Are they all going to Hell?

[makrothumia]

I was watching a video of Sam Harris criticizing Christians for believing that all believers in other faiths wind up in Hell, since Christianity is the only Way.  I got to thinking about it and the verse John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth and the life:  no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."  I have long thought that this meant all (even decent) people of other faiths wind up in Hell for not believing on Him, even though they never heard the Gospel.  But this is one interpretation of the verse.  I have come around to considering what sends someone to Hell.  It is rejection of Christ.  These hundreds of millions of people did not have the chance, so why should we interpret the verse to mean that God will not provide a chance for them in a mysterious way?  This is known as Inclusivism; many Christians, including CS Lewis thought this way, as do I.  Exclusivism is the former idea.

I have taken much chastisement for holding this view, but I think it is the only rational way in accordance with the Love of God to answer this perplexing issue.   I am a very enthusiastic supporter of missionary efforts and this view does not diminish the urgency of the Gospel at all.   Let me know what you think.

 John 6:44  44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.  

 

If you do not repent of your sins 1 John 1:9 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

Deny yourself Matthew 16:24 24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

 

You cannot serve more than one God  Matthew 16:24 24 “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.[a]

 

The Bible is the only Truth and we are to follow its instructions  Matthew 6:33  33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

 

Jesus says you will know them by their fruit Matthew 7:16 16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles?

[bestrfcplayer]

People who have done countless evil deeds deserve only the fires of hell. The only way that they can be saved is if they sacrifice themselves for the peace of mankind, like in a heroic event.

[Atwood]

Persons who go to Hell, go there because of their sins, and all are sinners. The verdict of condemnation is on all, regardless of religion. In the same way, the offer of the free gift goes out to all, everyone of any religion or lack of it. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved." The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[a-seeker]

 

I was watching a video of Sam Harris criticizing Christians for believing that all believers in other faiths wind up in Hell, since Christianity is the only Way.  I got to thinking about it and the verse John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth and the life:  no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."  I have long thought that this meant all (even decent) people of other faiths wind up in Hell for not believing on Him, even though they never heard the Gospel.  But this is one interpretation of the verse.  I have come around to considering what sends someone to Hell.  It is rejection of Christ.  These hundreds of millions of people did not have the chance, so why should we interpret the verse to mean that God will not provide a chance for them in a mysterious way?  This is known as Inclusivism; many Christians, including CS Lewis thought this way, as do I.  Exclusivism is the former idea.

I have taken much chastisement for holding this view, but I think it is the only rational way in accordance with the Love of God to answer this perplexing issue.   I am a very enthusiastic supporter of missionary efforts and this view does not diminish the urgency of the Gospel at all.   Let me know what you think.

 

 

Because, men will be in their specific DISPENSATION.

 

In other words, all souls from Adam to Moses will be in the Dispensation of their CONSCIOUS.  Why?  Because the law of Moses didn't exist.  So, they cannot be judged by the Law.

 

From Moses to Jesus, it is the Dispensation of the Law.  That is how they will be judged.

 

But what about the nations who never heard the Law of Moses?  Well, they would stil be on the dispensation of the conscious.  And the Law was givne to the Jew anyway, not the nations of the earth.

 

Fast forward to Jesus, and the Dispensation of Grace.  The Law no longer applies (though this does not mean reckless abandon of the "moral law").  We will be judged by the Dispensation of Grace - our obediance to Jesus. 

 

But what about people who are living right now and never heard the Gospel?  Same thing - Dispensation of the Conscious.

 

Then comes another Dispensation post the Rapture.  It's not more "repent - turn to Jesus and be saved".  Instead, it's "do not take the mark or bow to the image of the beast"  So, they will be judged differently.  They are not even among the uncountable number in Revelation, but are instead under the throne of God.

 

 

 

Some people try to excuse themselves saying "not everyone has a conscious".  Yes you do.  We know this because ADAM ATE OF THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL. God will Judge!

 

 

Scriptures also say that in times past, God WINKED (excused) their sins, but no longer.  NOW He calls all to repent through Jesus.  But obviously if someone has never heard doens't know to follow.  They will be Judged differently, and that is based on the dispensation that they lived in.

 

 

ABEL will be judged different from Joshua.

