Biblical support of Eternal Hellfire?

[ProphecyKid]

 

 

Whether hell is eternal or not, I would not want to go there because whether it's eternal or not, it's very very real, a very real and physical place..

 

(Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”) (2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment..) (Rev 19:20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.) (Matt 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.) (Matt 13:41-42 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.) (Jude 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.) (Mark 9:43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.) (2 Thess 1:9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.) (Matt 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”)

Eternal destruction... a destruction that lasts for eternity?

Eternal punishment... a punishment that lasts for eternity?

 

Like I said, I believe in a real hell, but I do not believe it will last for eternity. To burn for eternity would require eternal life, and there is only one way to have that.

 

Eternal life and living forever are not the same thing.   Jesus is eternal life.   Eternal life means at its least, being made alive spiritually with the very life of God within you.   It is more like a quality of life than length of life.  Jesus is the personification of eternal life.

 

Sinners will live forever without eternal life and according to Jesus will go into eternal punishment.  That is straight from the word of God as demonstrated in the quote above.  So if you don't believe in eternal punishment, you are disagreeing with the Bible.

 

 

How do you explain the eternal fires of Sodom and Gomorrah which is set up as an example of what will take place in the end.

[Guest]

What God Says

 

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36

 

Men Will

 

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. James 1:13-15
 

Deny

 

Do not err, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:16-17

 

~

 

If hell is not eternal, and we are telling the lost that they will burn eternally in hell, then they are going to look at God as an unjust God, and we will be misrepresenting Him as unjust.

 

Why would a God who is the definition of just torment somebody for eternity all based on 80 years or less of life?

 

Why would a just God punish a monk who has lived a pure life, but never accepted Christ, with the same punishment that he would punish someone like Hitler, or Nero?

 

Eternal  means no beginning and no ending... God created hell, so it has a beginning and thus can NOT be eternal

 

~

 

Pay

 

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23

 

Day

 

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

 

Whither We Worked Overtime

 

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Their feet are swift to shed blood:
Destruction and misery are in their ways:
And the way of peace have they not known:
There is no fear of God before their eyes. Romans 3:10-18

 

Or Not

 

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

 

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:23-28

 

~

 

Seriously Beloved

 

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
 

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:26:28

 

God Created Human Life

 

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7

 

Does That Mean Because We Have A Beginning

 

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 1 Peter 1:18-20

 

We Can Not Have Eternal Life

 

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25-26

 

Seriously?

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[donfish06]

What God Says

 

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36

 

Men Will

 

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. James 1:13-15

 

Deny

 

Do not err, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:16-17

 

~

 

If hell is not eternal, and we are telling the lost that they will burn eternally in hell, then they are going to look at God as an unjust God, and we will be misrepresenting Him as unjust.

 

Why would a God who is the definition of just torment somebody for eternity all based on 80 years or less of life?

 

Why would a just God punish a monk who has lived a pure life, but never accepted Christ, with the same punishment that he would punish someone like Hitler, or Nero?

 

Eternal  means no beginning and no ending... God created hell, so it has a beginning and thus can NOT be eternal

 

~

 

Pay

 

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23

 

Day

 

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

 

Whither We Worked Overtime

 

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

Their feet are swift to shed blood:

Destruction and misery are in their ways:

And the way of peace have they not known:

There is no fear of God before their eyes. Romans 3:10-18

 

Or Not

 

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

 

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:23-28

 

~

 

Seriously Beloved

 

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

 

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:26:28

 

God Created Human Life

 

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7

 

Does That Mean Because We Have A Beginning

 

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 1 Peter 1:18-20

 

We Can Not Have Eternal Life

 

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25-26

 

Seriously?

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

Absolutely nothing you just quoted supports eternal torment

[donfish06]

 

 

 

Whether hell is eternal or not, I would not want to go there because whether it's eternal or not, it's very very real, a very real and physical place..

 

(Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”) (2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment..) (Rev 19:20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.) (Matt 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.) (Matt 13:41-42 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.) (Jude 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.) (Mark 9:43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.) (2 Thess 1:9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.) (Matt 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”)

Eternal destruction... a destruction that lasts for eternity?

Eternal punishment... a punishment that lasts for eternity?

 

Like I said, I believe in a real hell, but I do not believe it will last for eternity. To burn for eternity would require eternal life, and there is only one way to have that.

