Devoted more to the Scriptures than to the God of the Scriptures?

[Guest Butero]

 

It is not an either or choice of "living off the knowledge of good and evil rather than off of life."  The Bible states that God's people are destroyed because of a lack of knowledge.  We need to know what God says in his Word.  Jesus was asked what the great commandment was, and he narrowed it down to 2, because if you follow them, you will be following the entire law.  You won't sin against God or your neighbor.  He wasn't doing away with the other laws.  We are saved because we believe in Jesus, but we cannot continue to live in sin and remain saved.  There are lists in the Bible of specific sins that will guarantee we will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.  It is good to know what those things are. 

There are two extreme sides of the fleshly nature, like two deep ditches on either side of the road of real spritual life. Those ditches are extreme license and extreme legalism. Hedonists live with extreme license (no rules), and radical muslims (religionists) in extreme legalism, for example. License is an aberration of the truth of freedom in God, and legalism is an aberration of obedience to God. Hedonists are irreligious, and legalists worship rules, not the true Person of God. Both are false extremes, and each one hates and despises the other.

The truth is that he whom the Son sets free is truly free, and he who abides in the true love and grace of God breaks no true law of God as he so walks. Being legalistic does not make one spiritual, and neither does being hedonistic make one free, but both are bondage to the spirit of this world, and slaves to the fleshly nature. Christians who lean hard in one direction or the other tend to despise greatly the one who leans in the opposite direction, but both are carnal and not truly walking by the Holy Spirit alone and His grace alone. 

The scriptures are neither legalistic or hedonistic, but represent the way, truth, and life only. People with a soul bent in either extreme as described will then attempt to bend the scripture to their own understandings and preference, and wrongly do so in every case. Here again, the problem is never the scripture, but the bias with which one comes to it and reads into it according to fleshly and carnal mindsets

 

It is interesting that you should mention radical Muslims, because if I was a Muslim, there is little doubt I would be one of the radicals.  If I believe in something, I really believe in it as written.  It just happens my faith is in the God of the Bible, and I really believe what the Bible teaches is true, so I believe in following it.  We aren't saved by simply following rules, because we still wouldn't measure up, but neither are we saved by believing and having no change in our life.  Faith without works is dead, according to James.  True faith brings a change in lifestyle.  We know what is right in the sight of God by his Word. 

[Guest Butero]

Blessings Everyone...

     Thanks neb,the OP is an interesting take this Micha Barnett(was that her name)has on the Jews rejecting Christ.....bottom line.I disagree with her interpretation that the Jews living under the law were more focused on reading the Sciptures than seeking God.......I do not think that reading the Scriptures could ever lead anyone away from God but having a hardened heart can & not "receiving" Gods Word through the study of Scripture...it was not that the Pharisees,religious experts & teachers of the law had a barrier between them & God because of the Scriptures but because they were doing everything of their own effort trying to fulfill the law....there they were ,face to face with the very One they had been waiting for & had their hopes on & they could not see Who He was.....blind eyes & deaf ears by the god of this world

      This is a very good example of trying to reconcile oneself to God.....without Jesus,no one can come to the Father....the Scriptures & the law did not cause the hardening of their hearts.....the enemy did,that is why Jesus called them a brood of vipers,sons of satan

                                                                                                                                   With love-in Christ,Kwik

Very well said.  I pretty much agree with everything you said. 

[enoob57]

Blessings Everyone...

     Thanks neb,the OP is an interesting take this Micha Barnett(was that her name)has on the Jews rejecting Christ.....bottom line.I disagree with her interpretation that the Jews living under the law were more focused on reading the Sciptures than seeking God.......I do not think that reading the Scriptures could ever lead anyone away from God but having a hardened heart can & not "receiving" Gods Word through the study of Scripture...it was not that the Pharisees,religious experts & teachers of the law had a barrier between them & God because of the Scriptures but because they were doing everything of their own effort trying to fulfill the law....there they were ,face to face with the very One they had been waiting for & had their hopes on & they could not see Who He was.....blind eyes & deaf ears by the god of this world

      This is a very good example of trying to reconcile oneself to God.....without Jesus,no one can come to the Father....the Scriptures & the law did not cause the hardening of their hearts.....the enemy did,that is why Jesus called them a brood of vipers,sons of satan

                                                                                                                                   With love-in Christ,Kwik

Perfect!

[ajchurney]

 

 

It is not an either or choice of "living off the knowledge of good and evil rather than off of life."  The Bible states that God's people are destroyed because of a lack of knowledge.  We need to know what God says in his Word.  Jesus was asked what the great commandment was, and he narrowed it down to 2, because if you follow them, you will be following the entire law.  You won't sin against God or your neighbor.  He wasn't doing away with the other laws.  We are saved because we believe in Jesus, but we cannot continue to live in sin and remain saved.  There are lists in the Bible of specific sins that will guarantee we will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.  It is good to know what those things are. 

