10 HORNS, 3 HORNS, 1 HORN

[Spock]

Reading Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 we can understand the symbols of beasts and horns. Beasts are simply kingdoms, historically these beasts have all been very large empires that dominate the Middle East. Horns = divisions within those empires

In Revelation 13 we see that there is a large ten-horned beast, that resembles a leopard. The leopard was the 3rd kingdom in Daniel 7, and represented the Greek Empire under Alexander the Great. Rev 13 is therefore stating that this end-times ten-horned beast will resemble Alexander's Empire (the leopard).

Alexander's empire consisted of the following regions: Greece, Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Israel, Egypt, Libya.

The final beast empire will resemble this leopard, and so will most likely have the same ten regions.

Jesus predicts very convincing false Messiahs in the last days. Now if a Messiah is to be convincing, he would have to dominate up to the Euphrates on behalf of Israel, because this is what Jewish prophecy expects of their expected Messiah. This means that Israel could become a superstate within the "leopard" kingdom, covering the regions of Israel/Syria/Iraq. This would explain the 3 horns of Daniel 7 falling before 1 horn. If you follow Middle Eastern politics and current alliances this could be made possible by a Kurdish/Jewish alliance, its possible the antichrist could be a Kurdish Jew, bringing the two discarded countries (Kurdistan and Israel) into a new and powerful alliance.

The little horn that rises and dominates the 3 regions would then be Kurdistan or Israel. Does this view contradict any verses in the bible?

Just curious, Why are you elevating the Kurds?

Lol, good question. I guess I'm just watching international trends and speculating how they could fit into prophecy. The Kurds are Jewish friendly, there are many Kurdish Jews, and Turkey and the USA are currently helping the Kurds. Well known European financial figures are investing into the region, there have been oil discoveries there. The Kurdish section of Iraq is the Western supported utopia amidst the troubled Middle East. The sudden re-appearance of Kurdistan to dominate Israel/Iraq and Syria would fit so well into the little horn/3 horn prophecy of Daniel 7..

But Israel's sudden re-appearance fits the tenses of Rev 17 even better, because the wording is : was and is not and will come (Israel had ceased when those words were written)

Yet Kurdistan would only apply to the words "will be then will cease then will re-appear". So Kurdistan doesn't fit the tenses as well as the re-appearance of Israel.

Its one of those situations where we must just wait and see how it pans out, but it definitely appears that the west is creating a west friendly Kurdistan in the region.

How do you see the Psalm 83 war playing out?

I actually think this will be the next big event to behold. How about you?

It seems to be common among end-times experts to predict a war that establishes or precedes the antichrist's power. I don't see such a war in prophecy. I only see the one great war at the second coming.

All references to an attack on Israel by all its neighbours refer to Armageddon. Whether Psalm 83, Ezekiel 39, Joel 2, Rev 16, Rev 19, Zechariah 14........ its all Armageddon.

Before that we only have wars and rumors of war, no great war until the second coming. I'm anticipating the antichrist will have a small war to show Jews that he is a good false Christ, by conquering up to the Euphrates. But this may just be a token war given that Israel already has allies in the region (Kurds) and Syria and Iraq are militarily weak.

Here is where you and I differ Big Time.

Spock's scenario, free of charge:

I see psalm 83 war, that will allow Israel to finally have some peace around its borders. Damascus in ruin per Isaiah 17.

However, this will bring concern and retribution from it's not adjacent Muslim and some non Muslim neighbors-mainly Russia, turkey, Iran.

These Ezekiel 38-39 countries will plot to come into Israel to also plunder her wealth.

But God miracously intervenes.

The world seeing this is amazed and perplexed.

Enter the antichrist to explain matters away from God.

Peace treaty being signed by many nations including Israel, which allows for the latter to build a temple. Thus, the 70th week of Daniel begins.

The rest you probably know.

Spock out

PS for those who just have to know, I see the rapture of the church sometime before the signing of the 7 year treaty. Not sure how much before it. It will happen suddenly, swiftly, and at an hour you don't expect.

[ARGOSY]

Just to add some thoughts

 

Daniel 2 metallic image

From what I understand of it is that it shows who all was going to rule or control Israel people.

And God deliver them at the end which is the Iron and clay kingdom.

 

I don't at this time see anything showing Muslim alone is going alone against Israel at Armageddon .

That would be another layer in the metallic image.

 

So far I see the Iron and clay being Religion and Civil power, but has the strength of the Iron.

