The rapture theory: True or false?

[ARGOSY]

Hi guys, what I read in the link am about to show you will shock you concerning the author's view of the rapture. http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/rapture-theory-false.html.

Pls check the link and let me know what you all think.

Just like everyone else he's right on some things and wrong on some things. He does make a reasonable argument against the false teaching of a pre-trib rapture though.

[kingdomwitness]

So what is the point now my friends

[Guest]

So what is the point now my friends

I think that the point is that one needs to study the Scriptures for themselves and decide what the Holy Spirit is telling them. But, one cannot be confident of anything that a person teaches is true if they are blatantly wrong in one aspect. Take for instance that I say that a person who is wearing two left shoes has two left feet. Do you believe it? Of course not. The person may have two left shoes on, but he most probably doesn't have two left feet. Now I say that the person has two left hands, while his hands are in his pockets. Are you going to believe that? You can't see his hands; but you do know that I didn't know what I was talking about when I made the incorrect statement that the person had two left feet. When it comes to Biblical teaching, how much more important is it that the teacher be correct in all that they teach in order for you to place your faith and knowledge in what they teach?

[Guest DRS81]

Ok guys, so what do y'all think of the guy who wrote the website? A false prophet?

 

A side note: a disciple, an apostle and a prophet have different meanings. Blessings.

[kingdomwitness]

Ok guys

[ARGOSY]

So what is the point now my friends

I think that the point is that one needs to study the Scriptures for themselves and decide what the Holy Spirit is telling them. But, one cannot be confident of anything that a person teaches is true if they are blatantly wrong in one aspect. Take for instance that I say that a person who is wearing two left shoes has two left feet. Do you believe it? Of course not. The person may have two left shoes on, but he most probably doesn't have two left feet. Now I say that the person has two left hands, while his hands are in his pockets. Are you going to believe that? You can't see his hands; but you do know that I didn't know what I was talking about when I made the incorrect statement that the person had two left feet. When it comes to Biblical teaching, how much more important is it that the teacher be correct in all that they teach in order for you to place your faith and knowledge in what they teach?

Fair enough, so let's write off that link as inaccurate. I'm going to use a similar argument though, starting with that "last day" argument. Using the bible as my source, it appears the ungodly will be judged on the day when we are resurrected, what say ye pre-tribbers:

John 6:40 ...'And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.'

John 11:24 ...'Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.'

John 12:48 ...'He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.'

My general argument against the pre-trib rapture is that in every single verse, in every single context where a resurrection or rapture occurs, the more obvious reading favors a post-trib rapture, and the less obvious meaning favors a pre-trib rapture. sure the bible is often open to interpretation but when every single case favors a post-trib or late-trib rapture you should think twice about the pre-trib rapture view.

[Montana Marv]

"In/At the resurrection of the last day" for their Resurrection (this is OT context for Israel) When will they be Resurrected?  so is it Post Trib or Post Mill.

 

Scripture gives no hint on when the Rapture will occur.  It is an unknown time, think about it "unknown".  Post trib, near Post trib is a known time.

 

Pre 70th week is an unknown time.  Mid week is a known time, Post trib is a known time, the 7th Trumpet is a known time (shortly after the 6th)

 

Rev 9:20 - The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping (or continued to) demons, idols .......

 

Are you part of these "the rest of mankind" who were not kill by these plagues and did not repent but continued to worship demons and idols.....

I hope not.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[ARGOSY]

"In/At the resurrection of the last day" for their Resurrection (this is OT context for Israel) When will they be Resurrected?  so is it Post Trib or Post Mill.

 

Scripture gives no hint on when the Rapture will occur.  It is an unknown time, think about it "unknown".  Post trib, near Post trib is a known time.

 

Pre 70th week is an unknown time.  Mid week is a known time, Post trib is a known time, the 7th Trumpet is a known time (shortly after the 6th)

 

Rev 9:20 - The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping (or continued to) demons, idols .......

 

Are you part of these "the rest of mankind" who were not kill by these plagues and did not repent but continued to worship demons and idols.....

I hope not.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

I don't see it as an unknown time. Its unknown only for unbelievers, the rest can know the approximate month but not the day or the hour.

Quite often that day is described as a thief for unbelievers, but not a thief for believers: 1 Thess 5:

Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

[kingdomwitness]

"In/At the resurrection of the last day" for their Resurrection (this is OT context for Israel) When will they be Resurrected? so is it Post Trib or Post Mill.

Scripture gives no hint on when the Rapture will occur. It is an unknown time, think about it "unknown". Post trib, near Post trib is a known time.

Pre 70th week is an unknown time. Mid week is a known time, Post trib is a known time, the 7th Trumpet is a known time (shortly after the 6th)

Rev 9:20 - The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping (or continued to) demons, idols .......

Are you part of these "the rest of mankind" who were not kill by these plagues and did not repent but continued to worship demons and idols.....

I hope not.

In Christ

Montana Marv

I don't see it as an unknown time. Its unknown only for unbelievers, the rest can know the approximate month but not the day or the hour.

Quite often that day is described as a thief for unbelievers, but not a thief for believers: 1 Thess 5:

Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

So are you trying to say that the month will be know?

[Spock]

So what is the point now my friends

I think that the point is that one needs to study the Scriptures for themselves and decide what the Holy Spirit is telling them. But, one cannot be confident of anything that a person teaches is true if they are blatantly wrong in one aspect. Take for instance that I say that a person who is wearing two left shoes has two left feet. Do you believe it? Of course not. The person may have two left shoes on, but he most probably doesn't have two left feet. Now I say that the person has two left hands, while his hands are in his pockets. Are you going to believe that? You can't see his hands; but you do know that I didn't know what I was talking about when I made the incorrect statement that the person had two left feet. When it comes to Biblical teaching, how much more important is it that the teacher be correct in all that they teach in order for you to place your faith and knowledge in what they teach?

Fair enough, so let's write off that link as inaccurate. I'm going to use a similar argument though, starting with that "last day" argument. Using the bible as my source, it appears the ungodly will be judged on the day when we are resurrected, what say ye pre-tribbers:John 6:40 ...'And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.'John 11:24 ...'Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.'John 12:48 ...'He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.'My general argument against the pre-trib rapture is that in every single verse, in every single context where a resurrection or rapture occurs, the more obvious reading favors a post-trib rapture, and the less obvious meaning favors a pre-trib rapture. sure the bible is often open to interpretation but when every single case favors a post-trib or late-trib rapture you should think twice about the pre-trib rapture view.

Argosy,

I don't know if this will help you, but I do not believe these verses refer to one particular day. "Last day"may be referring to a time period-like toward the end of an age or period or dispensation. Or it could be talking about a specific people group, like the Jews. I believe the OT saints will be resurrected at the end of the tribulation (Daniel 12:1-2). Maybe.....maybe not.

I leave you with this to chew on if you want to go deeper:

http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers-evangelical-dictionary/last-days-latter-days-last-times.html

Thanks for stretching me here.

PS your john 12:48 last day reference to me is clearly different than the last day reference in John 6 and john 11. One is before the millennial reign of Christ (john 6 and 11) and one is after the 1000 year reign at the Great White throne judgment (john 12).

So, here last day meant last in two different instances.