Lottery Tickets

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

playing for "hope of more money" and playing for entertainment are two very different things.... and both are valid reasons why some people buy lottery tickets or play poker (or any other form of gambling.)

 

not trying to force my views on you, just trying to broaden yours so that your view doesn't paint a picture of me.

 

You're not lying.  You're just not typical.

 

 

Or perhaps your experience in the matter is simply limited to what you've read Shiloh?

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

 

playing for "hope of more money" and playing for entertainment are two very different things.... and both are valid reasons why some people buy lottery tickets or play poker (or any other form of gambling.)

 

not trying to force my views on you, just trying to broaden yours so that your view doesn't paint a picture of me.

 

You're not lying.  You're just not typical.

 

 

Or perhaps your experience in the matter is simply limited to what you've read Shiloh?

 

I have had to study this issue and the stories about the lives destroyed by gambling are legion.  it rivals alcoholism.   And this thanks in part to the ease of online gambling/poker.  It may beat out porn addiction one day.

[GoldenEagle]

As to

So you still haven’t provided Scripture to support to support your position. You have told a lot of people they’re wrong. You have no close family or friends that have experience with gambling. All you have is what you’ve read. Interesting.

The example of pre-marital sex is not a good one either. Sex was made for the context of marriage. Sorry.

Lol. I find it funny that you’d say I haven’t yet developed a gambling habit and I am an addict. It is a bit insulting.

As to

Again brother by admission you have no personal experience with gambling.

Beating your wife is not a good comparison either to gambling. Clearly that violates many passages in Scripture where we’re taught to love one another. (John 13:34-35) And Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the Church. (See Eph 5)

 

 

That is a faulty line of reasoning and I have proven why.  The Bible doesn't list EVERY sin a person can possibly commit.  I don't  have to have chapter and verse to prove the sinfulness of something.  It's all in the fruit.

 

Appears to me like a desperate attempt at trying rationalize away your participation in a self-destructive activity. 

 

No, you're simply restating your position over and over again with this in red above. The Bible doesn't list every sin a person can commit. You provide no chapter or verse to even propose how you come to your conclusions. It's all about the fruit (none of which you've seen for yourself).

LadyC called out your straw-man argument as well...

 

and if i may, regarding the whole straw-man argument that the bible doesn't prohibit child molestation or wife beating.... that's not true at all. the bible is full of commands to not harm a child. it's full of commands to love your neighbor as yourself. it's full of commands for husbands and wives to treat one another with love, respect and compassion. physical abuse is directly contrary to those commands.

 

It appears you can't concede that your rationalization isn't sufficient to convince others of what the your view of gambling is in relation to Scripture.

 

I think the discussion may have become fruitless. Lol

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

 

Simply saying something in the Bible or diverting from the actual discussion at hand ( doesn’t necessarily improve your argument or convince others brother. At least provide your logic and a way for people to look at what the Scripture says that supports said logic to read for themselves.

 

I haven't diverted the discussion and I have shown why it is a sin.  I have provided my logic ad nauseum. 

 

 

Perhaps I missed it then. Sin is the transgreesion of the Word of God as I understand it. What part of the Word specifically is gamblign transgressing? What post number on this thread was it?

[Sheniy]

Casinos make money by making sure you over-indulge.  They are in the business of making sure people overindulge and lose proper judgment.

 So does McDonalds. Would you like to Super Size that, today?

Any business will do everything they can to make sure you spend more money. What you have is NOT ENOUGH. BUY MORE. You know, you really need a bigger house. And a faster, more something something car.  We'll take your money now, thanks.

Not exclusive to casinos, sorry.

 

 

Here you say gambling is a sin... Again. Just because it has the potential to harm doesn't make it a sin

Yes it does.

 

 

So...alcohol is a sin? Is shopping a sin? Is television a sin? Is the internet a sin?  All these things have a potential do harm.

These things may, at the worst, be unwise. Especially if we can't show restraint. That makes them a bad idea, not a sin.

I believe that sin isn't necessarily always a specific act, but the spirit by which we do it. If I'm drinking alcohol, that's not a sin, but if I'm only 15 years old and I've discovered my parents stash, I am acting out of disobedience and rebellion. That makes it a sin. If I'm spending $50 at a slot machine, it isn't a sin, but if I'm doing it because I'm too lazy to get a real job and I am looking for a way to get easy money, that makes it a sin. If I feel the Holy Spirit's conviction about going to see a certain movie, either due to the cost or the content, and I go anyway, that is a sin. The movie itself isn't sinful, and if I impose my conviction on my friend, that becomes legalism, which is plenty harmful.  Throwing a stone isn't sinful, unless I'm pridefully aiming for the speck in my brother's eye...

 

  Since only God knows the spirit behind my actions, He really is the only one who can judge.

 

 

Just my two cents.

 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

Casinos make money by making sure you over-indulge.  They are in the business of making sure people overindulge and lose proper judgment.

 So does McDonalds. Would you like to Super Size that, today?

Any business will do everything they can to make sure you spend more money. What you have is NOT ENOUGH. BUY MORE. You know, you really need a bigger house. And a faster, more something something car.  We'll take your money now, thanks.