 

Eternal life and living forever are not the same thing.   Jesus is eternal life.   Eternal life means at its least, being made alive spiritually with the very life of God within you.   It is more like a quality of life than length of life.  Jesus is the personification of eternal life.

 

Sinners will live forever without eternal life and according to Jesus will go into eternal punishment.  That is straight from the word of God as demonstrated in the quote above.  So if you don't believe in eternal punishment, you are disagreeing with the Bible.

 

 

How do you explain the eternal fires of Sodom and Gomorrah which is set up as an example of what will take place in the end.

 

How are the fires of Sodom and Gomorrah eternal? Are they still burning today? I don't know what to think about it but it doesn't line up with the rest of scripture. Most of everybodies theory of eternal torment comes from the term "for ever" which I proved does NOT mean eternity

Edited December 16, 2013 by donfish06

[donfish06]

 

Eternal life and living forever are not the same thing.   Jesus is eternal life.   Eternal life means at its least, being made alive spiritually with the very life of God within you.   It is more like a quality of life than length of life.  Jesus is the personification of eternal life.

 

 

Sinners will live forever without eternal life and according to Jesus will go into eternal punishment.  That is straight from the word of God as demonstrated in the quote above.  So if you don't believe in eternal punishment, you are disagreeing with the Bible.

 

 

 

1) Where is there support of this idea in the Bible? The Bible doesn't say that sinners will live a lesser quality, it says they will DIE. You are going way to far to assume that DYING does not mean DYING. Pretty black and white to me. Life is life and death is death.

 

2 )I agree with eternal punishment. It is punishment that lasts for eternity. The eternal punishment is separation from God. When someone is completely destroyed, the effects will last for eternity. 

 

Think about this:

 

Hell is a place where one will suffer God's wrath. God is omniscient and omnipresent, so he WILL be in hell, too, pouring out his wrath. Nothing living can be away from the infinite God. They will not be completely separated from him until they are annihilated. 

 

Rev 14:10  The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 

 

Jesus and the Angels will be there...

 

Psa 139:8  If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. 

 

But the Bible clearly tells us that they will be destroyed from the presence of the Lord:

 

2Th 1:8-9  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:  (9)  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

 

 

You can't be away from the presence of the Lord for eternity if you are in hell, or in the lake of fire, because the Lord will be there!

 

Just try to forget your presupposition and look through the EVIDENCE supported. If one will suffer eternal torment, then 2 Thes 1:9 is contrary to the other 2 verses. 

[kwikphilly]

Blessings donfish,

      I only see classic example of pulling Scriptures out of context to justify & validate ones own cause as you seem to harp on Sodom & Gomorrah.......perhaps they are still burning in another realm,I do not know these things but for me every written Word is true,I am not going to just continue to quote Scripture to you as did Fresno Joe & Shiloh because you refuse to accept Gods Timeless Truth,you accept the Greek interpretation for eternal life as being forever but not when the same is used to describe hell fire?????If the words used to describe eternal punishment are used for eternal salvation that what clicks in your mind to accept one & not the other?Makes no sense?

       And then we have our new member,ProphecyKid who states these things of GOD ALMIGHTY are not fair of just,Gods ways are not our ways my Brother,better re-read His Word & accept things for what they are,I would like to imagine the kindly old lady that did good deeds for 92yrs would be allowed a little leeway but the Word says because she has not accepted Christ as Lord & Savior she will not be reconciled to our Father(& she was give many opportunity in 92yrs)but I cannot twist Gods Word to suit my personal preferrance.......You are both in my prayers for a refreshed indwelling that the Holy Spirit will bring you into Wisdom & Understanding....Glory to God in the Highest!

                                                                                                                                       With love,in Christ-Kwik

[ProphecyKid]

Blessings donfish,

      I only see classic example of pulling Scriptures out of context to justify & validate ones own cause as you seem to harp on Sodom & Gomorrah.......perhaps they are still burning in another realm,I do not know these things but for me every written Word is true,I am not going to just continue to quote Scripture to you as did Fresno Joe & Shiloh because you refuse to accept Gods Timeless Truth,you accept the Greek interpretation for eternal life as being forever but not when the same is used to describe hell fire?????If the words used to describe eternal punishment are used for eternal salvation that what clicks in your mind to accept one & not the other?Makes no sense?

