Proof of GOD, (without attacking Old Earth or evolution)

[LookingForAnswers]

Go ahead and define them LOL, Here Ya go

 

Compelling Evidence......?

 

Proof.......?

 

And who didn't have "Proof"??   Go on now, go ahead and say Peter..

 

 

Peter didn't have proof, he had evidence.   When he took his eyes off the evidence he sunk.  that is because like you, he put his faith in this own understanding instead of relying on the Lord.  Anytime we do that we will eventually fail.  That is why we must move past what we know on our own and trust God to fill in the blanks.  This is the faith part.  This is the part that you are missing, you want to believe you  have it all figured out in your mind because your pride tells you that you can, despite the fact God tells you not to rely on yourself. 

 

I gave you the simplest definition I could, if you cannot grasp this simple explanation I am not sure there is any hope for you.

 

Here it is again in case you missed it.  Maybe if i make some of the words bigger and put pretty colors in it that will help you.

 

To have proof you need evidence. If you have enough evidence then you have proof.

[gray wolf]

Evidence is evidence.  How much is required for proof?  It depends on the person considering the evidence.  For some, it may be proof of what they have in mind.  Another may look at the same evidence and come up with another answer.  Evolutionists and Creationists both have the same evidence, as Ken Ham rightly points out.  It depends on the model under consideration.

[gray wolf]

Sure there is.  Sometimes we cannot see the evidence or proof directly but we see its effect elsewhere and can infer the evidence.

[Enoch2021]

 

 

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Bravo to the different Color Font and Size    However, that does not Preclude the need for Coherency 

 

Peter didn't have proof, he had evidence.

 

Uh Oh.  You've got a BIG PROBLEM, right here....

 

(Matthew 14:33) "Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God."

 

What this is saying is the MOMENT when ALL the Apostles saw Jesus Stand/Walk on Water they knew  :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

So are you saying when they worshiped him SAYING....."of a TRUTH thou are the Son of GOD" that the "Walking/Standing on Water" was just "evidence" not "Proof"?? 

 

So you can equivocate proof and evidence till the Cows come home...it doesn't change anything.

 

See the Checkmate?

 

 

This is the faith part.

 

So you're saying something comes before Faith?

 

But this is your position....."Faith is a belief that is not based on proof, thus the "unseen".

 

 

To have proof you need evidence. If you have enough evidence then you have proof.

 

So this is it, eh?

 

Can you be a bit more specific on "ENOUGH" evidence to make it a Proof?  Is it Quantity?  Quality? Can it be 1 Strong Evidence?

[LookingForAnswers]

Uh Oh.  You've got a BIG PROBLEM, right here....

 

(Matthew 14:33) "Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God."

 

What this is saying is the MOMENT when ALL the Apostles saw Jesus Stand/Walk on Water they knew  :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

So are you saying when they worshiped him SAYING....."of a TRUTH thou are the Son of GOD" that the "Walking/Standing on Water" was just "evidence" not "Proof"?? 

 

So you can equivocate proof and evidence till the Cows come home...it doesn't change anything.

 

See the Checkmate?

 

 

Yes, they said that Jesus was the Son of God without proof, just like almost everyone on this forum, except for you it seems.  I have no proof that Jesus is the Son of God, or God or that He died on the cross, was buried for 3 days and rose again. I have no proof of any of that yet I worship as my Lord and Savior.   I truly pity you in that you cannot say this for yourself.  I do hope your own understanding does not betray you one day and you walk away like so many others that have relied on themselves instead of relying on God.

 

 

So, if this is the checkmate,and if the disciples had PROOF at this time, why did Judas later betray him?  What sort of proof could it be that would allow Judas to be so easily taken away?

[Tolken]

LookingForAnswers - To have proof you need evidence. If you have enough evidence then you have proof.

 

Here is the best definition defining evidence and proof – “Proof is the final verdict that removes all doubts whereas evidence only leads one in the direction of a fact or statement.”

As for Peter:

 

JerryR34 captures it right – “Peter seeing Jesus standing on the water was not proof he, Peter, could walk on water - it was proof Jesus could.  It still required faith to step out of the boat.”

 

Further, the passage offers us now absolutely no proof, then even after this incident Peter denies Jesus.

[Enoch2021]

 

 

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1. He is actually seeing jesus 2. He is seeing jesus walking on the water.

 

Neither of these need faith, as evidence has been presented.