Not exclusive to casinos, sorry.

Not the same, though.   At McDonalds or any store, you are paying for goods and services and they naturally place ads and run specials and create new products to entice you to spend extra.  

 

In a casino, you are lured and hooked.  You are given free drinks, maybe a small cash stipend,  more drinks, free poker chips and they let you win a few times.  In casinos their is a concerted effort to bankrupt you, to get you to spend and spend and hook you 'till you're broke and you have nothing to show for it.  When you're out of money, your welcome has expired and they kick you to the curb.

 

 

 

Here you say gambling is a sin... Again. Just because it has the potential to harm doesn't make it a sin

Yes it does.

 

 

So...alcohol is a sin? Is shopping a sin? Is television a sin? Is the internet a sin?  All these things have a potential do harm.

 

In an of themselves, no.  But again, these are not really fair comparisons to gambling. 

 

I believe that sin isn't necessarily always a specific act, but the spirit by which we do it. If I'm drinking alcohol, that's not a sin, but if I'm only 15 years old and I've discovered my parents stash, I am acting out of disobedience and rebellion. That makes it a sin. If I'm spending $50 at a slot machine, it isn't a sin, but if I'm doing it because I'm too lazy to get a real job and I am looking for a way to get easy money, that makes it a sin. If I feel the Holy Spirit's conviction about going to see a certain movie, either due to the cost or the content, and I go anyway, that is a sin. The movie itself isn't sinful, and if I impose my conviction on my friend, that becomes legalism, which is plenty harmful.  Throwing a stone isn't sinful, unless I'm pridefully aiming for the speck in my brother's eye...

 

 

The problem is again, the invalid comparisons with gambling.  Gambling is rooted in the love for money.  That's the heart of it.  The love of money is the root of all evil.  When you go to a casino, there is a good chance the money you spend goes to support organized crime.  The crime syndicate in the United States is well known for its involvement with casinos.  As long as you are having fun, who cares, right?

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

Simply saying something in the Bible or diverting from the actual discussion at hand ( doesn’t necessarily improve your argument or convince others brother. At least provide your logic and a way for people to look at what the Scripture says that supports said logic to read for themselves.

 

I haven't diverted the discussion and I have shown why it is a sin.  I have provided my logic ad nauseum. 

 

 

Perhaps I missed it then. Sin is the transgreesion of the Word of God as I understand it. What part of the Word specifically is gamblign transgressing? What post number on this thread was it?

 

You know exactly what I mean.  I am not going to ride this merry-go-round with you, GE.  I have made my point, and you are still ignoring the points I made.  You can refute the points I made earlier. I have made them more than once to you. 

[Qnts2]

 

I have had to study this issue and the stories about the lives destroyed by gambling are legion.  it rivals alcoholism.   And this thanks in part to the ease of online gambling/poker.  It may beat out porn addiction one day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From my experience, when people write a story, or a research paper, it is almost always done to point out the worst scenario. I have yet to find a paper publishing the result of a statistical study to show that a larger percentage of people who engaged in some form of gambling, do so with no resulting addiction. So, by reading about the issue or the stories, almost all you will have to read is about the smaller percentage of gambler who develop a gambling problem. 

 

I was listening to a sermon in a church about the dangers of drinking. This church believed that Christians should never touch alcohol. The Pastor said that 1 in 4 or 5 people who drink will become alcoholics. That is a huge percent of people. Jewish people have the lowest incident of alcoholism of any other people group. It is very rare to find a person who is Jewish have a problem with alcoholism. So much so, that researches have been studying the Jewish people to try to find out why Jewish people have such an extremely low rate of alcoholism. It is not because Jewish people do not drink because they do. If nothing else, every Friday a glass of wine, and at the Passover seder, 4 glasses of wine. So, my conclusion from the Pastors sermon.... Gentiles have a much higher risk of alcoholism. If 1 in 4 who drink will end up an alcoholic, I would say whatever group he is a part of should not drink at all.  

 

For gambling, I have participated in some form of gambling since I was very very young. The dreidel game is a game of gambling. It was fun. I think I was 5 or 6 when my family went on a vacation in the Carribean Islands. Gambling was legal, and although the children could not go into the casino in the hotel, the hotel had some slot machines setup in the lobby area for kids. My father thought he would show us the heartbreak of gambling and losing by giving my sister and I each, $10 in quarters. That was a huge amount of money to us. We had our choice of how we could use our money. My sister put in a couple of quarters and won $18. She stopped there. I wasn't as smart. I played the machines periodically all week, and at the end of the week, I had $12.50. Well, my fathers best laid plans failed as we were both winners. As we left, my father commented to the hotel management how unbelievably lucky both of us kids were since we both won. The manager told my father that the slot machines in the lobby are setup in favor of the player, because they were the machines for minors.

 

Bingo is gambling. I play bingo about once in 10 years. About every 2 years, I happen to travel thru a place that has slot machines. Usually I don't stop but if I am staying in a hotel which has slots, I set aside money to play that I would not be upset if I lost it all. I play for fun, not to win, as I am prepared to lose and want my moneys worth of fun. If I go to Disney land, I have fun, but it costs more money then a full day of playing the slot machines. For me, it is not addictive, just a game.

