Understanding Hebrew Roots means...

[Qnts2]

Qnts2

 

Israelites are all children of Israel. Babylon conquered the children of Israel in the land called Judea. When the children of Israel were dispersed by Babylon, they were called Jews by the Babylonians, from Judea. Some of all 12 tribes had lived in Judea, and all 12 were referred to a 'Jews'. You are trying to make a distinction which did not exist. Only Two House/British Israelism etc, try to make the distinction that the term Jews only applies to the tribe of Judah. Judea was so named because Judah was the largest tribe in Judea, but some of all tribes lived in Judea, and were nicknamed Jews by the Babylonians. Paul, a Benjamite called himself a Jew. And that is in scripture.

 

No offence but this is such a weak argument and really the crux of the errors when it comes to who is a jew and who isnt....this confusion that ALL 12 Tribes of Israel are Jews is complete nonsense especially based on the notion that just because some of the Israelites who migrated from the house of Israel into the house of Judah therefore we must know conclude ALL 12 tribes have become Jews? Is this really the nonsense we have come to believe?

 

Are ALL 12 tribes Jews or in other words how many of the tribes are Jews?

 

The answer is no and 2 tribes are Jews....and let me try prove it to the best of my ability.

 

We need to look at the prophecy of the House of Israel (ten tribes, Israelites) and the House of Judah (Judah and Benjamin = 2, Jews)

 

Let me also make it very clear I am not talking Israel/britian doctrine or any form of doctrine, I'm talking purely about ISRAELITES/HEBREWS

 

It was NEVER God's plan for all tribes to remain in Israel and it was NEVER Gods plan for Israel and Judah to remain together, until the millennium.

 

 

And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed” (Genesis 28:14).

 

“Until the LORD removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.”

 

This is specific prophecy to the HOUSE of ISRAEL

 

Lets look at birthrights

For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph's” (1 Chronicles 5:2). The sons of Joseph would become like the stars of heaven, etc., not Judah.

 

The Abrahamic covenant was divided in Genesis chapters 48 and 49. “Judah was his sanctuary and Israel his dominion” (Psalm 114:2). “The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be” (Genesis 49:10). The sons of Joseph received the birthright, Judah the Scepter.

 

The Second recovery

Isaiah 11 speaks of a “second time” recovery, when was the first recovery?

 

1st recovery = The first gathering took place after the Assyrian captivity. God led the 10 tribes from Assyria into the “wilderness” (Hosea 2:14) where they would “renew their strength” (Isaiah 41:1) in a place where “never mankind dwelt” (II Esdras 13:39-45). There they would find “grace in the wilderness” and “rest” (Jeremiah 31:1-2). A place where Israel will “sing” and “praise” the LORD (Isaiah 42:10-12).

 

2nd recovery = 'Return, backsliding Israel,' says the LORD" (Jeremiah 3:12). from where? From the north country" (Jeremiah 31:8).They shall walk after the LORD. He will roar like a lion. When He roars, then His sons shall come trembling from the west" (Hosea 11:10). Surely these shall come from afar; look! Those from the north and the west...." (Isaiah 49:12).

 

Side note: Pay close attention

 

“Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers” (Jeremiah 16:14-15).

 

“And He [YEHOVAH God] shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth” (Isaiah 11:12).

 

watch this now.... (Jer 16:14-15) + (Isaiah 11:12) = Matt 24:30-31 & Isaiah 27:12-13

 

“And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he [YEHOVAH God -- see Isaiah 27:12-13] shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

 

“And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.”

 

Did you just get that?

 

Trumpets are mentioned many times in the Bible but there are only two places where the term “great trumpet” is mentioned: Isaiah 27:13 and Matthew 24:30-31 and both speak of the re-gathering of Israel.

 

Modern Israel

what you see is the STATE of Judah in the LAND called Israel

 

There is a BIG difference between LAND called Israel and HOUSE of Israel

 

Remember

The LORD was very angry with Israel and removed them out of His sight; there was none left but the Tribe of Judah only" (2 Kings 17:18).

