:15

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
KJV

so the study of original languages seem the purest pathway to apply yourself too... else the KJV which was uniquely organized

toward excellence in translation process would be most trust worthy! The why is just observing the the modern ones and the

divergence from the original intent of the Scripture... Plus this from God has been preserved!

Prov 22:28
28 Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set.
Jer 6:16
16 Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths,

where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But

they said, We will not walk therein
Jer 18:15
15 Because my people hath forgotten me, they have burned incense to vanity, and

they have caused them to stumble in their ways from the ancient paths, to walk in

paths, in a way not cast up;
KJV

Noting the warning of progression from old paths established and knowing that in the last of days (which we abide) evil

shall increase and the love of many grow cold and many deceptions are around-  herein lies this question how do you

find the source you trust that 'IS' able to lead you to God's Ways that will please Him?

Love, Steven

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OneLight]

 

 

 

 

 

Let's remember that the Holy Spirit works with truth. If we read in one book the passage of John 3:16, but the passage is used in a way to try to disprove God, does that mean that John 3:16, when used in this manner, is incorrect and a lie? Of course not. The truth remains the truth. What people do with the truth is where the lie starts.

The KJV states "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

The NIV states "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Is there such a difference in the words that God cannot use either to show His truth?

God could use the Jehovah's Witness Bible if he wants to, as I have already acknowledged.  That still doesn't make it the ideal translation.  If John 3:16 is as deep as someone wants to go, I suppose the NIV is ok, but even here there is an error.  The KJV Bible correctly says that those who believe "should not perish," while the NIV incorrectly says, "shall not perish."  Big difference.  They can't both be right?  That brings us back to the whole unreliability of translation issue and more confusion.

 

Brother, we all start somewhere and, as you agree.  Truth is truth no matter where it is found.

Neither the KJV or the NIV state what the Greek states. The Greek said "may-be-having life eonian.". The issues is how to translate eche into today's language. Th TR places it accordingly:

G2192 echo ekh'-o, including an alternate form scheo skheh'-o; (used in certain tenses only)

a primary verb;

to hold (used in very various applications, literally or figuratively, direct or remote; such as possession; ability, contiuity, relation, or condition).

KJV: be (able, X hold, possessed with), accompany, + begin to amend, can(+ -not), X conceive, count, diseased, do + eat, + enjoy, + fear, following, have, hold, keep, + lack, + go to law, lie, + must needs, + of necessity, + need, next, + recover, + reign, + rest, + return, X sick, take for, + tremble, + uncircumcised, use.

What is strange is the the NIV, when using the Critical Text method, also uses the same word eche, but have decided to used the word to shall have, which I agree, are not the same words, but understanding the basis of each word, they are very similar.

May is used to express "a possibility", while shall is used also to indicate "plan to, intend to, or expect to". Why argue which word is used when the Holy Spirit can use either to provide the truth?

 

I guess I just care about getting it exactly right, rather than close?  Some people are ok with close.  When I was Pastor of a denominational church, I remember them going through sections of the manual, and discussing minor word changes.  Simply changing "shall" to "should" completely changed the way the churches operate.  If you say for instance that a deacon "shall" only serve 2 terms, that is definate, but if it says, "should", that leaves wiggle room.  They explained how words have meaning.  I have also heard Rush Limbaugh make that point more than once, and it is true. 

 

 

That is impossible while living this life.  It is like a dog chasing his short tail, always seeking, never finding.

 

No it isn't.  My KJV Bible gets it exactly right, and I don't go around claiming that it is full of errors so I don't have to follow it.  I also don't go around Bible shopping for a translation that says exactly what I want rather than what is correct. 

 

 

The original manuscripts are what is infallible, not the translations.  You want to hold that the KJV is 100% perfect, that is your conviction.  I realize that man makes mistakes and the main reason why we need the Holy Spirit to teach us.  If any translation is perfect, He would not need to teach us, for the real truth would be in the words themselves.

 

This will not be allowed to turn into a KJV only thread.  This thread is asking about the NIV and what some see as errors in the translation.

[OneLight]

I also recommend an Abington-Strongs Exhaustive Concordance with a Greek and Hebrew Dictionary.

I do not have the book and will look into it. I do have a library of other books, including books of Hebrew and Greek dictionaries. Tanks for the suggestion.

I tried searching for this book and could not find it. Can you provide a link?