nebula Posted March 7, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 Obedience for the sake of obedience is never something Jesus seemed to advocate, did He? Well, he did say that if you love Me, keep my commandments. So obedience is for the sake of love. And He did enforce the jot & tittle of the Law of Moses. But indeed, obedience for the sake of obedience is a deficient theology & morality. I don't think we understand any commandment right until we see how it fits into the 2 big commandments. But it is a big canard to claim that loving someone's word is foreign to loving the person. I don't think the author was trying to discourage people from the Bible. I think that the words and phrases he used which made it sound that way were meant for shock value and to get people's attention. But if you read the entire article, not just what I posted, ask yourself if he is truly trying to shove the Scriptures down, or just how we perceive them? Are you reading and studying the Word to know "stuff" or to know Him? Goodness, I posted a thread encouraging people to post about what Genesis 1 teaches them about God, yet most responders are more concerned with arguing time frames and defeating evolution than they are finding God. "But indeed, obedience for the sake of obedience is a deficient theology & morality. I don't think we understand any commandment right until we see how it fits into the 2 big commandments." Bingo!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted March 7, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.95 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted March 7, 2014 Obedience for the sake of obedience is dictatorship leading to depression and distress - God demands obedience for love's sake because He knows that disobedience leads to heartache and regret and separation from Him. Obeying Him and His commands leads to eternal security and peace of heart and mind. That is why to read the Bible is to learn and know and understand the why and where God is leading us. Theologians tend to take a stand on one part of the Bible and neglect the Author, the why and where it is all leading. Some tend to get involved to the point they become the importance of the text. The Bible shows the history of disobedience and punishment and the future reward of obeying the Words of God for love's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 7, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 Theologians tend to take a stand on one part of the Bible and neglect the Author, the why and where it is all leading. And I believe this was the point the author was trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Everyone is continuing to debate, partially based on a lie. I am referring to John 5:39. Jesus never said the Pharisees had been searching the scriptures. He told them they need to search the scriptures. It appears Jesus is saying that because of a poorly worded translation Nebula was using, but notice what it says in the KJV Bible. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. See how much different that is when you take the word "You" out of it. I could use this as a jumping off point to attack her translation, but I don't even think her translation is saying anything different than mine. It was not meaning they already do it, even in that translation, but it is saying that they need to search the scriptures, because if they do, they will see how they testify of Christ. If you are basing your conclusions that the religious crowd studied scripture based on that, you are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 7, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 Everyone is continuing to debate, partially based on a lie. I am referring to John 5:39. Jesus never said the Pharisees had been searching the scriptures. He told them they need to search the scriptures. It appears Jesus is saying that because of a poorly worded translation Nebula was using, but notice what it says in the KJV Bible. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. See how much different that is when you take the word "You" out of it. I could use this as a jumping off point to attack her translation, but I don't even think her translation is saying anything different than mine. It was not meaning they already do it, even in that translation, but it is saying that they need to search the scriptures, because if they do, they will see how they testify of Christ. If you are basing your conclusions that the religious crowd studied scripture based on that, you are wrong. Except that according to what Shiloh and Qnts are posting, they knew the Scriptures. But even so, by this wording: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life" - it sounds as if Jesus is saying that they are wrong in thinking that they find eternal life in the Scriptures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Obedience for the sake of obedience is never something Jesus seemed to advocate, did He? Well, he did say that if you love Me, keep my commandments. So obedience is for the sake of love. And He did enforce the jot & tittle of the Law of Moses. But indeed, obedience for the sake of obedience is a deficient theology & morality. I don't think we understand any commandment right until we see how it fits into the 2 big commandments. But it is a big canard to claim that loving someone's word is foreign to loving the person. I don't think the author was trying to discourage people from the Bible. I think that the words and phrases he used which made it sound that way were meant for shock value and to get people's attention. But if