Fed up with wife!

[ayin jade]

God tells a husband to love his wife as Christ loves the church. Christ doesn't compromise but He also doesn't get huffy if we don't listen to Him. What Angel's husband did is perfect.

I have believed in the past that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the Church. Not overbearing. Not authoritarian. Easily entreated and so forth. But I have also believed that we are to respond to Christ as wives are to respond to their husband's.

I just can't see myself telling the Lord ... "well I don't want to do this Lord" and then seeing Him having to go around what I don't want to do in seeking my best. I mean Christ does that to be sure but more because we are not listening and out of His love for us. Not because that is the way that it's supposed to be. And in that regard I am not sure that Angel's response to her husband in this is exhibiting the kind of submission and yieldedness we are all to have to Christ through her relationship to her husband.

Now I hope this isn't too personal a question to Angel, but i'm guessing when it comes to the bigger things, you submit to your husbands authority without question.

If Angel is submitting to her husband's authority in the bigger things without question then why not in the smaller things? He who is faithful in much will be faithful in little and vice versa.

Again Angel please don't take our talking about what you shared personally but it is VERY instructive to discuss it in light of our submission to Christ and the example that our marriages are to set for the world to see that.

Carlos

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Carlos,

I havent forgotten this thread. Ive been reading it daily but have not been led to post until today.

Genesis 2: 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

23 The man said,

"This is now bone of my bones

and flesh of my flesh;

she shall be called 'woman,'

for she was taken out of man."

24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

Carlos, women are not to be little doormats without a brain or rights. We are to be helpmeets, partners, to our husbands. Yes we are to be submissive. Submission doesnt mean we no longer have a right to an opinion, or that the husband doesnt listen to his wife's words and even that the wife's opinion is always discarded. Loving your wife also means loving her enough to go along with her opinion unless it is truly a bad idea. One can still be a leader, and a wife still be submissive if she is listened to. If you are a leader in a business, do you refuse to listen to those who are under you? Of course not, they could have good ideas. You make the ultimate decision of course, but you listen to an weigh out the thoughts of others. The same thing with your wife. She probably has some good ideas. You may not have given her much of a chance though.

Carlos, have you prayed for your wife? I dont mean "Lord make her better so that I can stand her". I mean "Lord, help me to be the kind of husband that You want me to be, that Your light will shine through us and glorify You."

Im so glad you are willing to work on your marriage and your relationship with the Lord in all of this.

[carlos123]

Carlos, women are not to be little doormats without a brain or rights. We are to be helpmeets, partners, to our husbands. Yes we are to be submissive. Submission doesnt mean we no longer have a right to an opinion, or that the husband doesnt listen to his wife's words and even that the wife's opinion is always discarded. Loving your wife also means loving her enough to go along with her opinion unless it is truly a bad idea.

I agree completely Ayin. Well put! Her working three shifts without any sleep was a very, very bad idea though. She will do almost anything to allow our daughters something for Christmas. Even to the point of doing so much that she will end up without a job due to not being able to handle it. This irrationality absolutely drives me up the wall! I have never been able to understand a woman's irrationality when confronted with need. It blows my mind.

She probably has some good ideas. You may not have given her much of a chance though.

Of both you can be sure. I value her advice very much and don't often go off in a direction without getting her input. I know I can be bullheaded and too black and white. Not to mention relationally a bit of a flop when it comes to nurturing and maintaining relationships over the long haul. So her input is very valuable to me. At least in regard to things I am involved in or decisions regarding my own life.

It's just that so often I see crystal clear why something is not good and she doesn't regarding her own life and I get impatient trying to rationalize with a woman, not unlike most women it seems, whose feelings get in the way of her quickly coming to see things rationally. It just gets so frustrating to have to explain things to her and slowly, very gently bring her around.

When I say this I know that I must sound very hard hearted, umcompassionate, and very mean and to some degree I am (my wife would concur with that I think). I'm not proud of that. I deperately need to change and want to but I am just describing the way I am.

Carlos, have you prayed for your wife? I dont mean "Lord make her better so that I can stand her". I mean "Lord, help me to be the kind of husband that You want me to be, that Your light will shine through us and glorify You."

I used to pray like that a lot (the good prayer). Since I have just recently come back to the Lord I expect I will start doing that again but no I have not yet started praying like that again. I am still tottering and having a hard time standing firm in Christ.

Im so glad you are willing to work on your marriage and your relationship with the Lord in all of this.

Thanks Ayin. It's kinda neat talking to someone going by the name of Ayin Jade. It makes me feel like I am talking to some wise Eastern mystic who holds the key to wisdom and enlighment . You know along the lines of the personalities in the movie "Hidden Dragon Crouching Tiger".

I'm begining to wonder if I should let my wife in on this thread. Whiile there are some risks in that (not the least of which is that I would not want my wife to expose her end of things to ya all in that I might come to be seen as some oger) I wonder if getting her input in this thread and letting the Body of Christ speak into both our lives might not be more productive in terms of helping us the best.

