enoob57 Posted April 13, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,163 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted April 13, 2014 Does anyone understand that evil is not a created essence but a perversion of the created essence?If that is true, it can happen again. History can repeat itself. You could wind up in heaven, and by and by get angry with God and rebel. You would have free will. Another angel could decide to rebel, like Lucifer did. Gabriel might decide to pervert "created essence" and lead a rebellion. Nobody will ever be secure. Evil may not exist in heaven, but angels and people could pervert the created essence again and wind up in hell. It may be after a million years, but it could happen. I don't believe in unconditional eternal security, but I do believe that once you make it to heaven, you won't have to worry about winding up in hell. You will be secure for eternity. If I believed as you do, I would have to believe born again Christians, overcomers, saints of God already in heaven, could rebel and become lost.No because God Who cannot lie says death and hell are swallowed up by Him and is kept only in His Own wrath for all eternity...He also says we are not children of wrath thus by the power of His Word what you fear cannot be so! Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Does anyone understand that evil is not a created essence but a perversion of the created essence? If that is true, it can happen again. History can repeat itself. You could wind up in heaven, and by and by get angry with God and rebel. You would have free will. Another angel could decide to rebel, like Lucifer did. Gabriel might decide to pervert "created essence" and lead a rebellion. Nobody will ever be secure. Evil may not exist in heaven, but angels and people could pervert the created essence again and wind up in hell. It may be after a million years, but it could happen. I don't believe in unconditional eternal security, but I do believe that once you make it to heaven, you won't have to worry about winding up in hell. You will be secure for eternity. If I believed as you do, I would have to believe born again Does anyone understand that evil is not a created essence but a perversion of the created essence? If that is true, it can happen again. History can repeat itself. You could wind up in heaven, and by and by get angry with God and rebel. You would have free will. Another angel could decide to rebel, like Lucifer did. Gabriel might decide to pervert "created essence" and lead a rebellion. Nobody will ever be secure. Evil may not exist in heaven, but angels and people could pervert the created essence again and wind up in hell. It may be after a million years, but it could happen. I don't believe in unconditional eternal security, but I do believe that once you make it to heaven, you won't have to worry about winding up in hell. You will be secure for eternity. If I believed as you do, I would have to believe born again Christians, overcomers, saints of God already in heaven, could rebel and become lost. Like I said before please go and review post #6.That can not happen.I can not grasp the things you have said.They are not Biblical therefore I do not believe it is healthy for me to read what you have said. I didn't say those things can happen. I said if Enoob is correct, those things can happen. I don't agree with Enoob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Does anyone understand that evil is not a created essence but a perversion of the created essence? If that is true, it can happen again. History can repeat itself. You could wind up in heaven, and by and by get angry with God and rebel. You would have free will. Another angel could decide to rebel, like Lucifer did. Gabriel might decide to pervert "created essence" and lead a rebellion. Nobody will ever be secure. Evil may not exist in heaven, but angels and people could pervert the created essence again and wind up in hell. It may be after a million years, but it could happen. I don't believe in unconditional eternal security, but I do believe that once you make it to heaven, you won't have to worry about winding up in hell. You will be secure for eternity. If I believed as you do, I would have to believe born again Christians, overcomers, saints of God already in heaven, could rebel and become lost. No because God Who cannot lie says death and hell are swallowed up by Him and is kept only in His Own wrath for all eternity... He also says we are not children of wrath thus by the power of His Word what you fear cannot be so! Love, Steven So what? You said God was caught off guard by what Lucifer did. You said he did things God did not anticipate. If he could be mistaken once, he can be mistaken again. Remember, in your world, God is not perfect. He is not all knowing. He is capable of mistakes. He may believe you will be kept perfect in heaven, and you may surprise him and rebel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted April 13, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,106 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,839 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2014 why would I be shocked... Does anyone understand that evil is not a created essence but a perversion of the created essence? yes, but in the instance of this question it doesn't really matter if God created the evil or created the entity that he knew would pervert things to evil. The question to me is did God know what would happen when he created Lucifer...... if the answer is yes then God did create evil. Right, and if he didn't know, he is not all knowing. It means he can't really see the future, so how can we trust Bible prophecy? I didn't say he couldn't see the future...... he's not bound by space and time..... once he creates something he can see it's whole life.... but can he see it before he creates it..... that's what I'm having trouble buying.... I just find it hard to believe that God willingly creates defiled things.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted April 13, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,163 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted April 13, 2014 why would I be shocked...Does anyone understand that evil is not a created essence but a perversion of the created essence?yes, but in the instance of this question it doesn't really matter if God created the evil or created the entity that he knew would pervert things to evil. The question to me is did God know what would happen when he created Lucifer...... if the answer is yes then God did create evil.Right, and if he didn't know, he is not all knowing. It means he can't really see the future, so how can we trust Bible prophecy?I think we are trying to limit God by our own limitations... I see it in results not in immediate! The Bride 'IS'the eternal arrival into the eternities whereby God has not increased nor decreased for those realities no longer exist...As in the beginning so it is not good for man to be alone in the innocent state without conscience. Had we exercised choicein the tree of life we would have been sealed into the eternal state but we did not choose that in Adam we chose other.That choice cost us all including our Lord dearly but together we have through much learning the unaffected love of GodThe True Nature of Sovereignty and the outcome remains the same in the eternal state!That is why I stress the need of giving no place to satan and His lies God hasn't...Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted April 13, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2014 why would I be shocked... Does anyone understand that evil is not a created essence but a perversion of the created essence? yes, but in the instance of this question it doesn't really matter if God created the evil or created the entity that he knew would pervert things to evil. The question to me is did God know what would happen when he created Lucifer...... if the answer is yes then God did create evil. Right, and if he didn't know, he is not all knowing. It means he can't really see the future, so how can we trust Bible prophecy? I didn't say he couldn't see the future...... he's not bound by space and time..... once he creates something he can see it's whole life.... but can he see it before he creates it..... that's what I'm having trouble buying.... I just find it hard to believe that God willingly creates defiled things.. oo God did not create Lucifer to be evil and rebel.He gave the angels free-will.Just like He did Adam and Eve.It was a choice.Just like we have a choice to believe in Him or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) why would I be shocked... Does anyone understand that evil is not a created essence but a perversion of the created essence? yes, but in the instance of this question it doesn't really matter if God created the evil or created the entity that he knew would pervert things to evil. The question to me is did God know what would happen when he created Lucifer...... if the answer is yes then God did create evil. Right, and if he didn't know, he is not all knowing. It means he can't really see the future, so how can we trust Bible prophecy? I didn't say he couldn't see the future...... he's not bound by space and time..... once he creates something he can see it's whole life.... but can he see it before he creates it..... that's what I'm having trouble buying.... I just find it hard to believe that God willingly creates defiled things.. He saw Jeremiah before he created him. He says so in the first chapter of Jeremiah. Before God created him in the womb, he knew him. Is it easier to believe God creates defective things? Edited April 13, 2014 by Butero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) why would I be shocked... Does anyone understand that evil is not a created essence but a perversion of the created essence? yes, but in the instance of this question it doesn't really matter if God created the evil or created the entity that he knew would pervert things to evil. The question to me is did God know what would happen when he created Lucifer...... if the answer is yes then God did create evil. Right, and if he didn't know, he is not all knowing. It means he can't really see the future, so how can we trust Bible prophecy? I didn't say he couldn't see the future...... he's not bound by space and time..... once he creates something he can see it's whole life.... but can he see it before he creates it..... that's what I'm having trouble buying.... I just find it hard to believe that God willingly creates defiled things.. oo God did not create Lucifer to be evil and rebel.He gave the angels free-will.Just like He did Adam and Eve.It was a choice.Just like we have a choice to believe in Him or not. But God has to give you the ability to believe. If not, you won't come to the faith. God is all knowing. He knew before he created you whether or not you would come to the faith or not. That means he created people knowing they wouldn't come to the faith. If that is not the case, God is not all knowing. BTW, how do I choose to believe something? I either believe or I don't. You can't conjur up faith. Edited April 13, 2014 by Butero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted April 13, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,163 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted April 13, 2014 Does anyone understand that evil is not a created essence but a perversion of the created essence?If that is true, it can happen again. History can repeat itself. You could wind up in heaven, and by and by get angry with God and rebel. You would have free will. Another angel could decide to rebel, like Lucifer did. Gabriel might decide to pervert "created essence" and lead a rebellion. Nobody will ever be secure. Evil may not exist in heaven, but angels and people could pervert the created essence again and wind up in hell. It may be after a million years, but it could happen. I don't believe in unconditional eternal security, but I do believe that once you make it to heaven, you won't have to worry about winding up in hell. You will be secure for eternity. If I believed as you do, I would have to believe born again Christians, overcomers, saints of God already in heaven, could rebel and become lost.No because God Who cannot lie says death and hell are swallowed up by Him and is kept only in His Own wrath for all eternity...He also says we are not children of wrath thus by the power of His Word what you fear cannot be so! Love, StevenSo what? You said God was caught off guard by what Lucifer did. You said he did things God did not anticipate. If he could be mistaken once, he can be mistaken again. Remember, in your world, God is not perfect. He is not all knowing. He is capable of mistakes. He may believe you will be kept perfect in heaven, and you may surprise him and rebel.No God 'IS' immovable ... It has not budged Him one iota... it is the Sovereign desire of the formation of The Bride tohave a self-determing will so in truth we are imaged as He 'IS'... God is exactly as He has chosen Himself to be so His desireis in that image for us to be... as the woman is of the man so we being made two must by unity in will become one so also TheChurch and Christ... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted April 13, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,163 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted April 13, 2014 Does anyone understand that evil is not a created essence but a perversion of the created essence?If that is true, it can happen again. History can repeat itself. You could wind up in heaven, and by and by get angry with God and rebel. You would have free will. Another angel could decide to rebel, like Lucifer did. Gabriel might decide to pervert "created essence" and lead a rebellion. Nobody will ever be secure. Evil may not exist in heaven, but angels and people could pervert the created essence again and wind up in hell. It may be after a million years, but it could happen. I don't believe in unconditional eternal security, but I do believe that once you make it to heaven, you won't have to worry about winding up in hell. You will be secure for eternity. If I believed as you do, I would have to believe born again Christians, overcomers, saints of God already in heaven, could rebel and become lost.No because God Who cannot lie says death and hell are swallowed up by Him and is kept only in His Own wrath for all eternity...He also says we are not children of wrath thus by the power of His Word what you fear cannot be so! Love, StevenSo what? You said God was caught off guard by what Lucifer did. You said he did things God did not anticipate. If he could be mistaken once, he can be mistaken again. Remember, in your world, God is not perfect. He is not all knowing. He is capable of mistakes. He may believe you will be kept perfect in heaven, and you may surprise him and rebel.So what? You said God was caught off guard by what Lucifer did. You said he did things God did not anticipate.I don't understand where you got this from! I said God knowing is not causal... in this way-> we were created with abeginning and our immediacy is not of God for He doesn't have a beginning. When God created angels and man with a self-determining willHe did so with foreknowledge knowing His Will be done with a perfect keeping of His created image in self-determination... either choicewe made kept His Will of outcome unchanged only suffering where suffering did not necessitate that desired outcome but became necessarydo to the self-determining choice we made based on lie! Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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