you read the entire article, not just what I posted, ask yourself if he is truly trying to shove the Scriptures down, or just how we perceive them? Are you reading and studying the Word to know "stuff" or to know Him? Goodness, I posted a thread encouraging people to post about what Genesis 1 teaches them about God, yet most responders are more concerned with arguing time frames and defeating evolution than they are finding God. "But indeed, obedience for the sake of obedience is a deficient theology & morality. I don't think we understand any commandment right until we see how it fits into the 2 big commandments." Bingo!! The author is attacking doctrine because if you place no emphasis on being correct, you will overlook all the things you are hearing that are full of holes. Someone makes a point that is not Biblical, and the person has been conditioned to overlook it. So what if they are a little off here or there? The most important thing is relationship, not being right when it comes to doctrine. Boy, that sounds so good and spiritual, but like everything else Satan does, it is a lie. Understanding doctrine is critical. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. 1 Timothy 1:8-11 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine. 1 Timothy 4:6 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 4:16,17 The guy who wrote the article in the OP is a deceiver. He makes his argument sound good and spiritual, but it is a lie. It is no different than the subtle way Satan tricked Eve with his question about will she surely die if she disobeys God, and how he used scripture to try to trip Jesus up. The devil can make things sound spiritual, but thankfully, if we know the Word, we won't be fooled. When I first read that verse Nebula used, claiming that Jesus told the Pharisees they had been studying the Word, I knew immediately something was wrong, because I knew that was not in my Bible, and I had enough of the Word inside to recognize it. If you don't know the Word, you will simply accept any quote anyone puts out there from any translation, in context or out of context. Knowing scripture and understanding doctrine is critical to standing up against the attacks of the devil. Instead of listening to this nonsense, I suggest you take up your sword and prepare for battle. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Ephesians 6:17 This is no time to lay down your sword. When Satan comes against you, he will destroy you. How did Jesus resist the devil when he was tempted? By quoting scripture. By using his sword, and you can't do that unless you know your Bible. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psalm 119:105 Have you ever tried to walk around in the dark, with no light at all? You tend to stumble. You might fall down and get hurt. That is what life is like when you don't have God's Word on the inside. Don't listen to the subtle lies of the author of the OP. He will only lead you astray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Everyone is continuing to debate, partially based on a lie. I am referring to John 5:39. Jesus never said the Pharisees had been searching the scriptures. He told them they need to search the scriptures. It appears Jesus is saying that because of a poorly worded translation Nebula was using, but notice what it says in the KJV Bible. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. See how much different that is when you take the word "You" out of it. I could use this as a jumping off point to attack her translation, but I don't even think her translation is saying anything different than mine. It was not meaning they already do it, even in that translation, but it is saying that they need to search the scriptures, because if they do, they will see how they testify of Christ. If you are basing your conclusions that the religious crowd studied scripture based on that, you are wrong. Except that according to what Shiloh and Qnts are posting, they knew the Scriptures. But even so, by this wording: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life" - it sounds as if Jesus is saying that they are wrong in thinking that they find eternal life in the Scriptures. Shiloh and Qnts have just accepted that what you posted is right without looking carefully at it. I know exactly what happened. I have made the same mistake in times past, but it just happens I have learned better over the years. When something doesn't sound quite right, I look it up. When something is wrong, I recognize it because I am one of those who has stayed in the Word, diligently studying scripture over the years, reading it over and over and over again. I have stuck with one translation, so I don't get so easily confused by the differences. Did the Pharisees and Sadducees study scripture? I think they did what people do today. They go to their Bible schools and learn what others tell them scriptures mean. That is not the same thing as actually studying the Bible. Based on what the Pharisees and Sadducees had been taught about scripture, they likely did believe they had eternal life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted March 7, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,138 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,435 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Shiloh and Qnts have just accepted that what you posted is right without looking carefully at it. I know exactly what happened. I have made the same mistake in times past, but it just happens I have learned better over the years. When something doesn't sound quite right, I look it up. When something is