 

 

Well Peter hasn't done anything yet, he's still in the ship.

 

 

Neither of these need faith, as evidence has been presented.

 

So you're saying FAITH to be FAITH has to be Blind?  The Moment Peter Steps out of that Boat it is FAITH...because when he sank, what did Jesus say?...

 

(Matthew 14:31) "And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him,  O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?"

 

But has evidence really been presented. No, as Peter is still unsure it is actually Jesus he is seeing, hence he said "IF it's you". Peter/disciples are still under the impression he/they are seeing a ghost. You would think they would have recognised what Jesus looks like after spending so much time with him, they do not even recognise his voice. They are totally oblivious. 

 

Jesus saying "come" is still not evidence that it is really Jesus, Peter is seeing, or that Peter can walk on the water, the same as Jesus. Peter's evidence is when he actually starts to walk, but not evidence it is actually jesus, peter is seeing.

 

 

You're mistaken sir.....

 

(Matthew 14:26-28) "And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.  {27} But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying,  Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.  {28} And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water."

 

 

They were fisherman they knew how destructive the wind was. Hence, a greater proof for Peter was that the wind was greater than Jesus due to it's destructive nature.

 

Irrelevant to the point

 

 

Anyone can walk on water in books. In reality of course not.

 

Except Jesus and Peter(temporarily due to lack of Faith)

 

 

Invisible things are not clearly seen.

 

According to GOD they are and HE IS....

 

(Romans 1:20) "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

 

And most importantly....those clearly "seeing" the invisible things will be held accountable for them and without excuse.

 

 

Hebrews 11 "The evidence of things not seen".

 

You forgot half the Verse....

 

(Hebrews 11:1) "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

 

 

Their is no such thing as unseen evidence. It's a oxymoron.

 

Can you see Air?  What are you breathing?  Is there Water in the Deepest Abyss on the Ocean?  Can you see it?

 

Your walking along a beach and you see a Sand Dune and a Sand Castle and nobody around for miles.  Did Nature or Intelligence create the Sand Dune?

 

 

"Faith should be informed and based on a reasonable agreement with evidence."

 

We finally agree.....Faith is the Substance.

 

Without any Substance, it's Blind Faith.....that's the Oxymoron

[LookingForAnswers]

 

LookingForAnswers - To have proof you need evidence. If you have enough evidence then you have proof.

 

Here is the best definition defining evidence and proof – “Proof is the final verdict that removes all doubts whereas evidence only leads one in the direction of a fact or statement.”

As for Peter:

 

JerryR34 captures it right – “Peter seeing Jesus standing on the water was not proof he, Peter, could walk on water - it was proof Jesus could.  It still required faith to step out of the boat.”

 

Further, the passage offers us now absolutely no proof, then even after this incident Peter denies Jesus.

 

 

The desire for "proof" when it comes to God and faith is an example of relying on one's own understand instead of trusting in God.  Some people cannot let go of themselves and allow God to be in control, they have to work it all out for themselves in their heads.  These are the people that you see on fire for the Lord one day and gone the next. 

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

 

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Yes, they said that Jesus was the Son of God without proof,

 

You can't be serious.  Alot of people Walk on Water in your neck of the Woods?  

 

Look up Obtuse.

 

I have no proof that Jesus is the Son of God, or God or that He died on the cross, was buried for 3 days and rose again. I have no proof of any of that yet I worship as my Lord and Savior.

 

HIS WORD tells You and the Veracity of his WORD comes from....

 

(Romans 1:20) "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

 

I truly pity you

 

For Trusting GOD @ HIS WORD.  I don't need any pity, but thanks

 

 

I do hope your own understanding does not betray you one day and you walk away like so many others that have relied on themselves instead of relying on God.

 

It's the Opposite, I will never walk away because of the FAITH.....SUBSTANCE

 

 

why did Judas later betray him?

 

30 pieces of Silver.  And he was Pre-Ordained to. 

 

But that's The "Deeper Things"...you need to resolve the milk before we get to the meat.

[Tolken]

LookingForAanswers - Some people cannot let go of themselves and allow God to be in control, they have to work it all out for themselves in their heads.

 

So true, and as Pascal noted “Reason's last step is the recognition that there are an infinite number of things which are beyond it.”  Of course it is easy, many do it, just focus on half the verse instead of the entire sentence...why would one hope for something that they already have? It is not an oxymoron but in context it is a paradox,