666 - the problem with over-enthusiasm

[OakWood]

I'm putting this in the prophecy forum because I think it is the right place for it, although I'm not really going to discuss prophecy, only the tendency for people to go overboard when it comes to the analysis of Rev 13:18.

 

Firstly, let me start by reminding people that God does not grant salvation because of one's ability to solve puzzles. 666 is not meant to be a test of one's mental dexterity, otherwise you'd end up with lots of souls who become condemned due to their inability to decipher some sort of hidden code, and lots of undeserving people being granted salvation just because they were smart enough to play around with names and numerology, solve the conundrum and avoid taking the mark.

 

The concept of 666 is so engrained into Western Christian civilisation that it has become part of folklore. Even non-believers have heard of it. It has become a common theme of horror movies, dramas and novels. Even the rock band Iron Maiden released a hit track and album based around it. For many years now people have tried to solve the puzzle, often by playing around with people's names and substituting numbers for the letters in their names, and other such mumbo-jumbo. Depending what language you use and what method you use, almost anybody's name can come out as 666. This has led to many speculations as to who the forthcoming anti-Christ may be, whether it be Barack Obama, George W. Bush, Elvis Presley or the Queen of England.

 

I blame this phenomena on the wording of Rev: 13-18 itself:

 

This calls for wisdom, if anybody has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is a man's number, the number is 666.

 

or the King James Version:

 

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

Now as a boy, I could never understand how anybody would fall for this. 666 is so famous that anybody who sees it would run a mile, so naturally I believed what many other people believe, that it would be a trick, a hidden number that wouldn't be obvious and that would require gematria or some other form of code-breaking to solve it. Hence the fashion today for people to try and solve this problem. They are trying to work it out ahead of time and don't want to fall for it. This of course, is nonsense and is an insult to God. Paradise will end up full of problem-solvers, mathematicians, amateur detectives and various other boffins regardless of their faith in Jesus. Anybody who is a loyal Christian, but rather stupid will be thrown into the fire.

 

It is quite feasible for people to be gullible enough to take the mark even if it is as plain as day. Even if the Beast appears and uses 666 as his own personal emblem, has it tattooed on his forehead and calls his political party the '666 party' it won't make any difference, those who's names are not written into the book of life will still be deceived by him, even if they are familiar with the 666 legend.

Why?

Because people can also be fooled by the blatantly obvious, that's why.

 

Already we have false church leaders telling people that 666 is nothing to worry about, that the Bible has been misinterpreted and that 666 is actually a good number, but has been mistakenly interpreted to be the number of evil. Google 'Jose Luis deJesus Miranda' if you don't believe me.

We also have people who think that Christianity is fake, a religion of the old superstitious days, but now with New-Age thinking we are about to enter a new era of spirituality. It wouldn't surprise me if some people didn't even deliberately use 666 as a logo to show that they are above superstition, and that they refuse to fall for Christian nonsense!

 

Of course, I'm not saying that this will be the case, all I am trying to say is that when the mystery of 666 is finally revealed, it will be a lot more obvious than a lot of these amateur detectives think and the wise will identify it, because they have an understanding of God. Those who are ungodly, lustful, greedy and sadistic, even if it is obvious to them too, they won't understand the consequences of it, or they will laugh at it.

 

Solving the riddle of 666 is not that important.

No Christian should be fooled by a false Messiah that sets up camp in Jerusalem, preaches blasphemous things, performs flashy miracles and then forces everybody to take some sort of mark. 666 is just a number, given to us for our benefit as a means of us being certain that a prophecy is being fulfilled. It will not be necessary to spot it. It will be just another clue amongst many.

It's fun to try and work it out ahead of time, but when people start messing around with names. letters and numbers it just gets stupid, even turning to paranoia at times.

I don't believe that we're ready to solve it yet. Closer to the time we will gain a better understanding of it.

It will become one of those "aaah, yes, so that's what it is" moments.

[other one]

Revelation tells us that the exception to those who worship the beast and take his name are those whose name is written in the book of life......   Jesus also told us that no one could snatch us out of the hand of the Father....

 

no one will be fooled or tricked into taking the mark or worshiping the beast or it's image.   It is my personal belief that the Holy Spirit will not let that happen to anyone who's name is in that book unless they make a conscious decision to do so.

 

 

I certainly do agree that we make too much out of the mark.....       dwelling on it can mess with your head and keep you from enjoying what time we have left until it arrives...        Don't worry.......   Be happy.....

[other one]

in verse rev 13:17 it says:  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

the hebrew alphabet is also the numeric system so in english it would go A is one, B is two and so on.  perhaps its his initials.  who knows?  But once you see you cant buy sell or sell without the mark you will know for sure.  I mean how can you know a number of his name without knowing his name.  when it happens you will not be able to miss it. 

 

I think it is important to teach about the mark of the beast though because in rev. 14 it says this:

 

⁹ And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

¹⁰ The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

¹¹ And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

¹² Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

I think its understandable to want to know because it is a mystery.  People tend to be attracted to mysteries.  but in all reality we are to be looking for the return of Jesus, not the enemy.

that same part of Revelation tells us that if we don't worship the first beast we will be killed......   so the mark really isn't a big deal....    No Christian is going to worship the beasts so I really don't see the urgency of knowing what the 666 is.

