Ezekial 38, 39 - before or after the Tribulation?

[rollinTHUNDER]

A few points:

 

1/ Is the Gog, Magog war of Ezekiel the same as the Gog, Magog war of Revelation?

No, I believe these are separated by 1000 years. The leader, Gog, is not a man. He is the prince of Rosh, which many believe is the territory of Russia today. I believe he is an angel on the dark side, opposite Michael, the prince that protects God's people.

 

2/ Why does the mentioning of weapons used for fuel for seven years apply if this war is after the Millennium rule? Does the seven years not apply to the Great Trib?

There's not a whole lot to go on about the seven years. It's very vague and can be placed anywhere, but I believe it will be on this side of the millennium and possibly into it.

 

3/ How can Israel be living in peace and without walls if the Ezekiel war is not after the Trib as there will be no peace on Earth until then.

I believe Ezekiel 38 will begin after the abomination of desolation and this could very easily be the great tribulation that Christ mentioned and the time of trouble in Dan. 12:1. And since God, Himself, intervenes, this may be where the tribulation of those days is cut short for the sake of the elect, otherwise no flesh would be saved.

 

4/ If the Ezekiel war is before the Trib, does it come after the Psalm 83 war, or is this the same war?

I see the Psalm 83 war before Daniel's 70th week begins, and will probably be the reason a peace settlement is initiated and confirmed.

 

5/ If the Ezekiel war is before the trib, are we possibly seeing signs now that will lead up to it?

I believe we will see the Psalm 83 war before Daniel's 70th week, then Ezekiel 38 as the great tribulation (rapture), followed by Armageddon, which is the judgment of the nations (sheep & goats) at the end of the age.

Cheers

[ARGOSY]

I'm not sure that is scripturally accurate. What makes you think that Israel will have more freedom to choose? Are you saying that everybody will be expected to take the mark, but Israel will be exempt?

 

 

 

That is definitely what I believe the scriptures are hinting at. Its the fact that Jews are protected and the number of Jews able to receive salvation just before the second coming makes me think they are temporarily exempt. If they had the mark they would not be able to be saved, but the 144 000 and the masses in Joel all receive salvation close to the day of the Lord, and so they obviously have not been marked yet, the way of salvation is still open to them. Have you got an alternative explanation?

 

Also the wording in some translations is like this: (KJV)

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

That verse means there are alternative ways to buy and sell, here's some possibilities:

Mark of the beast = microchip (mainly for western countries)

The number of the beast = Islam (Moslems may buy or sell)

The name of the beast = the citizens of the beast country (the people of the false Christ)

Edited January 14, 2014 by ARGOSY

[Spock]

The only problem with this is that Israel is not at peace during the Great Trib, at least not peace as I would call it. There is meant to be a time of massive persecutions taking place. People will be beheaded for not taking the mark of the Beast and those who take the mark have no prospect of salvation. Yet after the war, Israel is rewarded.

 

I believe Israel will be at peace during the great tribulation. I believe Revelation 12 alludes to this peace. Israel (the woman) is protected.

Persecution takes place everywhere else, but not in Israel, ethnic Israel is protected, whether Judaism or Christian. We know from Joel 2 that there will be many Jews getting saved just before the Day of the Lord. The holy Spirit pours out on them. They have more religious freedom to choose , its assumed they have less pressure to take the mark than the rest of the world. Even the second coming awaits the 144 000, so huge masses of Jews get saved right until the second coming. 

 

After the war Israel is rewarded during the millenium. Its Israel's period of peace under the Messiah.

Hi brother argosy,

Love reading your posts by the way.

I'm scratching my head over one thing you said, so if you wouldn't mind a wee bit more clarity here.

You said you believed Israel was at peace during the great trib, which I think most of us agree is the last 3.5 years of Daniels 70th week. I also believe it commences at the abomination of desolation, with the ac defaming the temple and proclaiming he is God and to be worshipped. This doesn't sound like a good peaceful thing for Israel.

Please explain where we differ in our thoughts, or have I misunderstood you here.

Thanks.

[Guest shiloh357]

1/ Is the Gog, Magog war of Ezekiel the same as the Gog, Magog war of Revelation?

 

No. The war mentioned in Eze. 38-39 is a regional war mounted by a coolition of nations that attack Israel from the North.  The war of Armageddon metioned in Revelation is a war in which all of the nations of the world are aligned against Israel.

 

 

[OakWood]

 

I'm not sure that is scripturally accurate. What makes you think that Israel will have more freedom to choose? Are you saying that everybody will be expected to take the mark, but Israel will be exempt?

