King James Version question

[The_Patriot21]

 

 

Easter existed before as a pagan holiday, essentially the goddess Ishtar (Easter) of fertility.  The pagan Easter, Jewish Passover and Christian resurrection Sunday all fit around the same time, so I reckon they were combined.  Much like how Christmas falls near the start of winter, even though we know Christ wasn't born on December 25th.  It's one of those weird Catholic traditions that was started to combine pagan holidays with Christian events. 

actually, christmas being combined wasnt a catholic thing, the early christians did it to avoid peresecution by the romans-if they celebrated Christs birth on the actual day the romans would put them to death, so they combined it with the pagan holiday so the romans thought that they were celebrating the pagan one. The catholics just picked up on this and the actual day forgotten over time. Not sure on the easter part but it was likely combined as well.

 

That is interesting Patriot, and the first time I have heard it explained like that.  Do you have anything to document it?  I am not saying you are wrong, and it makes perfect sense.  I also know there is no way to prove any of the claims in absolute terms.  I was just wondering where you got the information.  Thanks. 

 

 

I don't honestly, that was something one of my professors in Bible college taught and I recall reading it on a book at the time as well. a google search shows that and a few other theories, such as the church switching it to try to replace the pagan holiday etc etc. That is the theory that makes the most sense to me as the christians in that time period were heavily persecuted.

[His_disciple3]

I am in no way a Bible scholar, But the way I see this post is that some things just can't win no matter what they do or say, I don't see why the true Authorized Word of God in our English language, would be any different. On one hand the critics of the King James Bible accuses it of being outdated, we no longer use that type of language. Then now on the other hand the OP (and many others posters) finds fault because the KJ translators updated a Holy/holiday from a Hebrew Holy day to a Christian Holiday, for the Christian readers of the New Testament. Let me ask a question and please Ponder(think) or even reckon  about it. you may even need to pray over it, has anything good came out of the new modern day translations. for all I see is division, confusion and attacks within the Body, on what was held as the HOLY WORD of God for some 400 years now.  The Word of God, the Spirit of God was to bring unity among the brethren, God is not the Author of confusion, and upon not understanding the Word, God said to ask Him, for wisdom not change His Word. Now I know One will ask then Why translate if we are to just ask God for wisdom and not change His Word.

Mark 13:10

10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

KJV

IF all English translations agreed with each other, I would have no problem with 29 different translations and if they do all agree then why do we need 29 different translations?

and ponder upon this also, some say we can't have a true English translation, due to the fact man had his hand in the translation, But the same people will refer to the greek manuscripts as truth, but over look the fact that the greek manuscripts is a translation itself, in the Gospels they spoke Hebrew and Aramaic. So if God can't give us His true Word in translations then two things occur: with God all things are NOT possible and if we are to preach the Word (the truth) and if faith cometh by hearing that TRUE Word(Gospel) then according to the critics of the AKJB, all who have come to Christ through any English translation are under a false gospel and damned for everlasting. For if a corn of wheat is wrong, if easter is wrong then who determines That John 3:16 is true?? now in my book it is not about my translation or your translation, but it should be about the truth, if we want to prove that the INSPIRED WORD of God is not true, then are we for God or against God??

[His_disciple3]

I posted a post here once about the new revision of the NIV, John 7:8 that has Jesus saying He is not going to a festival, but then went, and asked if anyone had a problem with that, If your kid told you that they were not going to a party but later went you should have a big problem with that. also the NASB in John 4:29 has the woman at the well saying(asking)implying that Jesus is Not the Christ. when I point these out to the readers of such translations they have no problem with the wording. but change the Passover to Easter, now that's unbearable!!!! Go figure!

John 7:8-10

New International Version (NIV)

8 You go to the festival. I am not[a] going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” 9 After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.

10 However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret.

Footnotes:

a.John 7:8 Some manuscripts not yet

John 4:29

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

29 “Come, see a man who told me all the things that I have done; this is not [a]the Christ, is it?”