 

 

Peter sheds more light on this I Peter 2:9 sheds more light on this: “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people...” all Old Testament references to Israel (Exodus 19:5-6. Deuteronomy 14:2, 26:18).

 

Peter goes on to say, (v. 10) "Which in time past were "not a people" [Lo-Ammi], but are now the "people of God" [Ammi]. Which had "not obtained mercy" [Lo-ruhama] but now have "obtained mercy" [Ru-hama].

 

Compare Peter’s statement with Hosea 2:23: "And I will sow [Jezreel] her unto Me in the earth; and I will have mercy [Ru-hama] upon her that had not obtained mercy; [Lo-ru-hama] and I will say to them which were not My people, [Lo-ammi] Thou art My people; [Ammi] and they shall say, Thou art my God." Peter is quoting Hosea virtually verbatim.

 

This is the fulfillment of Hosea’s prophecies. No other race of people, including Judah, could fulfill this prophecy except the 10 tribes -- and that’s who Peter is writing to. In Romans chapters 9, 10 and 11 Paul talks about Israel: third person. Peter is talking to Israel: second person. Paul quoted the same verses as Peter telling the Romans that they must be fulfilled. Peter is saying that these prophecies have been fulfilled. They were fulfilled by the Galatians accepting Christianity. We now know that a portion of the 10 tribes were located in Asia Minor in the first century.

 

Pay attention Qnts2 You are part of the lost tribe of the House of Israel, proof of this ( As I know you are a "messianic jew") is you have accepted Christianity as propheciesed

 

This is what Isaiah 54 -- and Romans 9, 10 and 11 -- speaks of:

 

These verses are NOT speaking of Judah. They speak of what YEHOVAH God will do after Israel’s Assyrian captivity. Hosea 1 and 2 speaks of the same event.

 

 

“For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, [bill of divorce] saith thy God. (7), For a small moment [from the time of the divorce to the Tree] have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. (8), In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, [through the Tree] saith the LORD thy Redeemer. (9), For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.” What an amazing love letter and promise to God's wife the House of Israel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jew is a slang expression which started to be used during the Babylonian captivity, by the Babylonians. It is short for the people captured from Judea.  

 

You originally stated that Jews were only the tribe of Judah, but when I pointed out that as incorrect, you now say Jews are two tribes. But history shows that the term Jews is used by children of Israel from all 12 tribes and always has been since the Babylonian captivity. Those taken into Babylonian captivity from Judea were the majority of the tribe of Judah, the majority of the tribe of Benjamin, the majority of the tribe of Levi, and about 10% of the tribes of  Reuben, Simeon, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Dan, Naphtali, Gad and Asher.  People from all twelve tribes were called Jews and adopted that slang term for themselves.  Today, some of the scattered tribes which had not moved to Judea to escape the Assyrian capivity, are now returning to Israel. They were scattered before the Babylonian captivity and were not involved in the Babylonian captivity, so had not yet adopted the slang term 'Jews', but are now using the term Jews. But, again, there was no time since the Babylonian captivity that some of all 12 tribes used the term Jew.  

 

In my opinion, making an argument against what is so plainly and historically true does not do much good for Christians. It is an interpretation which inserts an error, and makes Christianity appear faulty to the Jewish people who know better.  

[Qnts2]

 

 

Qnts2

 

Israelites are all children of Israel. Babylon conquered the children of Israel in the land called Judea. When the children of Israel were dispersed by Babylon, they were called Jews by the Babylonians, from Judea. Some of all 12 tribes had lived in Judea, and all 12 were referred to a 'Jews'. You are trying to make a distinction which did not exist. Only Two House/British Israelism etc, try to make the distinction that the term Jews only applies to the tribe of Judah. Judea was so named because Judah was the largest tribe in Judea, but some of all tribes lived in Judea, and were nicknamed Jews by the Babylonians. Paul, a Benjamite called himself a Jew. And that is in scripture.