I agree with what you say about religion/civil power.  I saw it as religion/military power but thinking about it I would say that you are more accurate  ie the four metals represent normal governments (civil) , but the clay is when religion comes under that governments authority as per Papal Rome and as per Byzantium/Ottoman Istanbul. Clay is the biblical symbol for the true religion (clay moulded by God for good use), and so miry or brittle clay therefore represents the true religion distorted, because the clay can no longer be moulded (too brittle or too miry). So once again we agree     good stuff!

 

Yes its not just Islamic nations that war against Israel. I believe its nearly the entire world comes against this deceptive antichrist in Israel. Israel has just completed 1260 days of protection, when that protection lifts the world attacks to wipe the Jews off the planet, something Satan keeps trying to do. But even this last plan is unsuccessful because Israel repents and Jesus Himself intervenes on their behalf.

[ARGOSY]

 

 

 

 

 

Reading Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 we can understand the symbols of beasts and horns. Beasts are simply kingdoms, historically these beasts have all been very large empires that dominate the Middle East. Horns = divisions within those empires

In Revelation 13 we see that there is a large ten-horned beast, that resembles a leopard. The leopard was the 3rd kingdom in Daniel 7, and represented the Greek Empire under Alexander the Great. Rev 13 is therefore stating that this end-times ten-horned beast will resemble Alexander's Empire (the leopard).

Alexander's empire consisted of the following regions: Greece, Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Israel, Egypt, Libya.

The final beast empire will resemble this leopard, and so will most likely have the same ten regions.

Jesus predicts very convincing false Messiahs in the last days. Now if a Messiah is to be convincing, he would have to dominate up to the Euphrates on behalf of Israel, because this is what Jewish prophecy expects of their expected Messiah. This means that Israel could become a superstate within the "leopard" kingdom, covering the regions of Israel/Syria/Iraq. This would explain the 3 horns of Daniel 7 falling before 1 horn. If you follow Middle Eastern politics and current alliances this could be made possible by a Kurdish/Jewish alliance, its possible the antichrist could be a Kurdish Jew, bringing the two discarded countries (Kurdistan and Israel) into a new and powerful alliance.

The little horn that rises and dominates the 3 regions would then be Kurdistan or Israel. Does this view contradict any verses in the bible?

Just curious, Why are you elevating the Kurds?

Lol, good question. I guess I'm just watching international trends and speculating how they could fit into prophecy. The Kurds are Jewish friendly, there are many Kurdish Jews, and Turkey and the USA are currently helping the Kurds. Well known European financial figures are investing into the region, there have been oil discoveries there. The Kurdish section of Iraq is the Western supported utopia amidst the troubled Middle East. The sudden re-appearance of Kurdistan to dominate Israel/Iraq and Syria would fit so well into the little horn/3 horn prophecy of Daniel 7..

But Israel's sudden re-appearance fits the tenses of Rev 17 even better, because the wording is : was and is not and will come (Israel had ceased when those words were written)

Yet Kurdistan would only apply to the words "will be then will cease then will re-appear". So Kurdistan doesn't fit the tenses as well as the re-appearance of Israel.

Its one of those situations where we must just wait and see how it pans out, but it definitely appears that the west is creating a west friendly Kurdistan in the region.

How do you see the Psalm 83 war playing out?

I actually think this will be the next big event to behold. How about you?

It seems to be common among end-times experts to predict a war that establishes or precedes the antichrist's power. I don't see such a war in prophecy. I only see the one great war at the second coming.

All references to an attack on Israel by all its neighbours refer to Armageddon. Whether Psalm 83, Ezekiel 39, Joel 2, Rev 16, Rev 19, Zechariah 14........ its all Armageddon.

Before that we only have wars and rumors of war, no great war until the second coming. I'm anticipating the antichrist will have a small war to show Jews that he is a good false Christ, by conquering up to the Euphrates. But this may just be a token war given that Israel already has allies in the region (Kurds) and Syria and Iraq are militarily weak.

Here is where you and I differ Big Time.

Spock's scenario, free of charge:

I see psalm 83 war, that will allow Israel to finally have some peace around its borders. Damascus in ruin per Isaiah 17.

However, this will bring concern and retribution from it's not adjacent Muslim and some non Muslim neighbors-mainly Russia, turkey, Iran.

These Ezekiel 38-39 countries will plot to come into Israel to also plunder her wealth.

But God miracously intervenes.

