Apologetic on Slavery & Rape in the Bible

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh357, on 20 Jun 2014 - 4:26 PM, said:

So you're saying that our current design is flawed, after all?  Such a modifcation is ridiculous to even contemplate, but I suppose if it helps deflect from the responses you would prefer to ignore, oh well....

I don't know if flawed is the right word, but certainly not the work of an omnipotent being.

 

and you would know that for a fact  because...?

 

Some claim this isn't special pleading but I think it is. You're simply making up an eternal being on the fly when you have no justification.

 

 

It doesn't matter if you think it is special pleading.  You don't get to decide what it is or isn't.  This discussion isn't going to be framed around your definition of terms.  I showed why it isn't special pleading and I am right  even if you can't muster up the honesty or integrity to admit it.  You don't get to frame how things are defined in this conversation.  This kind of nonsense shows why you can't really be trusted in a debate.

 

Ok I think you're just getting hung up on symantecs. Magic is an insult but miracles are ok? The point is, a mysterious power is being tapped into in order to create or change reality.

 

No, I am not splitting hairs.  You simply don't know what you're talking about.  Magic is, as someone has said, "targeted deception."    Miracles, in the biblical sense of the term, occur when God intervenes by suspending the natural laws of our world/universe for His own purpose and at His good pleasure.

 

Believing that God or gods are watching over our every move hasn't stopped humanity from horrible crimes. I think we can work towards a happy life w/o the need for a celestial overseer.

 

Most of humanity doesn't believe in the God of the Bible much less that they are made in His image.  Most of humanity has rejected that and that is why, in part, that we see such horrible crimes.

 

Again, the bloodiest wars ever fought have never been about religion or God.  Atheism, Fascism, Communism have been at the root of some of the most horrific crimes and atrocities in our world.   Look at the nations where atheism reigns.  There is no freedom, no happiness, or prosperity.  N. Korea is a good example of what happens when atheism is in charge.   Frankly Bonky, it is people that believe as you  do, that make the world dangerous, despotic and evil.

[Bonky]

Shiloh, I feel that I've been respectful in our discussion. You've asserted that I lack integrity and honesty simply because I don't agree with you. I will peacefully bow out of the discussion as I don't feel further discussion is worthwhile.

[enoob57]

Shiloh, I feel that I've been respectful in our discussion. You've asserted that I lack integrity and honesty simply because I don't agree with you. I will peacefully bow out of the discussion as I don't feel further discussion is worthwhile.

Okay how about a different approach... you don't have God on your side! Love, Steven

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh, I feel that I've been respectful in our discussion. You've asserted that I lack integrity and honesty simply because I don't agree with you. I will peacefully bow out of the discussion as I don't feel further discussion is worthwhile.

I didn't assert that at all.  And it has nothing to do with you disagreeing with me.  It has to do with the fact that when you run up against a fact you can't refute, you decide that you can redefine terms to suit your position.  That is a dishonest tactic.  You might be an honest person in other contexts, but you seem to not be able to operate that way in this discussion. 

 

But I agree that if you can't at least show some basic honesty when faced with facts about which you are clearly wrong, then you can't be trusted in a debate and any further discussion with you isn't worthwhile.

[digitalinchrist]

The stuff that causes the fights seems like mostly the old testament. And that stuff has nothing to do with faith in Jesus Christ.

[Guest]

Someone Worth

 

“But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live. Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live? Ezekiel 18:21-23 (ESV)

 

Fighting For

 

Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. Jude 1:3-4 (ESV)

 

I Think

 

~

 

The stuff that causes the fights seems like mostly the old testament. And that stuff has nothing to do with faith in Jesus Christ.

 

~

 

Nothing?

 

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. Isaiah 53:5-7

 

To Do With The Faith?

 

Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. Habakkuk 2:4

 

In The LORD Jesus, The Christ?

 

 

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14

 

Nothing In That Wonder Filled First Testament Of Jesus?

 

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

 

Hum.....

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Trinitron]

1 Peter 2:13-17

King James Version (KJV)

 

13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

 

According to this, I'd say to honour what ever anyones respective ruler's opinion is on this topic.

[digitalinchrist]

Someone Worth

 

“But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live. Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live? Ezekiel 18:21-23 (ESV)

 

Fighting For

 

Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. Jude 1:3-4 (ESV)

 

I Think

 

~

 

The stuff that causes the fights seems like mostly the old testament. And that stuff has nothing to do with faith in Jesus Christ.

 

~

 

Nothing?

 

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. Isaiah 53:5-7

 

To Do With The Faith?

 

Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. Habakkuk 2:4

 

In The LORD Jesus, The Christ?

 

 

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14

 

Nothing In That Wonder Filled First Testament Of Jesus?

 

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

 

Hum.....

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

 

Well you know what I mean, when someone like Westboro tries to use the OT to promote violence in Christ name. No man should come between us an our faith in Christ as or lord and savior that died for our sin.

[digitalinchrist]

1 Peter 2:13-17

King James Version (KJV)

 

13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

 

According to this, I'd say to honour what ever anyones respective ruler's opinion is on this topic.

 

Thanks, that is some good scripture to remember. But what about taking the mark of the beast? Would that not be willfully resisting the king (antichrist)?

[jerryR34]

 

 

 

Your second sentence is where the special pleading comes into play.

You are using special pleading because what you're saying is actually this:

Everything has a cause*

The universe had a cause.

Therefore, God caused it.

*except for my God.

 

More accurately everything that comes into existence has a cause.   First cause is not special pleading.   Special pleading is when you demand an exclusion without justification.

 

All vertebrae have spines

My dog is a vertebrae

Therefore, my dog has a spine.

 

If I demand that my dog is is not a vertebrae or that he has no spine, I am engaging in special pleading.

 

Saying that there must be an ultimate cause for the universe demands that the ultimate cause not have a cause.  Otherwise there would be a never ending string of causes going on through the indeterminate past, which even science rejects as plausible.

 

So it works like this

 

Everything that began to exist has a cause

The universe began to exist

Therefore the universe must have a cause.

 

Excluding God as the first cause and thus an uncaused cause isn't special pleading.

 

 

 

 This is laughable.  You just repeated what Bonky said - everything has a first cause except for what you don't want to have first cause.  You just tossed up a dog-spine strawman...