Footnotes:

a.John 4:29 I.e. the Messiah

[LookingForAnswers]

I am in no way a Bible scholar, But the way I see this post is that some things just can't win no matter what they do or say, I don't see why the true Authorized Word of God in our English language, would be any different. On one hand the critics of the King James Bible accuses it of being outdated, we no longer use that type of language. Then now on the other hand the OP (and many others posters) finds fault because the KJ translators updated a Holy/holiday from a Hebrew Holy day to a Christian Holiday, for the Christian readers of the New Testament. Let me ask a question and please Ponder(think) or even reckon  about it. you may even need to pray over it, has anything good came out of the new modern day translations. for all I see is division, confusion and attacks within the Body, on what was held as the HOLY WORD of God for some 400 years now.  The Word of God, the Spirit of God was to bring unity among the brethren, God is not the Author of confusion, and upon not understanding the Word, God said to ask Him, for wisdom not change His Word. Now I know One will ask then Why translate if we are to just ask God for wisdom and not change His Word.

Mark 13:10

10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

KJV

IF all English translations agreed with each other, I would have no problem with 29 different translations and if they do all agree then why do we need 29 different translations?

and ponder upon this also, some say we can't have a true English translation, due to the fact man had his hand in the translation, But the same people will refer to the greek manuscripts as truth, but over look the fact that the greek manuscripts is a translation itself, in the Gospels they spoke Hebrew and Aramaic. So if God can't give us His true Word in translations then two things occur: with God all things are NOT possible and if we are to preach the Word (the truth) and if faith cometh by hearing that TRUE Word(Gospel) then according to the critics of the AKJB, all who have come to Christ through any English translation are under a false gospel and damned for everlasting. For if a corn of wheat is wrong, if easter is wrong then who determines That John 3:16 is true?? now in my book it is not about my translation or your translation, but it should be about the truth, if we want to prove that the INSPIRED WORD of God is not true, then are we for God or against God??

 

You bring up many good points, which I will try and respond to in time...two things comes to mind right off the bat...

You used the term "true Authorized Word of God"...to which I would have to ask, authorized by whom?

 

Then the second is that even the verse you gave above shows the problems with translations...

Mark 13:10

10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

 

This word published does not refer to written work,  during the time the AKJV was written the word publish simply meant to "make public". 

 

If you look at the word use in Mark 5:20...²⁰ And he departed, and began to publish in Decapolis how great things Jesus had done for him: and all men did marvel.  It is clear this is not using the word the way we do today.  So even the use of words in the English language changes, which is one of the many flaws with a book translated by men 400 plus years ago. 

[His_disciple3]

well authorized by inspiration from God to our Spiritual forefathers, the English speaking bible scholars who knew Greek and Hebrew, men that, I suppose was far more qualified to authorize than anyone, in these forums. also the Word says it is not for individual interpretation, so 47 men of God, that came into agreement with what the English translation should say. Men to whom had so much respect for the Holy Word of God, that some would even change writing instruments every time they needed new ink, instead of dipping into the ink blotter. Men to whom were burned at the stake so that I could open my KJB and learn truth of God.

 

as far as publish,  again we nick pick on words, ok   just say you are right on to make known, but don't we still need the truth to make known the truth, so if we don't have the truth in English then all who have heard of Jesus Christ in English knows not the truth, and if we can't have truth in English why are we preaching anything in English? But I would disagree that publish only means to make known, could also mean to write, for it was God that inspired every word, it was God that personal published the ten commandments, and that they had scripture, published in the new testament days for Phillip heard the eunuch reading scripture (Acts 8:26) so in Mark 5:20 how do you know that to publish means to speak, could he had not starting recording (writing or publishing) the great things Jesus had done, also it was Jesus in REV. that said:Rev 1:19

Write the things which thou hast seen.

KJV

a book that was published 400 years ago, we are not referring to a book, we are referring to The Holy Word of God. again I have to wonder why no one has as much a problem with Shakespheare's 400 year old writings as they do the KJB. also I don't think we give our kids much credit with the attack on the old English, they are suppose to be a lot smarter now than they were in the 1600's yet our kids can't look up a word that they don't understand anymore? or they can't ask a parent or teacher what is meant by a scripture in old English?

[Guest shiloh357]

well authorized by the Spiritual forefathers, the English speaking bible scholars who knew Greek and Hebrew, men that, I suppose was far more qualified to authorize than anyone, in these forums. also the Word says it is not for individual interpretation, so 47 men of God, that came into agreement with what the English translation should say. Men to whom had so much respect for the Holy Word of God, that some would even change writing instruments every time they needed new ink, instead of dipping into the ink blotter. Men to whom were burned at the stake so that I could open my KJB and learn truth of God.

 

The Word doesn't say that it is not for individual interpretation.  it says that no prophecy in Scripture is of private interpretation and in the Greek it refers to the private views of the writers.  They were not writing out of their own intellect, impuse or imagination, but they spoke as they were moved upon by the Holy Spirit.