 

No offence but this is such a weak argument and really the crux of the errors when it comes to who is a jew and who isnt....this confusion that ALL 12 Tribes of Israel are Jews is complete nonsense especially based on the notion that just because some of the Israelites who migrated from the house of Israel into the house of Judah therefore we must know conclude ALL 12 tribes have become Jews? Is this really the nonsense we have come to believe?

 

Are ALL 12 tribes Jews or in other words how many of the tribes are Jews?

 

The answer is no and 2 tribes are Jews....and let me try prove it to the best of my ability.

 

We need to look at the prophecy of the House of Israel (ten tribes, Israelites) and the House of Judah (Judah and Benjamin = 2, Jews)

 

Let me also make it very clear I am not talking Israel/britian doctrine or any form of doctrine, I'm talking purely about ISRAELITES/HEBREWS

 

It was NEVER God's plan for all tribes to remain in Israel and it was NEVER Gods plan for Israel and Judah to remain together, until the millennium.

 

 

And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed” (Genesis 28:14).

 

“Until the LORD removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.”

 

This is specific prophecy to the HOUSE of ISRAEL

 

Lets look at birthrights

For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph's” (1 Chronicles 5:2). The sons of Joseph would become like the stars of heaven, etc., not Judah.

 

The Abrahamic covenant was divided in Genesis chapters 48 and 49. “Judah was his sanctuary and Israel his dominion” (Psalm 114:2). “The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be” (Genesis 49:10). The sons of Joseph received the birthright, Judah the Scepter.

 

The Second recovery

Isaiah 11 speaks of a “second time” recovery, when was the first recovery?

 

1st recovery = The first gathering took place after the Assyrian captivity. God led the 10 tribes from Assyria into the “wilderness” (Hosea 2:14) where they would “renew their strength” (Isaiah 41:1) in a place where “never mankind dwelt” (II Esdras 13:39-45). There they would find “grace in the wilderness” and “rest” (Jeremiah 31:1-2). A place where Israel will “sing” and “praise” the LORD (Isaiah 42:10-12).

 

2nd recovery = 'Return, backsliding Israel,' says the LORD" (Jeremiah 3:12). from where? From the north country" (Jeremiah 31:8).They shall walk after the LORD. He will roar like a lion. When He roars, then His sons shall come trembling from the west" (Hosea 11:10). Surely these shall come from afar; look! Those from the north and the west...." (Isaiah 49:12).

 

Side note: Pay close attention

 

“Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers” (Jeremiah 16:14-15).

 

“And He [YEHOVAH God] shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth” (Isaiah 11:12).

 

watch this now.... (Jer 16:14-15) + (Isaiah 11:12) = Matt 24:30-31 & Isaiah 27:12-13

 

“And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he [YEHOVAH God -- see Isaiah 27:12-13] shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

 

“And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.”

 

Did you just get that?

 

Trumpets are mentioned many times in the Bible but there are only two places where the term “great trumpet” is mentioned: Isaiah 27:13 and Matthew 24:30-31 and both speak of the re-gathering of Israel.

 

Modern Israel

what you see is the STATE of Judah in the LAND called Israel

 

There is a BIG difference between LAND called Israel and HOUSE of Israel

 

Remember

The LORD was very angry with Israel and removed them out of His sight; there was none left but the Tribe of Judah only" (2 Kings 17:18).

 

 

Peter sheds more light on this I Peter 2:9 sheds more light on this: “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people...” all Old Testament references to Israel (Exodus 19:5-6. Deuteronomy 14:2, 26:18).

 

Peter goes on to say, (v. 10) "Which in time past were "not a people" [Lo-Ammi], but are now the "people of God" [Ammi]. Which had "not obtained mercy" [Lo-ruhama] but now have "obtained mercy" [Ru-hama].

 

Compare Peter’s statement with Hosea 2:23: "And I will sow [Jezreel] her unto Me in the earth; and I will have mercy [Ru-hama] upon her that had not obtained mercy; [Lo-ru-hama] and I will say to them which were not My people, [Lo-ammi] Thou art My people; [Ammi] and they shall say, Thou art my God." Peter is quoting Hosea virtually verbatim.