A sort of public counseling if you will. I am not aware of any other place on the Internet where such is happening but it's something to ponder.

Carlos

[carlos123]

For those of you watching this thread I wanted to right a wrong impression I communicated about my wife regarding her not listening to me about not working overnight at her job.

Apparently my starting to get upset with her shut her down in terms of feeling free to explain things to me in more detail. The Lord enabled me to speak kindly to her tonight as she related to me how her day went and within that conversation I found out that she has made it clear in no uncertain terms to her employer that she is not available to work overnight (unless she can sleep during the shift which is okay by me now that I found out that they have the best beds money can buy at the group home she works at). Given that they do not allow people to sleep during the night shifts (they have high needs clients there) she will in effect never be working overnight.

So the short of it is that I overreacted (as usual it seems) and ended up suppressing her explanation to me on the phone yesterday.

Just wanted to clear that up about my wife and not leave a faulty view of her on this thread regarding this one incident between us.

Oh we also prayed for our daughter tonight. I initiated that one .

Our marriage is still going to take a lot of work before it is what God intends for it to be but at least some good steps in the right direction are being taken due, in no small part, to the prayers and support I have gotten on this thread.

Carlos

[refugepsa91]

carlos,

I haven't seem you ever "talk horrible" about your wife in this thread...you have always made it plain and clear that it was a two way street...that your reactions caused her reactions and so forth. You have been very honest regarding some of your, well shall we call them, lapses.

And the one comment that really made me understand and stood out...was the one you made on committment. You admitted you were very commited and so was your wife. We all know here that you love her....and I think your walls are crumbling every day.

Just a side note here. My husband pulled a women out of a truck that was on fire lastnight after a horrible accident...two young kids that were in the car that hit her head on were dead. My hubby grabbed the lady and by the time he got her to the ditch her cab of the truck was engulfed in flames. He was so upset over it...he came home and told me he loved me...he called his sister and told her he loved her...and wouldn't let me drive to the store lastnight to get milk. His words...life is too short and unpredictable...live each day like its the last time your going to see someone....after that our little differences really pale.

See what I'm getting at here?

Love and Blessings,

Angel

[carlos123]

Message below accidentally double posted and blanked out by me.

Edited December 5, 2004 by carlos123

[carlos123]

I haven't seem you ever "talk horrible" about your wife in this thread...you have always made it plain and clear that it was a two way street...that your reactions caused her reactions and so forth.  You have been very honest regarding some of your, well shall we call them, lapses.

Thanks Angel. Good to hear that I have not described our situation as a one way street with my wife entirely at fault. For sure it's not just my wife, it's me too. I tend to think it is mostly her as a matter of degree but then again maybe not. It's a mute point anyway since I can only change myself by God's grace.

And the one comment that really made me understand and stood out...was the one you made on committment.  You admitted you were very commited and so was your wife.  We all know here that you love her....and I think your walls are crumbling every day.

Thanks Angel. I cam very close to seperating from her just recently in the form of going South to work a concession stand and leaving her for at least the winter. I just couldn't live with her anymore. But that seperation would not in my mind have been for good. It was only in light of the fact that my own walk with God kept stumbling over her reactions to me. Our being together was not doing any good to either one of us an at the time it seemed best to seperate for a while.

Of course God intervened and through various circumstances kept me around. Not the least of which was the knawing guilt I felt for leaving my wife destitute and in need. But I couldn't take it anymore at the time.

My wife in turn started to treat me better and not belittle me so much perhaps in part because she realized I had reached my breaking point and could not take it anymore.

But whether I would have seperated from her or not my committment to her ultimately was never a question. Though she did not see it that way.

Her committment to me has likewise never been in question in the long run though there have been times when in a moment of unbridled passion and anger from her she has talked as though she does not want me around anymore.

But when our passions have subsided and we have had a chance to discuss things more calmly neither of our intentions were to ultimately dissolve our marriage. Only to alleviate for a time what seemed like an insurmountable wall of bad feelings and continuing hurt.

We are both hot blooded and prone to anger. Although my wife has repeatedly told me that I take her to be stronger than she is, and she is right in this, she is nevertheless one tough woman in terms of not only taking what I have dished out but also in being able to give back a measure of the same. When she is not walking in the Spirit mind you .

Just a side note here.  My husband pulled a women out of a truck that was on fire lastnight after a horrible accident...two young kids that were in the car that hit her head on were dead.  My hubby grabbed the lady and by the time he got her to the ditch her cab of the truck was engulfed in flames.  He was so upset over it...he came home and told me he loved me...he called his sister and told her he loved her...and wouldn't let me drive to the store lastnight to get milk.  His words...life is too short and unpredictable...live each day like its the last time your going to see someone....after that our little differences really pale.

Thanks for the enouragement Angel. You got yourself quite a man there! It is so often so easy to forget that our lives are but a breath of air. A wisp of air really. Here today and gone tommorrow.