JOSHUA will be judged different from Peter.

PETER and I will be judged the same.

The person in the Tribulation may be judged differently from the Raptured saint.

 

Why?  Because of the different dispensations.

 

But all are judged for SIN (not necessarily sinS [which is plural]).  And that singular SIN is rejection of God ... whether its offending your conscious, disobeying the Law of Moses, rejecting the Gospel, or taking the mark of the beast. 

 

SIN ... is summed up in rejection of God.

 

That is what men will be judged for.  So, that is the root of Judgment, but the means will probably depend on their dispensation.

 

I've never understood the logic of dispensationalism so I would greatly appreciate an explanation.  When you say people are judged by conscience, you mean "damned" or "judged"?  i.e. is it possible to be judged favorably if you lived before in the time between Adam and Moses--it would be hard to condemn Noah to hell since, on this view, his conscience was clean.  But then that means it is possible to sin and still be saved, right (or was Noah as perfect in moral obedience as Jesus)?  And NOah was saved quite apart from Christ's sacrifice?

 

Which obviously yields the question: "Why not stick to one dispensation if it works just as well as any other?"

 

clb

[gray wolf]

I have heard a lot of good ideas since the OP. It has given me a chance to really think things over. Thank you

[Donibm]

 

 

I was watching a video of Sam Harris criticizing Christians for believing that all believers in other faiths wind up in Hell, since Christianity is the only Way.  I got to thinking about it and the verse John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth and the life:  no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."  I have long thought that this meant all (even decent) people of other faiths wind up in Hell for not believing on Him, even though they never heard the Gospel.  But this is one interpretation of the verse.  I have come around to considering what sends someone to Hell.  It is rejection of Christ.  These hundreds of millions of people did not have the chance, so why should we interpret the verse to mean that God will not provide a chance for them in a mysterious way?  This is known as Inclusivism; many Christians, including CS Lewis thought this way, as do I.  Exclusivism is the former idea.

I have taken much chastisement for holding this view, but I think it is the only rational way in accordance with the Love of God to answer this perplexing issue.   I am a very enthusiastic supporter of missionary efforts and this view does not diminish the urgency of the Gospel at all.   Let me know what you think.

 

 

Because, men will be in their specific DISPENSATION.

 

In other words, all souls from Adam to Moses will be in the Dispensation of their CONSCIOUS.  Why?  Because the law of Moses didn't exist.  So, they cannot be judged by the Law.

 

From Moses to Jesus, it is the Dispensation of the Law.  That is how they will be judged.

 

But what about the nations who never heard the Law of Moses?  Well, they would stil be on the dispensation of the conscious.  And the Law was givne to the Jew anyway, not the nations of the earth.

 

Fast forward to Jesus, and the Dispensation of Grace.  The Law no longer applies (though this does not mean reckless abandon of the "moral law").  We will be judged by the Dispensation of Grace - our obediance to Jesus. 

 

But what about people who are living right now and never heard the Gospel?  Same thing - Dispensation of the Conscious.

 

Then comes another Dispensation post the Rapture.  It's not more "repent - turn to Jesus and be saved".  Instead, it's "do not take the mark or bow to the image of the beast"  So, they will be judged differently.  They are not even among the uncountable number in Revelation, but are instead under the throne of God.

 

 

 

Some people try to excuse themselves saying "not everyone has a conscious".  Yes you do.  We know this because ADAM ATE OF THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL. God will Judge!

 

 

Scriptures also say that in times past, God WINKED (excused) their sins, but no longer.  NOW He calls all to repent through Jesus.  But obviously if someone has never heard doens't know to follow.  They will be Judged differently, and that is based on the dispensation that they lived in.

 

 

ABEL will be judged different from Joshua.

JOSHUA will be judged different from Peter.

PETER and I will be judged the same.

The person in the Tribulation may be judged differently from the Raptured saint.

 

Why?  Because of the different dispensations.

 

But all are judged for SIN (not necessarily sinS [which is plural]).  And that singular SIN is rejection of God ... whether its offending your conscious, disobeying the Law of Moses, rejecting the Gospel, or taking the mark of the beast. 

 

SIN ... is summed up in rejection of God.

 

That is what men will be judged for.  So, that is the root of Judgment, but the means will probably depend on their dispensation.