 

This is the fulfillment of Hosea’s prophecies. No other race of people, including Judah, could fulfill this prophecy except the 10 tribes -- and that’s who Peter is writing to. In Romans chapters 9, 10 and 11 Paul talks about Israel: third person. Peter is talking to Israel: second person. Paul quoted the same verses as Peter telling the Romans that they must be fulfilled. Peter is saying that these prophecies have been fulfilled. They were fulfilled by the Galatians accepting Christianity. We now know that a portion of the 10 tribes were located in Asia Minor in the first century.

 

Pay attention Qnts2 You are part of the lost tribe of the House of Israel, proof of this ( As I know you are a "messianic jew") is you have accepted Christianity as propheciesed

 

This is what Isaiah 54 -- and Romans 9, 10 and 11 -- speaks of:

 

These verses are NOT speaking of Judah. They speak of what YEHOVAH God will do after Israel’s Assyrian captivity. Hosea 1 and 2 speaks of the same event.

 

 

“For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, [bill of divorce] saith thy God. (7), For a small moment [from the time of the divorce to the Tree] have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. (8), In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, [through the Tree] saith the LORD thy Redeemer. (9), For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.” What an amazing love letter and promise to God's wife the House of Israel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jew is a slang expression which started to be used during the Babylonian captivity, by the Babylonians. It is short for the people captured from Judea.  

 

You originally stated that Jews were only the tribe of Judah, but when I pointed out that as incorrect, you now say Jews are two tribes. But history shows that the term Jews is used by children of Israel from all 12 tribes and always has been since the Babylonian captivity. Those taken into Babylonian captivity from Judea were the majority of the tribe of Judah, the majority of the tribe of Benjamin, the majority of the tribe of Levi, and about 10% of the tribes of  Reuben, Simeon, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Dan, Naphtali, Gad and Asher.  People from all twelve tribes were called Jews and adopted that slang term for themselves.  Today, some of the scattered tribes which had not moved to Judea to escape the Assyrian capivity, are now returning to Israel. They were scattered before the Babylonian captivity and were not involved in the Babylonian captivity, so had not yet adopted the slang term 'Jews', but are now using the term Jews. But, again, there was no time since the Babylonian captivity that some of all 12 tribes used the term Jew.  

 

In my opinion, making an argument against what is so plainly and historically true does not do much good for Christians. It is an interpretation which inserts an error, and makes Christianity appear faulty to the Jewish people who know better.  

 

 

You originally stated that Jews were only the tribe of Judah

I was actually being more specific 

 

But history shows that the term Jews is used by children of Israel from all 12 tribes and always has been since the Babylonian captivity

right and that makes it correct? please can you provide me quotes from how Jewish scholars feel about that?

 

Here let me help you..

 

"The question before the Rabbis was only whether they would ever return, not whether they had ever returned. This distinction is critical, because many people, both Jews and non-Jews, erroneously assume that whenever Israel or the Jews are mentioned either in the Hebrew Prophets, Writings, or in post-Biblical literature, that all twelve tribes are included in the reference. Such an assumption ignores the Rabbinic position that the Ten Tribes were deported and had not returned as of the 2nd Century C.E., a position which is clearly borne out in all of the Hebrew Prophets and in many post-Biblical writings" (Will the Ten Tribes Return? Dennis Jones, United Israel web site).

 

“The Jews do not claim to represent the Twelve Tribes for the Ten Tribes never returned from captivity and are lost to history” (Rabbi Aaron Werner, when asked by Dr. Schiffner, 'Do the Jews represent all 12 tribes')

 

"The people known as Jews are the descendants of the Tribes of Judah and Benjamin, with a certain number of the Tribe of Levi. So far as is known, there is not any further admixture of other tribes. The Ten Tribes have been absorbed among the nations of the world. The Jews look forward to the gathering of all the tribes at some future date" (Dr. Hertz -- Chief Rabbi of the British Empire. 1918).