I am humbled that you would deem it worthwhile to post on this thread to encourage me still after such a time as what happened with your husband last night. God bless you Angel.

Carlos

Edited December 5, 2004 by carlos123

[Kabowd]

I just wanted to say, I'm learning so much from this thread (even though I have a few more years before marriage is even an option for me!). First of all, Angel, I can't believe how much you sound like me (as far as being a clutz, that is). I'm known for being less than graceful..lol. (Btw..here's a thread where I talked about some of my "accidents"..lol). But anywho, I have always been strong-willed and opinionated too. In fact, I've butted more than a few heads on these very boards. My brother tells me I came out of the womb against my will and bossing ppl around..lol. Fortunately, God placed ppl in my life more stubborn than me who have guided me and taught me the importance of yielding to authority. I still struggle with it but I've matured leaps and bounds from where I used to be. When someone earns my trust and my respect, I really don't struggle as much with submitting to them [insert laughter from Super Jew..lol]. Okay, so sometimes I still don't like it, but it's coming much more easily for me than it used to. I used to resist and resist and sometimes still disobey. Now I'm down to only resisting a little and obeying most of the time

I'm praying that these things I'm practicing and learning will carry over into my marriage, if God should bless me with a husband. I want to be a blessing to him. Even though I'm strong and have a mind of my own (which I hope he sees as a blessing too)...I look forward to making him feel respected, honored and capable of leading me and our family. I'm learning also as I watch how my sister-in-law respects my brother and responds to him, and I see the way he takes care of her and listens to her express her feelings on things. He can be very stubborn and controlling, but she seems to really balance him out. She doesn't have to use manipulation to get her way (it wouldn't work anyway, cuz i've tried it already..lol), but she just makes sure that if she disagrees on something he knows how she feels but that she'll support whatever he decides. Overall, I think if the girl can trust that he will love and protect her and that he will always look out for her best interest, I think she'll be more likely to submit to him and respect what he wants and says. I think it's when ppl start looking out for themselves and being selfish, that the other person picks up on that..so they start looking out for themselves too. If I know for sure that my husband loves God above anything and loves me...really loves me (more than he loves himself), then I know I'll trust that he is capable of making the right decisions for us and I'd follow him wherever he would lead.

For those of you whose wives don't readily submit...maybe she doesn't trust that you love her more than you love yourself. Maybe she doesn't trust that you love God more than her and that you'll obey whatever He says. Maybe husbands should show themselves completely yielded to God and then their wives won't have to fear that they will suffer if they yield to you. Just some thoughts.

Btw...do you guys think that the leading/submitting stuff are things that should start or be practiced in the dating relationship?

[larryt]

Btw...do you guys think that the leading/submitting stuff are things that should start or be practiced in the dating relationship?

Yup

LT

[IslandRose]

Btw...do you guys think that the leading/submitting stuff are things that should start or be practiced in the dating relationship?

No. Until you are married you are under the authority of your father or in your case your brother. That is who you submit to. The courtship period is the time to discuss things more as equals. During this time you learn what kind of guy he is and how he would lead. He would also be watching how you react to your father/brothers leadership.

But once you say "I do"....Then.....ya do!

[carlos123]

If I know for sure that my husband loves God above anything and loves me...really loves me (more than he loves himself), then I know I'll trust that he is capable of making the right decisions for us and I'd follow him wherever he would lead.

Thanks for your sharing your thoughts Tess. You are definitely growing and it's great to hear about it!

I would just like to add that husbands have to submit too. It's not just the wife who has to learn to submit to others out of consciosness of God. It is true that the kind of working relationship we are supposed to have with the Lord is best seen in the way a husband loves his wife and a wife submits to her husband (among other things) but the husband also has to submit.

I am learning submission to Christ through His Body right here on this thread. Where I must yield to God's wisdom shared with me through others instead of rebelling against it and doing my own thing. I must also learn to submit to other authorities in my life like my boss at work.

For those of you whose wives don't readily submit...maybe she doesn't trust that you love her more than you love yourself. Maybe she doesn't trust that you love God more than her and that you'll obey whatever He says.

That may very well be Tess though I would maintain that whatever the husband is like wives are still to submit to their husbands. Even unbelieving husbands in so far as they are not asking the wife to sin. Otherwise they are to be obey God no matter what the husband says.

Having a bad husband does not relieve the wife from her own need to submit to her husband any more than I must submit to a bad governing authority in my own life no matter how bad the government is (again as long as I do not follow them into sin).

Btw...do you guys think that the leading/submitting stuff are things that should start or be practiced in the dating relationship?

Like IslandRose said I also do not think it would apply directly since as a single woman you would normally be under the authority of your father, older brother, or church leaders.

However we are all to submit to one another out of reverence for Christ so in one sense learning to submit to a Christian you are dating or other Christians in general for that matter, would still be worthwhile to practice (though I am not sure dating by itself is really a very Scriptural or good way to find a mate).

Carlos