Does Free Will Exist in the Bible?

[other one]

Im of the opinion that the only 'free' will is the will of God. For nothing causes God to will other than Himself.    Man has a will, but it certainly isn't free.  

 

Mans will is besieged by things out of its control.  Forcing upon it a decision if it was free, it wouldn't have to make, or many times wouldn't want to make.

 

For example:   Two of your children are drowning but are so far apart that you can only swim to one and resucue them.  You have to choose.   You have a will, but it is not free.  The situations surrounding you dictate a decision.  

 

And God controls those situations around you.

 

Quantrill

your first decision is "do I watch after my kids close or not"  it is your decision, and you are free to choose,,,,,,   then you are free to choose from the results of your first choice.  I don't think it was God that put your kids in jeopardy...

[Quantrill]

other one

 

But why do you have to watch after your kids?   Danger, perhaps?   Which is something out of your will to control.  You  still have situations around you that are not of your will.  And your will comes into play.

 

And, you can take it all the way back to Adam.   Adam had a will.  But it wasn't free.  He had God's command against eating the fruit.  He had Satan in  the garden acting or influencing their wills.

 

Meaning, your will isn't 'free'.   It is a will.  It just isn't free.  Only God has free will.

 

Quantrill

[other one]

other one

 

But why do you have to watch after your kids?   Danger, perhaps?   Which is something out of your will to control.  You  still have situations around you that are not of your will.  And your will comes into play.

 

And, you can take it all the way back to Adam.   Adam had a will.  But it wasn't free.  He had God's command against eating the fruit.  He had Satan in  the garden acting or influencing their wills.

 

Meaning, your will isn't 'free'.   It is a will.  It just isn't free.  Only God has free will.

 

Quantrill

it was you, not God that made both choices.......   god didn't put the kids out there...  why are you involving him in it.  did god choose for the people in this country to abort millions of babies in the past year......   shame on him if he did......  did he even choose for those women to get pregnant?  Why are you involving God in those things?

 

if i came over to your house and did great harm to your family, are you going to say god made me do it so it wasn't really my decision....

 

 

see where I'm coming from?  most of our problems in this country today stems from most people not being responsible from their own actions....

 

i'll repeat the quote........

 

LuftWaffle, on 21 Feb 2014 - 04:49 AM, said:

If there is no free will, then God is not a Father, nor is He a Shepherd or a Husband or a King.

If there is no free will, then all life is a puppet show, and God is a Puppet Master pulling on a string.

[other one]

and then quote Solomon       "all is vanity....."

[Quantrill]

other one

 

Your not paying attention.  I am not saying we have no 'will'.  We do.  But our will isn't 'free'. 

 

I am not saying we are not responsible for our decisions.  We are.  But our will isn't 'free'   Because we are beset by things which are beyond our control. 

 

How do you know God didnt put the kids out there in the example?    Perhaps it was a boating accident.    I guess God didn't see it coming. 

 

No,in your example Im not going to say that it wasn't you.  Im going to shoot you.

 

Your quote from Luftwaffle is fine, just take out the word 'free'.

 

Quantrill

Edited March 2, 2014 by Quantrill

[other one]

we have a different definition of free will

[LuftWaffle]

For example:   Two of your children are drowning but are so far apart that you can only swim to one and resucue them.  You have to choose.   You have a will, but it is not free.  The situations surrounding you dictate a decision.  

 

This confuses will with ability. One only has the ability to save one, but one might will to save both. I think there is a different between will and ability.

[LuftWaffle]

How do you know God didnt put the kids out there in the example?    Perhaps it was a boating accident.    I guess God didn't see it coming. 

This seems to be another instance where it is assumed that God must determine all things for God to have foreknowledge.  Such an assumption seems to me to be baseless.

[LuftWaffle]

 

 

Your not paying attention.  I am not saying we have no 'will'.  We do.  But our will isn't 'free'. 

 

I am not saying we are not responsible for our decisions.  We are.  But our will isn't 'free'   Because we are beset by things which are beyond our control. 

 

How do you know God didnt put the kids out there in the example?    Perhaps it was a boating accident.    I guess God didn't see it coming. 

 

No,in your example Im not going to say that it wasn't you.  Im going to shoot you.

 

Your quote from Luftwaffle is fine, just take out the word 'free'.

 

Quantrill

 

There is either free will or some form of determinism. So, if you deny that the will is free, then you're left with determinism.

 

If man is unable to do the right thing then it's impossible for man to be guilty of anything. Any deterministic system of the will removes the responsibility from man and places it upon the agent doing the determining.

 

We see this in our legal systems everyday. If a harmful action is outside someone's control, then we call it an accident. For instance if someone drives a car and the tire burst and the car skids into a pedestrian hurting that person, then it's called an accident, because it couldn't have been avoided. If on the other hand the accident could have been avoided, then the driver is culpable.

[enoob57]

We can dig all day long in these shadows but I will look into the light-

Did Adam and Eve have choice to eat or not eat? Did God set forth the

only right choice by giving them the result if they did choose to eat?

Now God says this about Himself

Ezek 33:11

11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the

death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn

ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

KJV

1 Sam 15:22-23

22 So Samuel said:

"Has the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices,

As in obeying the voice of the Lord?

Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,

And to heed than the fat of rams.

23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft,

And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.

Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,

He also has rejected you from being king."

NKJV

These two verses confirm in God's creative desire was for obedience and

the fact of other- God has no part in it but was born out of lie by satan

and all that follow are his children...

John 8:44-45

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father

ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not

in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh

a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father

of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

KJV

Love, Steven