There are two extreme sides of the fleshly nature, like two deep ditches on either side of the road of real spritual life. Those ditches are extreme license and extreme legalism. Hedonists live with extreme license (no rules), and radical muslims (religionists) in extreme legalism, for example. License is an aberration of the truth of freedom in God, and legalism is an aberration of obedience to God. Hedonists are irreligious, and legalists worship rules, not the true Person of God. Both are false extremes, and each one hates and despises the other.

The truth is that he whom the Son sets free is truly free, and he who abides in the true love and grace of God breaks no true law of God as he so walks. Being legalistic does not make one spiritual, and neither does being hedonistic make one free, but both are bondage to the spirit of this world, and slaves to the fleshly nature. Christians who lean hard in one direction or the other tend to despise greatly the one who leans in the opposite direction, but both are carnal and not truly walking by the Holy Spirit alone and His grace alone. 

The scriptures are neither legalistic or hedonistic, but represent the way, truth, and life only. People with a soul bent in either extreme as described will then attempt to bend the scripture to their own understandings and preference, and wrongly do so in every case. Here again, the problem is never the scripture, but the bias with which one comes to it and reads into it according to fleshly and carnal mindsets

 

It is interesting that you should mention radical Muslims, because if I was a Muslim, there is little doubt I would be one of the radicals.  If I believe in something, I really believe in it as written.  It just happens my faith is in the God of the Bible, and I really believe what the Bible teaches is true, so I believe in following it.  We aren't saved by simply following rules, because we still wouldn't measure up, but neither are we saved by believing and having no change in our life.  Faith without works is dead, according to James.  True faith brings a change in lifestyle.  We know what is right in the sight of God by his Word. 

 

I wholeheartedly agree, Butero! I desire to live radically for Christ. I hope you can see my point here, though. There are fleshly people driven by pleasure, and fleshly people driven by prideful legalism, but both are still fleshly. One is no more spiritual than the other. A murderous muslim is no better than a drug addicted homosexual. An unsaved legalist is more likely to try to use the Bible to justify themselves, but is still no more saved than the hedonist, having not a true love and devotion to Jesus Christ. Neither "knows" the Master.

[Willa]

And the father him silfe which hath sent me beareth witnes of me. Ye have not hearde his voyce at eny tyme nor ye have sene his shape: 38 therto his wordes have ye not abydinge in you. For whome he hath sent: him ye beleve not. 39 Searche the scriptures for in them ye thinke ye have eternall lyfe: and they are they which testify of me. 

Since tyndale is easier for me to understand than kjv and it is the ony other version I could find that omitted the you, I used it to put this verse into context.

1. God,s words don,t abide in them. If they had internalized and applied God,s Word to themselves, they would have recognized and believed Christ,s words as well. Perhaps this is just the work of the H.S. but it would seem that many of his followers did not have this problem.

2 When we search to find truth we are more apt to find it. When we search to uphold pre conceived notions or pet doctrines, we may miss the revelation of Christ in His Word. It would seem that pride and hardness of heart are part of the problem. Knowledge puffs up but love edifies. So it is the application of the Word guided by love that builds us up as well as the body of Christ. Perhaps this is how respected theologians can miss salvation.

This is my thoughts and impression after reading the postings in total.

Blessings

Willa

[Guest Butero]

And the father him silfe which hath sent me beareth witnes of me. Ye have not hearde his voyce at eny tyme nor ye have sene his shape: 38 therto his wordes have ye not abydinge in you. For whome he hath sent: him ye beleve not. 39 Searche the scriptures for in them ye thinke ye have eternall lyfe: and they are they which testify of me. 

Since tyndale is easier for me to understand than kjv and it is the ony other version I could find that omitted the you, I used it to put this verse into context.

1. God,s words don,t abide in them. If they had internalized and applied God,s Word to themselves, they would have recognized and believed Christ,s words as well. Perhaps this is just the work of the H.S. but it would seem that many of his followers did not have this problem.

2 When we search to find truth we are more apt to find it. When we search to uphold pre conceived notions or pet doctrines, we may miss the revelation of Christ in His Word. It would seem that pride and hardness of heart are part of the problem. Knowledge puffs up but love edifies. So it is the application of the Word guided by love that builds us up as well as the body of Christ. Perhaps this is how respected theologians can miss salvation.

This is my thoughts and impression after reading the postings in total.