 

 

 

That is definitely what I believe the scriptures are hinting at. Its the fact that Jews are protected and the number of Jews able to receive salvation just before the second coming makes me think they are temporarily exempt. If they had the mark they would not be able to be saved, but the 144 000 and the masses in Joel all receive salvation close to the day of the Lord, and so they obviously have not been marked yet, the way of salvation is still open to them. Have you got an alternative explanation?

 

Also the wording in some translations is like this: (KJV)

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

That verse means there are alternative ways to buy and sell, here's some possibilities:

Mark of the beast = microchip (mainly for western countries)

The number of the beast = Islam (Moslems may buy or sell)

The name of the beast = the citizens of the beast country (the people of the false Christ)

 

 

I thought that the 144,000 fled and went into hiding.

[ARGOSY]

 

Hi brother argosy,

Love reading your posts by the way.

I'm scratching my head over one thing you said, so if you wouldn't mind a wee bit more clarity here.

You said you believed Israel was at peace during the great trib, which I think most of us agree is the last 3.5 years of Daniels 70th week. I also believe it commences at the abomination of desolation, with the ac defaming the temple and proclaiming he is God and to be worshipped. This doesn't sound like a good peaceful thing for Israel.

Please explain where we differ in our thoughts, or have I misunderstood you here.

Thanks.

 

Hi Spock, its not a good peaceful time for Israel, its a bad peaceful time for Israel. I relate the Gog attack to the Joel attack. Both armies are described as the northern army (Joel 2:20, Ezekiel 39:2). In both cases Israel is in need of repentance, so the great tribulation period is a time of compromise for Israel, compromise with the world, that is why Ezekiel describes them at peace, that is why Joel describes them as needing repentance.

 

Ezekiel 39:26 They will forget their shame and all the unfaithfulness they showed toward me when they lived in safety in their land with no one to make them afraid.

Joel 2:The day of the Lord is great; it is dreadful.  Who can endure it. "Even now,” declares the Lord,  “return to me with all your heart, with fasting and weeping and mourning.

 

Jesus warns of false Christs in Matthew 24 associated with these deceiving sign and wonders, and deceiving signs and wonders are also associated with the antichrist in 2 Thess 2 and Rev 13, so the obvious deduction from Jesus' words and from the venue of the antichrist's coming to power (the temple mount) is that in fact the antichrist will be a false Christ (false Jewish leader). Adnan Oktar, a widely renowned and popular Moslem scholar is already promoting the idea of a Jewish Messiah for world peace, and so the concept of Islam accepting a Jewish Messiah is not as far-fetched as we may think.

 

During this period, many Jews come to Christ, I suspect the reason for this is that they are a faithful remnant who are not quite convinced of the false Messiah's credentials and behaviour, this stirs up their desire for the truth and they then recognize who their true Messiah is, Jesus. Many will come to Christ then, while the rest of the world church goes underground. The two witnesses are however completely public, and Rev 12 speaks of this protection for Israel, and so I suspect that this antichrist will give the Jews time to accept him as their Messiah. He will tolerate the hesitancy of the Jews and give them 3.5 years "grace period" to accept them as the Messiah. They are therefore exempt from the mark, and may get saved right until the second coming, as per Joel's day of the Lord.

[ARGOSY]

I thought that the 144,000 fled and went into hiding.

 

 

 

I checked out Rev 7 and Rev 14 and can't see any hint that they went into hiding. My view is the rest of the church is in hiding, but not the Jewish church.

[ARGOSY]

 

1/ Is the Gog, Magog war of Ezekiel the same as the Gog, Magog war of Revelation?

 

No. The war mentioned in Eze. 38-39 is a regional war mounted by a coolition of nations that attack Israel from the North.  The war of Armageddon metioned in Revelation is a war in which all of the nations of the world are aligned against Israel.

 

Even the coalition of Ezekiel is from the north, the south and the east. (Meshech, Tubal, Gomer, Togarmah, Persia, Ethiopia, Libya) AND many people.

 

Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

1/ Is the Gog, Magog war of Ezekiel the same as the Gog, Magog war of Revelation?

 

No. The war mentioned in Eze. 38-39 is a regional war mounted by a coolition of nations that attack Israel from the North.  The war of Armageddon metioned in Revelation is a war in which all of the nations of the world are aligned against Israel.

 

Even the coalition of Ezekiel is from the north, the south and the east. (Meshech, Tubal, Gomer, Togarmah, Persia, Ethiopia, Libya) AND many people.

 

Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

 

Most of those nations are still located in the near east.  The only exception being the possibility that the cooilition is led by Russia.   But the war of Armageddon is described much differently, as being far more global referencing every nation on earth.  That would include nations not mentioned in Ezek. 38-39

[rollinTHUNDER]

Just to bring some clarity, I believe brother WillowWood was asking whether or not the Gog, Magog war of Ezekiel 38 & 39 are the same as Revelation 20:7-10, not Armageddon.

 

 

Cheers