 

“So, to condense this massive summary all down to one sentence: the ten lost tribes were conquered, and, like almost every other conquered people in the ancient world, lost their separate identity and were assimilated away into the sands of history” (Collective summaries from Eli Barnavi's Historical Atlas of the Jewish People, Judah Gribetz's The Timetables of Jewish History, Joseph Telushkin's Biblical Literacy, and the Encyclopedia Judaica)

 

 

Your reasoning with the statement below is so unlogical and unreasonable it is to be untrue

 10% of the tribes of  Reuben, Simeon, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Dan, Naphtali, Gad and Asher.  People from all twelve tribes were called Jews and adopted that slang term for themselves. 

 

Right because NEB decided to paint them all with one paint brush it just stuck? 

All the individual people from their tribes in the House of Israel mentioned who simulated themselves into the kingdom of Judah speak on behalf for all the tribes which they come from in the house of Israel?

 

In my opinion, making an argument against what is so plainly and historically true does not do much good for Christians. It is an interpretation which inserts an error, and makes Christianity appear faulty to the Jewish people who know better.  

 

Well then you would need to revert back to the "jewish rabbis" who seem to agree with me, are then clearly wrong....your also missing the point of how the word gentile has been misused due to faulty translations, Christianity is not faulty, its the church doctrines that are....please also do me a favour and have a look where the word "gentile" originated from...its Latin by the way

 

Let me start by answering your previous post. The Assyrians no longer exist as an empire. When they overthrew the Northern Kingdom over 2500 years ago, they were already weakening. Babylon overthrew Assyria, so all 12 tribes were captive to Babylon.  

 

As far as Rabbinical opinion, the Rabbis are talking about those of the 12 tribes which were still gone, but they do not deny the existance of people from all 12 tribes being among the people who returned from Babylonian captivity to rebuild the Temple. I can give Rabbinical writings which mention people from all 12 tribes who were living together. I can show from scripture that some of all 12 tribes were in 'Judea' to provide a sacrifice at the Temple. Jewish Rabbi's do not agree with you because I can quote Rabbi's who do not agree with you. The Rabbis today say that people from the scattered/lost tribes are returning to Israel even as we speak and have been for a number of years.  

 

You are saying that experts in Hebrew and Greek who worked together as teams to ensure the most accurate translations are wrong?  Somehow, I don't believe you, but I do believe in the integrity of born again Christians who are experts, trained and fluent in the biblical languages who dedicated years of their lives, checking and double checking the translations as they were doing them.  When I first read the 'Gentile' bible in English , I compared it to the Hebrew and found that the translation is very accurate. Even the quotes of the OT in the NT, translated to English maintain accuracy. I have talked to the Christian professors who are experts in the languages, and have walked away very impressed at their level of knowledge. Sorry, but I am entirely comfortable with many of the accepted modern English translations which are held in high esteem.   

[OneLight]

We do find throughout the scriptures that there are 12 tribes and they all are His children.  If only two were truly His children, than Revelation is a false prophecy.  In revelation we read about the 144,000, 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes. 

 

Revelation 7:1-8

 

After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.

 

 

We also read that their names are on the walls of the New Jerusalem. 

Revelation 21:9-13

 

Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.

How can this be if they are not the true chosen of God?

[OneLight]

Please, do not copy such long posts. Do a little editing which makes it much easier to read.

[Qnts2]

I'll start with your bad assumption about bible translations. There are multiple Greek manuscripts which were used for translation. The Textus Receptus, Wescott and Hort, Codex Sinaiticus, and Codex Vaticanus.

 

The Textus Receptus was compiled from Greek manuscripts which were available at that time for the NT. It also made use of the Septuagint if there were any questions or conflicts. Only in cases of missing verses, or as a final comparison did they very rarely make use of the Latin Vulgate.

 

None of the other Greek manuscripts use the Latin Vulgate at all. So, I believe you are absolutely wrong concerning your view of the translation of Gentile. All of the experts in the original languages, sought to be highly accurate and did a wonderful job. 