 

Many of the claims made by the KJV only supporters were not made by the men who originally penned the text.  The KJV is really just a revision.  It the seventh in a line of revisions.  

 

  I love the KJV, but it is important to be honest about its weaknesses as a translation. 

[His_disciple3]

God gave the Word to men not man nor individual (Rightly divide) God required two or more as witnesses, confirming the truth, we are referring to the true Gospel, the Gospel is prophecy so the gospel is not for individual interpretation, again we play with words, due to typos, problems with the old printing press we have revisions but doesn't the Bible say that even silver is tried seven times to get it as pure as possible? a little leaven will leaven the whole lump. again it is summed it up as a certain translation, and the fact is lost that this is not just a translation we are needing, But truth, how can we preach truth, if God has not provided truth? I am doing a series now on "Faith cometh by hearing, but what are the children hearing". Scriptures speaks of a generation, of whom the Children have no faith! what are the children hearing; that we have to know Hebrew and Greek to have the truth. that we can't have truth through a English translation. then if God can't provide the truth in English, how do they have faith in how He can save us. wouldn't it be far harder to clean sin away, than to inspire translators to translate the truth in English or is there anything to hard for our God (yes there is according to some He can't give us a true Holy Word in English)? man is not to live by bread alone, but by ever word of God, but every word according to some is not truth???? why can't we preach if we have a problem with the word of God it is us that stand in need/help or error and not the Holy Word of God

[Guest shiloh357]

God gave the Word to men not man nor individual (Rightly divide) God required two or more as witnesses, confirming the truth, we are referring to the true Gospel, the Gospel is prophecy so the gospel is not for individual interpretation, again we play with words, due to typos, problems with the old printing press we have revisions but doesn't the Bible say that even silver is tried seven times to get it as pure as possible?

 

Again, you are misquoting what the Bible actually says and Peter is very clear that "private interpretation"  doesn't refer to the reader's "interpretation" of the text ,but refers to the authors and to the divine origin of the text.  Peter is saying that it was not the authors who were the source of the Scripture but the Holy Spirit.  You need to start quoting and framing the text properly. 

 

But truth, how can we preach truth, if God has not provided truth? I am doing a series now on "Faith cometh by hearing, but what are the children hearing". Scriptures speaks of a generation, of whom the Children have no faith! what are the children hearing; that we have to know Hebrew and Greek to have the truth. that we can't have truth through a English translation. then if God can't provide the truth in English, how do they have faith in how He can save us. wouldn't it be far harder to clean sin away, than to inspire translators to translate the truth in English or is there anything to hard for our God (yes there is according to some He can't give us a true Holy Word in English)? man is not to live by bread alone, but by ever word of God, but every word according to some is not truth???? why can't we preach if we have a problem with the word of God it is us that stand in need/help or error and not the Holy Word of God

 

 

Who said we don't have the truth in English?

 

The KJV is a revision of a previous English translation.   Are you going to say that God, until, the KJV came around, did not give us the truth in English?   All of the English translations prior to the KJV were not the truth in English?    Are you going to say that was just not smart enough to give us the truth in English until the KJV came into existence?

 

The KJV is just a translation and it is a revision at that.  It is a translation of the inspired Word of God.  It has strengths and weakness just like every other translation.  We need to resist the temptation to make idols out translations. 

[His_disciple3]

God gave the Word to men not man nor individual (Rightly divide) God required two or more as witnesses, confirming the truth, we are referring to the true Gospel, the Gospel is prophecy so the gospel is not for individual interpretation, again we play with words, due to typos, problems with the old printing press we have revisions but doesn't the Bible say that even silver is tried seven times to get it as pure as possible?

Again, you are misquoting what the Bible actually says and Peter is very clear that "private interpretation"  doesn't refer to the reader's "interpretation" of the text ,but refers to the authors and to the divine origin of the text.  Peter is saying that it was not the authors who were the source of the Scripture but the Holy Spirit.  You need to start quoting and framing the text properly. 