 

I've never understood the logic of dispensationalism so I would greatly appreciate an explanation.  When you say people are judged by conscience, you mean "damned" or "judged"?  i.e. is it possible to be judged favorably if you lived before in the time between Adam and Moses--it would be hard to condemn Noah to hell since, on this view, his conscience was clean.  But then that means it is possible to sin and still be saved, right (or was Noah as perfect in moral obedience as Jesus)?  And NOah was saved quite apart from Christ's sacrifice?

 

Which obviously yields the question: "Why not stick to one dispensation if it works just as well as any other?"

 

clb

 

Sorry for the late response.  Basically, its easy to grasp when you simply look at what actually occurred.  Consider a few things.

 

Was Cain judged for MURDER?

Was Noah charged for DRUNKENNESS?

Was Abraham charged for IDOL WORSHIP (even Jacobs wife carried idols)?

 

No.

 

There is a reason why they weren't.  The Law of Moses didn't exist yet.  Mankind had no law, and when there is no law, there is no transgression.  How can you be fined for "speeding" when there is no law against speeding?  You cannot be.  And you cannot have any form of a law in the absence of punishment for breaking it.  Otherwise, it will not be effective.

 

Those ancients will be judged on their conscious.  Basically, did they listen to the voice in their head to not do wrong, or did they ignore it.

 

The Israelites will be judged on their observation of the Law, as the Law is the taskmaster that teachers us the difference between what God expects of us, and what He hates.  so, take notice...

 

Where people judged for MURDER?  Yes.

Where people judged because of DRUNKENNESS?  Yes.

Where people judged for IDOL WORSHIP? Yes.

 

That is because there is no more excuse once you are told.  They weren't told in the dispensation of the conscious.  People in the absence of the Law ... cannot be judged BY the Law.

 

 

There are enough webpages to give you greater detail (or abysmally ignorant opinions) on the dispensations.

 

 

Just know that they exist, academically.  It's not a Biblical teaching, similar to how the Law has no classification such as "moral" or "dietary" or "ceremony" ... but to better understand the Law, we divide it into those segments.  We do the same for the dispensations.

 

Just know, also, that the BOTTOM LINE IS...

 

God will Judge the world for SIN, and that singular SIN is rejection of Him regardless of what dispensation the person lives in.

[gray wolf]

Isn't the dispensation of conscience a sort of salvation by merit then?  If an ancient person or someone with no exposure to the Law or Gospel listens to their conscience and does the right thing, isn't that saying that they are justified by righteousness?

[Fez]

People who have done countless evil deeds deserve only the fires of hell. The only way that they can be saved is if they sacrifice themselves for the peace of mankind, like in a heroic event.

That is not scriptural at all! Show me the scripture you base this on and we can discuss it from there.

 

There is only one path to heaven and the bible is very clear about it. The verse has been quoted on this thread, and it is the only one that applies.

 

Throwing yourself in front of a bus to save a baby if you have not accepted Jesus, will not get you to heaven, it will get you flat in the road, and that's about it.

[other one]

People who have done countless evil deeds deserve only the fires of hell. The only way that they can be saved is if they sacrifice themselves for the peace of mankind, like in a heroic event.

 

You obviously don't know anything at all about Jesus or the Gospel he brought us.....    and that's a shame....    for your sake I pray that the Lord would open your eyes to his truths.

[Guest]

The Only Way

 

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6 (KJV)

 

~

 

People who have done countless evil deeds deserve only the fires of hell.

 

The only way that they can be saved

 

is if they sacrifice themselves for the peace of mankind

 

like in a heroic event.

 

 

The Only Heroic Event

 

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 58 (KJV)

 

That Saves A Fellow

 

God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Ephesians 2:8 (NLT)

 

Is Jesus Christ

 

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 (ESVV)

 

And Him

 

The Spirit is the one who gives life; human nature is of no help! The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. John 6:63 (NET Bible)

 

Crucified

 

knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ. 1 Peter 1:18-19 (NASB)

 

~

 

And Beloved, Without Jesus

 

The Father loves his Son and has put everything in his power. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, he will see God's constant anger." John 3:35-36 (GWT)

 

A Fellow Is Surly Done