The world seeing this is amazed and perplexed.

Enter the antichrist to explain matters away from God.

Peace treaty being signed by many nations including Israel, which allows for the latter to build a temple. Thus, the 70th week of Daniel begins.

The rest you probably know.

Spock out

PS for those who just have to know, I see the rapture of the church sometime before the signing of the 7 year treaty. Not sure how much before it. It will happen suddenly, swiftly, and at an hour you don't expect.

 

 

 

You seem to be just repeating the standardized dispensational view. Have you got verses to favor your position over my position?

[Spock]

Basically, I see a few more wars than you do. You are just combining all of them I one. You might be right; I'm just not buying.

[ARGOSY]

Basically, I see a few more wars than you do. You are just combining all of them I one. You might be right; I'm just not buying.

 

Basically, I see a few more wars than you do. You are just combining all of them I one. You might be right; I'm just not buying.

 

No problem.  I just don't see repeated cycles of a great war associated with one of these events:

A massive earthquake, national repentance, a great feast for the birds, a new cleansed Israel.

 

 To me its unrealistic that Israel will repent twice in two wars, will have two earthquakes in two wars, two great feasts for birds in two wars, two periods of purity after two wars.

 

Oh well....

[Spock]

Basically, I see a few more wars than you do. You are just combining all of them I one. You might be right; I'm just not buying.

 

Basically, I see a few more wars than you do. You are just combining all of them I one. You might be right; I'm just not buying.

 

No problem.  I just don't see repeated cycles of a great war associated with one of these events:

A massive earthquake, national repentance, a great feast for the birds, a new cleansed Israel.

 

 To me its unrealistic that Israel will repent twice in two wars, will have two earthquakes in two wars, two great feasts for birds in two wars, two periods of purity after two wars.

 

Oh well....

I don't see Israel repenting in either war.

Psalm 83 war- she kicks some Muslim booty, especially Damascus.

Ezekiel war- God kicks some Russian and Muslim booty for them.

I believe this allows for the ac to enter the scene.

[Spock]

Reading Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 we can understand the symbols of beasts and horns. Beasts are simply kingdoms, historically these beasts have all been very large empires that dominate the Middle East. Horns = divisions within those empires

In Revelation 13 we see that there is a large ten-horned beast, that resembles a leopard. The leopard was the 3rd kingdom in Daniel 7, and represented the Greek Empire under Alexander the Great. Rev 13 is therefore stating that this end-times ten-horned beast will resemble Alexander's Empire (the leopard).

Alexander's empire consisted of the following regions: Greece, Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Israel, Egypt, Libya.

The final beast empire will resemble this leopard, and so will most likely have the same ten regions.

Jesus predicts very convincing false Messiahs in the last days. Now if a Messiah is to be convincing, he would have to dominate up to the Euphrates on behalf of Israel, because this is what Jewish prophecy expects of their expected Messiah. This means that Israel could become a superstate within the "leopard" kingdom, covering the regions of Israel/Syria/Iraq. This would explain the 3 horns of Daniel 7 falling before 1 horn. If you follow Middle Eastern politics and current alliances this could be made possible by a Kurdish/Jewish alliance, its possible the antichrist could be a Kurdish Jew, bringing the two discarded countries (Kurdistan and Israel) into a new and powerful alliance.

The little horn that rises and dominates the 3 regions would then be Kurdistan or Israel. Does this view contradict any verses in the bible?

Just curious, Why are you elevating the Kurds?

Lol, good question. I guess I'm just watching international trends and speculating how they could fit into prophecy. The Kurds are Jewish friendly, there are many Kurdish Jews, and Turkey and the USA are currently helping the Kurds. Well known European financial figures are investing into the region, there have been oil discoveries there. The Kurdish section of Iraq is the Western supported utopia amidst the troubled Middle East. The sudden re-appearance of Kurdistan to dominate Israel/Iraq and Syria would fit so well into the little horn/3 horn prophecy of Daniel 7..

But Israel's sudden re-appearance fits the tenses of Rev 17 even better, because the wording is : was and is not and will come (Israel had ceased when those words were written)

Yet Kurdistan would only apply to the words "will be then will cease then will re-appear". So Kurdistan doesn't fit the tenses as well as the re-appearance of Israel.

Its one of those situations where we must just wait and see how it pans out, but it definitely appears that the west is creating a west friendly Kurdistan in the region.

How do you see the Psalm 83 war playing out?