Blessings

Willa

I think there is truth in what you said.  It well could be that the religious crowd refused to see Jesus when he was there in the scriptures because they had a hard heart, and they weren't really wanting the truth.  It is also true that there is a difference in studying scripture to back up an already held belief and doing so to get the truth.  Good points. 

[nebula]

It is not an either or choice of "living off the knowledge of good and evil rather than off of life."

According to Genesis 3, eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil resulted in man being cast out of the Garden so that he would not be able to eat from the Tree of Life. It does sound like an either-or situation to me.

 

22 And the LORD God said , Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat , and live for ever: 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken . 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way , to keep the way of the tree of life.

The Bible states that God's people are destroyed because of a lack of knowledge.

But which knowledge?

 

1 Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land. 2 By swearing , and lying , and killing , and stealing , and committing adultery , they break out , and blood toucheth blood. 3 Therefore shall the land mourn , and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish , with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away . 4 Yet let no man strive , nor reprove another: for thy people are as they that strive with the priest. 5 Therefore shalt thou fall in the day, and the prophet also shall fall with thee in the night, and I will destroy thy mother. 6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. 7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame. (Hosea 4}

So please do not advocate "knowing good and evil" as being godly!

 

We need to know what God says in his Word.

I was never in denial of this, and I am sure if you had challenged the author of the OP, he would tell you likewise.

 

"So many people preferred to make obeying the Bible an end in and of itself without actually seeing it as a means to find God."

He is not saying, "Don't obey," but rather challenging why one obeys.

 

"I don’t see Jesus telling us to slack off in our scripture reading or to make up our own rules. Rather, he’s calling us to keep the purpose of Scripture in mind. Is our reading of Scripture leading us closer to love of God and love of neighbor? Is our reading of Scripture leading to spiritual restoration or exhaustion on the Sabbath?"

So please stop arguing a claim that was never made.

 

Jesus was asked what the great commandment was, and he narrowed it down to 2, because if you follow them, you will be following the entire law.  You won't sin against God or your neighbor.  He wasn't doing away with the other laws.  We are saved because we believe in Jesus, but we cannot continue to live in sin and remain saved.  There are lists in the Bible of specific sins that will guarantee we will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.  It is good to know what those things are.

Again, you are mis-reading what the author was saying.

What he is saying rather is more along the lines of:

Why do you bend over backwards trying to avoid sinning - is it to keep your salvation or is it out of love for God and love for others?

[nebula]

2 When we search to find truth we are more apt to find it. When we search to uphold pre conceived notions or pet doctrines, we may miss the revelation of Christ in His Word. It would seem that pride and hardness of heart are part of the problem. Knowledge puffs up but love edifies. So it is the application of the Word guided by love that builds us up as well as the body of Christ. Perhaps this is how respected theologians can miss salvation.

 

Thank-you!

[nebula]

AJ, thank-you for the input you have brought into this thread.

 

 

But what you said here touches on the message I received from reading the article posted in the OP.

 

... There are fleshly people driven by pleasure, and fleshly people driven by prideful legalism, but both are still fleshly. One is no more spiritual than the other. A murderous muslim is no better than a drug addicted homosexual. An unsaved legalist is more likely to try to use the Bible to justify themselves, but is still no more saved than the hedonist, having not a true love and devotion to Jesus Christ. Neither "knows" the Master.

 

 

"There are ... fleshly people driven by prideful legalism, but ... still fleshly. One is no more spiritual than the other. ..... An unsaved legalist is more likely to try to use the Bible to justify themselves, but is still no more saved than the hedonist, having not a true love and devotion to Jesus Christ. Neither "knows" the Master."

[nebula]

Thank-you, Kwik!

 

Your words have a way of bringing healing!

 

 

 

Blessings Everyone...

     Thanks neb,the OP is an interesting take this Micha Barnett(was that her name)has on the Jews rejecting Christ.....bottom line.I disagree with her interpretation that the Jews living under the law were more focused on reading the Sciptures than seeking God.......I do not think that reading the Scriptures could ever lead anyone away from God but having a hardened heart can & not "receiving" Gods Word through the study of Scripture...it was not that the Pharisees,religious experts & teachers of the law had a barrier between them & God because of the Scriptures but because they were doing everything of their own effort trying to fulfill the law....there they were ,face to face with the very One they had been waiting for & had their hopes on & they could not see Who He was.....blind eyes & deaf ears by the god of this world

      This is a very good example of trying to reconcile oneself to God.....without Jesus,no one can come to the Father....the Scriptures & the law did not cause the hardening of their hearts.....the enemy did,that is why Jesus called them a brood of vipers,sons of satan

                                                                                                                                   With love-in Christ,Kwik

 

The parts above I put in bold are what I believe the OP is addressing.

 

It's all about what is in one's heart and what their motive is when reading and searching Scripture.