 

To me it sounds like you have a theology which is inconvenienced by the opinions of the experts who did these wonderful translations, so you must find fault to match your theology. Sorry, what the experts choice was based on vaste knowledge and are solid translations.

 

We know the origin of the name Judea. Some of all twelve tribes lived in Judea. Jew is a slang term first applied by the Babylonians to the occupants of Judea, which was some of all 12 tribes. Over the centuries, the term Jew was applied to members of all 12 tribes. It is simply incorrect and has been from the beginning to say that the people slangly referred to Jews is only one tribe. It is not even biblical.

 

During the divided kingdom, some of the people from the north travelled to the south, to celebrate various Holy Days, like Passover. Some remained. When Assyria conquered the Norther kingdom, they did not take everyone.

 

Amos 5:3  For thus saith the Lord God; The city that went out by a thousand shall leave an hundred, and that which went forth by an hundred shall leave ten, to the house of Israel.

 

Ten percent were left behind, and during the time of Jeremiah, the moved to Judea. Today, others are returning.

 

As far as Rabbinical opinions, there are three main opinions.

 

1. The 10% plus some who returned are all that are going to return. This was promoted by Rabbi Akiva, who lived 40 ce to 137 ce. He lived during Jesus time, and was a very famous Rabbi.

 

2. Rabbi Eliezer thought that while some had returned, all of the exhiles would return when the Messiah comes.

 

3. The third opinion is that some had returned and some will return, but not all. 

 

Finally, Rambam said the dispute does not matter either way.

 

Ultimately, how many will return?  A remnant. Not all.

 

Isaiah 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

[Qnts2]

Some theologies have made much of Gods prophesy that the children of Israel would be as numerous 'as the sand by the sea'. That is a common expression in the OT, and means the number is so big, it is difficult to count. Counting one by one, to 1 million, is difficult to count. It is what is called a Hebraic exaggeration, to make a point. A whole bunch of them.

 

Joshua 11:1 And it came to pass, when Jabin king of Hazor had heard those things, that he sent to Jobab king of Madon, and to the king of Shimron, and to the king of Achshaph,

 

² And to the kings that were on the north of the mountains, and of the plains south of Chinneroth, and in the valley, and in the borders of Dor on the west,

³ And to the Canaanite on the east and on the west, and to the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Jebusite in the mountains, and to the Hivite under Hermon in the land of Mizpeh.

⁴ And they went out, they and all their hosts with them, much people, even as the sand that is upon the sea shore in multitude, with horses and chariots very many.

⁵ And when all these kings were met together, they came and pitched together at the waters of Merom, to fight against Israel.

 

The next verse is concerning the army being gathered in the fight between Absalom (David's son), and King David. The indication was that Absalom was to gather a large army to fignt King David.

 

  2 Samuel 17:11 Therefore I counsel that all Israel be generally gathered unto thee, from Dan even to Beersheba, as the sand that is by the sea for multitude; and that thou go to battle in thine own person.

  

The original blessings like this was given to Abraham:

  

Genesis  22:15 And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,

¹⁶ And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:

¹⁷ That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore;

    

Ex 32:13  Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.

 

 

 

Deut 1:5 On this side Jordan, in the land of Moab, began Moses to declare this law, saying,

⁶ The Lord our God spake unto us in Horeb, saying, Ye have dwelt long enough in this mount:

⁷ Turn you, and take your journey, and go to the mount of the Amorites, and unto all the places nigh thereunto, in the plain, in the hills, and in the vale, and in the south, and by the sea side, to the land of the Canaanites, and unto Lebanon, unto the great river, the river Euphrates.

⁸ Behold, I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land which the Lord sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them.

⁹ And I spake unto you at that time, saying, I am not able to bear you myself alone:

¹⁰ The Lord your God hath multiplied you, and, behold, ye are this day as the stars of heaven for multitude.