[OakWood]

 

 

in verse rev 13:17 it says:  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

the hebrew alphabet is also the numeric system so in english it would go A is one, B is two and so on.  perhaps its his initials.  who knows?  But once you see you cant buy sell or sell without the mark you will know for sure.  I mean how can you know a number of his name without knowing his name.  when it happens you will not be able to miss it. 

 

I think it is important to teach about the mark of the beast though because in rev. 14 it says this:

 

⁹ And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

¹⁰ The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

¹¹ And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

¹² Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

I think its understandable to want to know because it is a mystery.  People tend to be attracted to mysteries.  but in all reality we are to be looking for the return of Jesus, not the enemy.

that same part of Revelation tells us that if we don't worship the first beast we will be killed......   so the mark really isn't a big deal....    No Christian is going to worship the beasts so I really don't see the urgency of knowing what the 666 is.

 

If it wasnt a big deal God would not have seen fit to put it in the bible?(all scripture is God breathed).  God is very specific with His words.  If God tells us something in His word we should not shrug it off due to our opinions. No offence intended....but His words are the words of life and not only in a spiritual sense but in a shepherd protecting his sheep from the wolves way also.

 

 

I agree, and there may be an importance to it. It may be very significant. What I am trying to say though is that it is not a puzzle to be deciphered. Your salvation is not dependent upon cracking some code that others may not be able to. It's a sign like many other Biblical signs. It may be a warning to stay away. It could even be an early warning sign, so that Christians can prepare, but I doubt if it is a complex riddle. God is not the author of confusion.

[Hindsfeet]

IMHO, I think the real issue of deception is with the act of Worship. What is worship? Do people today understand what Worship really means? Is it only bowing down, kneeling to pray, lifting hands, or singing songs in a church/cathedral/mosque/religious establishment?

We've already seen a young child 'praying' to obama. Do the masses actually see this as 'worship'? It is open Idolatry, yet, I can see people poo pooing, excusing and minimizing it. False grace.

I see believers and nonbelievers alike more excited and devoted to sports teams, a pop star, tv shows, politicians,,,, Tech Gadgets,,,a Cause,,, etc.

What is worship and how and what are we being deceived into worshipping?

[kingdomwitness]

The bible did not say "Here is wisdom, let him that is knowledgeable avoid counting the number of the beast" but it says those who have knowledge should count the number. I believe that this is restricted to only those with the knowledge in aspects as this and their duty is to warn those who would listen to them. So counting the number, I believe is restricted to those with the knowledge.

[OakWood]

The bible did not say "Here is wisdom, let him that is knowledgeable avoid counting the number of the beast" but it says those who have knowledge should count the number. I believe that this is restricted to only those with the knowledge in aspects as this and their duty is to warn those who would listen to them. So counting the number, I believe is restricted to those with the knowledge.

 

You may be right, but I don't believe that messing about with people's names and letters and so on will provide any answers. I think we'll have to wait and see closer to the time.

[kingdomwitness]

Not only people's names. Even kingdoms add up to 666. I once checked a bible software in school and I saw a commentary by Adam Clarke or so concerning the number of the beast in which he said the name "The Latin Kingdom" in Greek adds up to 666 and he worked it out but I don't have much knowledge of Greek language, I would have worked it out to prove it. The Latin Kingdom could be the Roman Empire since Latin is its main language. Not only people's names but also empires and kingdoms.

[Donibm]

Take what ALL the verses say ... not just one.

 

who is the drunk woman on a beast  (false Church AND State) ... which is the iron AND clay seen in Daniel?

 

who is made drunk with the blood of saints (roman coliseum, inquisitions, Jesuit oath of induction, etc)?

 

the woman/beast rest on 7 mountains.  How does this fit in with the above two things (ancient roman coins will help you ... or even Wikipedia)

 

666:

you know what i is?  1. 

you know what ii is?  2. 

you know what v is? 5.

you know what x is? 10.

 

But did you know that the Latin numeric system is ALSO the alphabet?

 

VICARIUS FILII DEI

 

... add that up in the Latin numerical system.  When you discover that it is 666, well, realize that it is the Popes Mantle.

 

 

Now ask yourself, why do ALL of the hints point to the Vatican?

 

You will have to decide if it's all just a weird coincidence ... or I'm a mentally retarded brilliant kinda guy.

 

Either way, you will have to analyze it for yourself.  I already have ... 10 times over.

[OakWood]

Take what ALL the verses say ... not just one.

 

who is the drunk woman on a beast  (false Church AND State) ... which is the iron AND clay seen in Daniel?

 

who is made drunk with the blood of saints (roman coliseum, inquisitions, Jesuit oath of induction, etc)?

 

the woman/beast rest on 7 mountains.  How does this fit in with the above two things (ancient roman coins will help you ... or even Wikipedia)

 

666:

you know what i is?  1. 

you know what ii is?  2. 

you know what v is? 5.

you know what x is? 10.

 

But did you know that the Latin numeric system is ALSO the alphabet?

 

VICARIUS FILII DEI

 

... add that up in the Latin numerical system.  When you discover that it is 666, well, realize that it is the Popes Mantle.

 

 

Now ask yourself, why do ALL of the hints point to the Vatican?

 

You will have to decide if it's all just a weird coincidence ... or I'm a mentally retarded brilliant kinda guy.

 

Either way, you will have to analyze it for yourself.  I already have ... 10 times over.

 

Yes, but the New Testament was written in Greek, not Latin.