wrong, I recognize it because I am one of those who has stayed in the Word, diligently studying scripture over the years, reading it over and over and over again. I have stuck with one translation, so I don't get so easily confused by the differences. Did the Pharisees and Sadducees study scripture? I think they did what people do today. They go to their Bible schools and learn what others tell them scriptures mean. That is not the same thing as actually studying the Bible. Based on what the Pharisees and Sadducees had been taught about scripture, they likely did believe they had eternal life. Let me BTU, I thought this a good nickname for you, say your zeal and passion for God's Wordare commendable! However have you not read 1 Cor 12:27-31 27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way. NKJV These Letters (literally) that form this concept that came from Paul's Heart and God's Himself in The Holy Spirit teach us something... What is it? Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Shiloh and Qnts have just accepted that what you posted is right without looking carefully at it. I know exactly what happened. I have made the same mistake in times past, but it just happens I have learned better over the years. When something doesn't sound quite right, I look it up. When something is wrong, I recognize it because I am one of those who has stayed in the Word, diligently studying scripture over the years, reading it over and over and over again. I have stuck with one translation, so I don't get so easily confused by the differences. Did the Pharisees and Sadducees study scripture? I think they did what people do today. They go to their Bible schools and learn what others tell them scriptures mean. That is not the same thing as actually studying the Bible. Based on what the Pharisees and Sadducees had been taught about scripture, they likely did believe they had eternal life. Let me BTU, I thought this a good nickname for you, say your zeal and passion for God's Word are commendable! However have you not read 1 Cor 12:27-31 27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way. NKJV These Letters (literally) that form this concept that came from Paul's Heart and God's Himself in The Holy Spirit teach us something... What is it? Love, Steven This has zero to do with whether or not it is important to focus on scripture. Strangely enough, in a thread where people are downplaying Bible knowledge, they want to use the Bible to defend their positions. All God is saying is that love for God and your neighbor are the most important things, because in those two commandments hang all the laws. He isn't saying the gifts are unimportant, or study of scripture is unimportant. Go ahead and lay down your sword. See what happens. BTW, if the Holy Spirit wants to teach me something, I trust him to do it. I am not playing games like teacher and student. If you have a point to make, do so and I will consider it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted March 7, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,138 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,435 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Shiloh and Qnts have just accepted that what you posted is right without looking carefully at it. I know exactly what happened. I have made the same mistake in times past, but it just happens I have learned better over the years. When something doesn't sound quite right, I look it up. When something is wrong, I recognize it because I am one of those who has stayed in the Word, diligently studying scripture over the years, reading it over and over and over again. I have stuck with one translation, so I don't get so easily confused by the differences. Did the Pharisees and Sadducees study scripture? I think they did what people do today. They go to their Bible schools and learn what others tell them scriptures mean. That is not the same thing as actually studying the Bible. Based on what the Pharisees and Sadducees had been taught about scripture, they likely did believe they had eternal life. Let me BTU, I thought this a good nickname for you, say your zeal and passion for God's Wordare commendable! However have you not read 1 Cor 12:27-31 27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way. NKJV These Letters (literally) that form this concept that came from Paul's Heart and God's Himself in The Holy Spirit teach us something... What is it? Love, Steven This has zero to do with whether or not it is important to focus on scripture. Strangely enough, in a thread where people are downplaying Bible knowledge, they want to use the Bible to defend their positions. All God is saying is that love for God and your neighbor are the most important things, because in those two commandments hang all the laws. He isn't saying the gifts are unimportant, or study of scripture is unimportant. Go ahead and lay down your sword. See what happens. BTW, if the Holy Spirit wants to teach me something, I trust him to do it. I am not playing games like teacher and student. If you have a point to make, do so and I will consider it. You did not give inference to the focus of Scripture but how to focus on Scripture internally demandingthe way for proper interpretation to come thus all should be internally teachers... such as yourself right? It is not about who's who among men but the singular unto community unto God! Now please tell me your take on the Scripture as I have asked or don't but is the understanding of God's Working among us! Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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