       And then we have our new member,ProphecyKid who states these things of GOD ALMIGHTY are not fair of just,Gods ways are not our ways my Brother,better re-read His Word & accept things for what they are,I would like to imagine the kindly old lady that did good deeds for 92yrs would be allowed a little leeway but the Word says because she has not accepted Christ as Lord & Savior she will not be reconciled to our Father(& she was give many opportunity in 92yrs)but I cannot twist Gods Word to suit my personal preferrance.......You are both in my prayers for a refreshed indwelling that the Holy Spirit will bring you into Wisdom & Understanding....Glory to God in the Highest!

                                                                                                                                       With love,in Christ-Kwik

 

You are not using any reasoning. Both myself and donfish06 have used good common sense and reasoning along with the scriptures to prove our points. Your answer to Sodom and Gomorrah still burning is that "perhaps" they are burning in another realm. Well then its clear that you don't know. If you don't know then how can you be so sure that your understanding is correct. 

 

Yes you cannot address or refute any of the points raised, you just use the talking point that we are twisting scripture. What is your answer to Johm 3:16, what does it mean to perish? What does it mean when it says in Psalms 37 that into smoke the wicked shall consume away. How does the lake of fire keep burning when God creates a brand new heaven and a new earth and all the former things are passed away. Instead of accusing us of twisting scripture, address these points. But you can't do it, cant you. 

[Guest shiloh357]

1) Where is there support of this idea in the Bible? The Bible doesn't say that sinners will live a lesser quality, it says they will DIE. You are going way to far to assume that DYING does not mean DYING. Pretty black and white to me. Life is life and death is death.

 

 

 

Sinners are already dead.   Spiritual death is not death in the sense of ceasing to exist.   It is a state of separation from God.   They will stand before God alive to be judged but in a state of spiritual separation from Him.  They have not been made "alive" by the Holy Spirit.   So you are taking the way we view death physically as cessation of existence and wrongly applying to a spiritual condition.

 

 )I agree with eternal punishment. It is punishment that lasts for eternity. The eternal punishment is separation from God. When someone is completely destroyed, the effects will last for eternity. 

 

Eternal punishment isn't separation from God.  Separation from God is the current spiritual condition.  The punishment is yet to come for those who are still alive but choose to die in continued separation from God. It will be an awful existence of absolute and continuous perpetual destruction and no hope for relief. 

Think about this:

 

Hell is a place where one will suffer God's wrath. God is omniscient and omnipresent, so he WILL be in hell, too, pouring out his wrath. Nothing living can be away from the infinite God. They will not be completely separated from him until they are annihilated. 

 

God will not be in hell.  Hell is the one place where God's presence isn't.  That doesn't damage God's omniscience.   There is no annihilation.  It is a perpetual and ongoing destruction that will continue for all eternity.  Psalm 139:8 is referring to the grave, it is not referring to hell as in the abode of the dead.  So it is not saying that God is in hell.  Given the nature of God, it would rather far fetched to claim that God is in hell.

 

II Thess. 1;8-9 refers to people who will be suffering for all eternally away from God's presence.  Their suffering will be forever and it will done outside of God's presence.  Hell  and subsequently the lake of fire, is the absence of God's presence in the most absolute sense. 

 

Revelation 14:10-11 seems to indicate that their suffering will be forever and that there is no annihilation.  I note that you only cited verse 10 without verse 11 which continues the thought and appears to deny any kind of annihilation.

 

I would also point out that your method of exegesis depends on grabbing individual verses out of their original context and in fact mixing contexts.  Any one can grab individual verses from different parts of the Bible and make the Bible appear to say whatever they want it to say.  That is one reason why I reject annihilationism.  It is not based on solid exegesis and is not a doctrine of Scripture.  It is the product stringing verses together like lights on a Christmas tree.

[Reformed Baptist]

Matthew 25:46 "And these will go away into everlasting (αἰώνιον) punishment, but the righteous into eternal (αἰώνιον) life." (NKJ)

 

According to this contrast that Jesus set up, if the punishment (hell) is not eternal then nor is the life. 

[ProphecyKid]

Based on the majority view on this thread we may need to edit the bible a little bit. 

 

OLD:

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

 

NEW:

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is eternal life in torment; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

 

I guess both the saved and the lost would have eternal life.