  

Just for reference, when the children of Israel left Egypt, with men, women and children, there was around  3 million which in scripture qualifies for a big enough number to be classified as a multitude as many as the stars in heaven.   There are currently over 6 million Jewish/children of Israel, living in Israel. That would be twice as many as qualified in scripture to be as numerous as the stars in heaven. There are as many as 14 million or 15 million Jewish people alive today. 

[Qnts2]

Encyclopedia Judaica Vol. 10, p. 21 is wrong

Nachmanides is considered one of the greatest Jewish scholars of the Middle Ages, some say one of the greatest of all time. Is wrong

 

I will get back to your above statement at the end…which I feel is important for understanding and finding the truth

.........................................................

 

 

Oh by the way the Jews who are returning now to Israel and have been, has been from the house fo Judah, Jesus hasn’t called the “house of Israel” yet….they waiting for the great trumpet.

 

Well, I will tell you that Nachmanides (AKA Ramban 1194 ce to 1270) is respected, I would not classify him as the greatest of all time. Mosheh ben Maimon (1135 ce to 1204) called Moses Maimonides or Rambam is generally considered greater the Ramban.

 

The greatest in Judaism is Moses. Of Rambam, it is said 'As a popular Jewish expression of the Middle Ages declares: “From Moses [of the Torah] to Moses [Maimonides] there was none like Moses.”' So Rambam is compared to the Moses of the Torah (OT). It is standard to give glowing reports of past scholar/Rabbis, but in actual hierarchical respect in Judaism, Rambam would definitely exceed Ramban.

[Qnts2]

 

 

I have gone over and over and over the same things. You are way to invested in your theology, which I consider false. I have walked thru it all. Your misinterpretation is due to your theology. Scripture should define theology, not theology define the meaning of scripture.  You are saying Christian experts in the biblical languages are wrong, and experts in Hebrew who practice Judaism are wrong. These two groups have no reason to be in agreement, other then they both want to give accurate translations of scripture. Yet, you say they are both wrong.

 

The OT prophesies that the Gentiles will come to the Messiah. The OT prophesies that the Gentiles are formed into a new nation, to make Israel jealous, and that is repeated in the NT. Surely God knew who the Gentiles were in the OT and NT and always planned on including Gentiles. The Messiah was never, ever just for the children of Israel, but was always planned as being the savior of the world.

 

At this point, I do not see a reason to continue the discussion as it is nothing but the same repetition.    

[Qnts2]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree, there simply is no point in carrying on as you refuse to back up your opinions or even accept that your wrong, your doctrine is replacing the house of Israel with some foreign concept....

 

"The OT prophesies that the Gentiles are formed into a new nation"

Show me...you cant

 

I have shown and proven to you your theology  makes Paul the father of replacement theology. I have not contradicted with any scriptures I have used, you have and I would suggest the same advice you preach to me as I dont have a theology and I would advice you to cast your theology aside as it seems to hinder you from finding the truth no matter what.

 

OH and consider this, please explain to me in logical sense how the Jews are to get jealous by a bunch of Romans for accepting Jesus? Yip and the Jews are still clearly Jealous of us even now?... The Jews could care less how the Constantinople Church is doing, however one can easily see the house of Judah being provoked to jealousy by the house of Israel.

 

Your use of of context is completely inconsistent. 

 

 

To answer with the scripture which says that Israel will be moved to jealousy by a foolish (new nation formed by God from people not from one nation, but from various nations).

 

Deut 32:21

They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

 

Repeated in the NT:

 

Romans 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

[Qnts2]

 

 

 

 

 

Hosea 1:10 is a prophecy for only northern Israel and repeated again in NT Romans 9:24-26 directed again for only northern Israel ( which you refuse to accept and will still maintain no it was for the "gentiles" - selective context, you are completely inconsistent ) 

 

 

Hosea 1:10  Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea

 

The term 'children of Israel' or 'sons of Israel', 'B'nei Yisrael' refers to the 12 sons of Jacob/Israel and their descendents. That means all 12 tribes. So, Hosea 1:10 is not directed just to Northern Israel, but all 12 tribes. Standard convention used throughout the OT.