I actually think this will be the next big event to behold. How about you?

It seems to be common among end-times experts to predict a war that establishes or precedes the antichrist's power. I don't see such a war in prophecy. I only see the one great war at the second coming.

All references to an attack on Israel by all its neighbours refer to Armageddon. Whether Psalm 83, Ezekiel 39, Joel 2, Rev 16, Rev 19, Zechariah 14........ its all Armageddon.

Before that we only have wars and rumors of war, no great war until the second coming. I'm anticipating the antichrist will have a small war to show Jews that he is a good false Christ, by conquering up to the Euphrates. But this may just be a token war given that Israel already has allies in the region (Kurds) and Syria and Iraq are militarily weak.

Here is where you and I differ Big Time.

Spock's scenario, free of charge:

I see psalm 83 war, that will allow Israel to finally have some peace around its borders. Damascus in ruin per Isaiah 17.

However, this will bring concern and retribution from it's not adjacent Muslim and some non Muslim neighbors-mainly Russia, turkey, Iran.

These Ezekiel 38-39 countries will plot to come into Israel to also plunder her wealth.

But God miracously intervenes.

The world seeing this is amazed and perplexed.

Enter the antichrist to explain matters away from God.

Peace treaty being signed by many nations including Israel, which allows for the latter to build a temple. Thus, the 70th week of Daniel begins.

The rest you probably know.

Spock out

PS for those who just have to know, I see the rapture of the church sometime before the signing of the 7 year treaty. Not sure how much before it. It will happen suddenly, swiftly, and at an hour you don't expect.

 

 

You seem to be just repeating the standardized dispensational view. Have you got verses to favor your position over my position?

Sorry, I omitted this-

Psalm 83 war- see psalm 83

Ezekiel 38/39 war- see Ezekiel 38/39

[ARGOSY]

 

 

Basically, I see a few more wars than you do. You are just combining all of them I one. You might be right; I'm just not buying.

 

Basically, I see a few more wars than you do. You are just combining all of them I one. You might be right; I'm just not buying.

 

No problem.  I just don't see repeated cycles of a great war associated with one of these events:

A massive earthquake, national repentance, a great feast for the birds, a new cleansed Israel.

 

 To me its unrealistic that Israel will repent twice in two wars, will have two earthquakes in two wars, two great feasts for birds in two wars, two periods of purity after two wars.

 

Oh well....

I don't see Israel repenting in either war.

Psalm 83 war- she kicks some Muslim booty, especially Damascus.

Ezekiel war- God kicks some Russian and Muslim booty for them.

I believe this allows for the ac to enter the scene.

 

As I pointed out on the Ezekiel thread, we have the following similarities between the battle of Ezekiel 38/39 and the battle of Armageddon/day of the Lord:

 

1) Both are described as a great feast for birds (Ezekiel 39/Rev 19)

2) Both involve a great earthquake (Ezekiel 38/Rev 16)

3) Both involve the nations of earth in fear (Ezekiel 38/Isaiah 2/Rev 6)

4) Both occur at the end of a time of safety for Israel  (Ezekiel 38/39 , Rev 12)

5) Both involve an attack from the northern army (Joel 2, Ezekiel 38:15)

6) Both occur at the end of a period of unfaithfulness of Israel  (Ezekiel 39:26  Joel 2:12,13)

 

You may still deny they are the same war, but you would then be denying the obvious in favor of what you have been taught.

And Israel does repent in Ezekiel:

Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will now restore the fortunes of Jacob[d] and will have compassion on all the people of Israel, and I will be zealous for my holy name. 26 They will forget their shame and all the unfaithfulness they showed toward me when they lived in safety in their land with no one to make them afraid.

 

Depending on your view of Joel 2, and Revelation 16/19 it appears you believe in two attacks from the northern army, two cleansings of Israel, two earthquakes, two great feasts. 

 

Beg to differ

 

Psalm 83 is less clear, there the emphasis is the various nations, but the nations do have a good match with the allies of the Northern army.  But I do agree that Psalm 83 has more scope for being another war.

[ARGOSY]

 

Sorry, I omitted this-

Psalm 83 war- see psalm 83

Ezekiel 38/39 war- see Ezekiel 38/39

 

 

good one

[Spock]

Sorry, I omitted this-

Psalm 83 war- see psalm 83

Ezekiel 38/39 war- see Ezekiel 38/39

 

good one

Lol

I thought you would like that.