 

But truth, how can we preach truth, if God has not provided truth? I am doing a series now on "Faith cometh by hearing, but what are the children hearing". Scriptures speaks of a generation, of whom the Children have no faith! what are the children hearing; that we have to know Hebrew and Greek to have the truth. that we can't have truth through a English translation. then if God can't provide the truth in English, how do they have faith in how He can save us. wouldn't it be far harder to clean sin away, than to inspire translators to translate the truth in English or is there anything to hard for our God (yes there is according to some He can't give us a true Holy Word in English)? man is not to live by bread alone, but by ever word of God, but every word according to some is not truth???? why can't we preach if we have a problem with the word of God it is us that stand in need/help or error and not the Holy Word of God

Who said we don't have the truth in English?

 

The KJV is a revision of a previous English translation.   Are you going to say that God, until, the KJV came around, did not give us the truth in English?   All of the English translations prior to the KJV were not the truth in English?    Are you going to say that was just not smart enough to give us the truth in English until the KJV came into existence?

 

The KJV is just a translation and it is a revision at that.  It is a translation of the inspired Word of God.  It has strengths and weakness just like every other translation.  We need to resist the temptation to make idols out translations.

Now who is twisting things that are said? the English translations before the KJB don't come into to play on this discussion, please don't cloud the issue. they are not available for easy access for the layperson. and the Great men of God that I spoke of earlier made the decision which Translation was authorized and approve for use to spread the gospel by inspiration of God. Scripture was given by inspiration from God to man, But even God used more than one man, that was my point. the Pope is not the infallible one here, God could have waited and give all scripture through one man, But that's not what He did now is it? He used MEN. there are 3 witnesses in Heaven, 2 witnesses in the end times. again you are trying to make this a translational issue. you just said we do not have the truth:

 

"The KJV is just a translation and it is a revision at that. It is a translation of the inspired Word of God. It has strengths and weakness just like every other translation." saith Shiloh

Scriptures says a little leaven will leaven the whole lump! if all translations according to you have weakness then you have just confirmed what I said earlier, according to the KJB critics: with God all things are NOT possible, he is not able to provide His preserved inspired PURE Word in English. if we don't have whole truth then who determines what truth is to be rightly divided? this should Be about what is being preached, not what translation, even if the KJB is not pure( as you claim) but the closest to it, then we are to feed His Sheep with Second or even third best????  He who is without cast the first stone, you knock the KJB and call it a revision, are you saying none are the other translations have been revised? see how we can go on and on twisting what each other says. but that only digs the hole deeper and further from the truth. you accuse me of worshipping a translation, Because I stand for truth, the disciples all gave their life for this truth that you say I worship, Great men of God, most to whom gave their life that you and I could have the truth in our English language, so thank you for putting me in that list. But I am in no way worthy of that. I just have to defend the truth within the BODY that should be walking in the unity of that truth. but the modern day translations cause strife/discord and confusion within that body.

Prov 6:16-19

16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

KJV

 

the Old Testament and New Testament is not just a book with worldly standards. But are just what they say they are testimonies from God and about God, one could even say two of His witnesses. if they are all false witnesses then we are all in trouble.

Isa 53:1

53 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

KJV

[Guest shiloh357]

Now who is twisting things that are said? the English translations before the KJB don't come into to play on this discussion, please don't cloud the issue. they are not available for easy access for the layperson. and the Great men of God that I spoke of earlier made the decision which Translation was authorized and approve for use to spread the gospel by inspiration of God. Scripture was given by inspiration from God to man, But even God used more than one man, that was my point. the Pope is not the infallible one here, God could have waited and give all scripture through one man, But that's not what He did now is it? He used MEN. there are 3 witnesses in Heaven, 2 witnesses in the end times. again you are trying to make this a translational issue. you just said we do not have the truth:

 

 

I am not clouding the issue.   I am bring up a very salient point.   The argument the KJV only people make is that the Aiuthorized Version of the KJV is the ONLY word of God to English speaking people

 

My question i s why didn't  God give the Word of God in English prior to the KJV?   Was God unable to get the truth to people in English prior to the KJV?   We don't need those translations in front of to answer that question.

 

Where was God's  truth in English prior to the KJV??

 

Scriptures says a little leaven will leaven the whole lump! if all translations according to you have weakness then you have just confirmed what I said earlier, according to the KJB critics: with God all things are NOT possible, he is not able to provide His preserved inspired PURE Word in English.

 

Wrong again.   God is able to preserve His truth in the feebleness of translations.  There are no perfect translations, including the KJV.  That doesn't mean that the truth isn't preserved in the KJV.   It simply means that you cannot overlook its weakness and be entirely honest about it.   While none fo the problems with the KJV effect doctrine, theere are imperfections and that is to be expected becauase fallible humans are part of the process.