 

I do know of one person who spent too much time and money gambling, but it was not to win. This was a lonely person who found the people who work in a casino got to know them by name very quickly, and were more then willing to talk, asking how they were doing and listening. Sharing stories and jokes, the whole time this person was gambling. This person became 'addicted' to the friendliness and companionship of casino employees. To get the companionship, all they had to do was be in the casino gambling. This person wasn't gambling to win money.                  

[Sheniy]

 

 

Casinos make money by making sure you over-indulge.  They are in the business of making sure people overindulge and lose proper judgment.

 So does McDonalds. Would you like to Super Size that, today?

Any business will do everything they can to make sure you spend more money. What you have is NOT ENOUGH. BUY MORE. You know, you really need a bigger house. And a faster, more something something car.  We'll take your money now, thanks.

Not exclusive to casinos, sorry.

 

Not the same, though.   At McDonalds or any store, you are paying for goods and services and they naturally place ads and run specials and create new products to entice you to spend extra.  

 

In a casino, you are lured and hooked.  You are given free drinks, maybe a small cash stipend,  more drinks, free poker chips and they let you win a few times.  In casinos their is a concerted effort to bankrupt you, to get you to spend and spend and hook you 'till you're broke and you have nothing to show for it.  When you're out of money, your welcome has expired and they kick you to the curb.

 

I think you're perception of casinos has been skewed by watching too many movies. lol

It's true that they'll happily take your money and they don't care if you can't afford it, but SO DOES EVERY OTHER BUSINESS. Responsibility for my finances falls on me and not them. If they convince me to part with my house payment, well, that makes me the sucker, doesn't it. Doesn't matter if that money is going into slot machines or buying that sweet car I can't afford.

As others have clearly explained, casinos and the lottery provide entertainment. That's a service, like an arcade or a movie theater. Most play for the thrill of the win and not the actual prize.

 

 

So...alcohol is a sin? Is shopping a sin? Is television a sin? Is the internet a sin?  All these things have a potential do harm.

In an of themselves, no.  But again, these are not really fair comparisons to gambling. 

I believe that sin isn't necessarily always a specific act, but the spirit by which we do it. If I'm drinking alcohol, that's not a sin, but if I'm only 15 years old and I've discovered my parents stash, I am acting out of disobedience and rebellion. That makes it a sin. If I'm spending $50 at a slot machine, it isn't a sin, but if I'm doing it because I'm too lazy to get a real job and I am looking for a way to get easy money, that makes it a sin. If I feel the Holy Spirit's conviction about going to see a certain movie, either due to the cost or the content, and I go anyway, that is a sin. The movie itself isn't sinful, and if I impose my conviction on my friend, that becomes legalism, which is plenty harmful.  Throwing a stone isn't sinful, unless I'm pridefully aiming for the speck in my brother's eye...

 

The problem is again, the invalid comparisons with gambling.  Gambling is rooted in the love for money.  That's the heart of it.  The love of money is the root of all evil.  When you go to a casino, there is a good chance the money you spend goes to support organized crime.  The crime syndicate in the United States is well known for its involvement with casinos.  As long as you are having fun, who cares, right?

 

 

Crime syndicate?  Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.  Others have evidence of the opposite, and you just ignore it.  You expect them to take this seriously?

 

I'm employed at my job for the sole purpose of making money.  I don't do it for fun or any other reason.  Does that mean I'm sinning by going to work?

 

But others who visit casinos for fun are sinning because they might make some cash?

 

Doesn't make sense, Shiloh.

 

 

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

I think you're perception of casinos has been skewed by watching too many movies. lol

 

I have had to minister to some really messed up people.  I have seen the kind of brokenness that gambling causes.  No one goes into it thinking they will be destroyed by it.  It's just a guilty pleasure and it just escalates and gets out of control.  I have heard testimonies of what happens in casinos and how they rig everything to get you hooked.  It's reality and it's something you just don't understand.

 

It's true that they'll happily take your money and they don't care if you can't afford it, but SO DOES EVERY OTHER BUSINESS.

 

Casinos are a whole different ball of wax.  They do everything they know will hook people and keep them coming back.  They intend to make it an obsession for anyone they can.   Sometimes, people beat the odds, but most of the time, they don't.  You really don't know what you're talking about.

 

Responsibility for my finances falls on me and not them. If they convince me to part with my house payment, well, that makes me the sucker, doesn't it. Doesn't matter if that money is going into slot machines or buying that sweet car I can't afford.

 

In a casino they give you free drinks, they make sure you drink just enough to have impaired judgment but not enough that you're falling down drunk.  They want you to impulse spend.  They will get your money; count on it. 

 

As others have clearly explained, casinos and the lottery provide entertainment. That's a service, like an arcade or a movie theater. Most play for the thrill of the win and not the actual prize.

 

Yes, they provide entertainment. That's the allurement of the whole thing. And you can get a top notch meal, listen to live entertainment, get free drink (alcohol) refills and they keep'em coming.  They give you a line of credit, some free chips to play with and they get you all fattened up for the kill and you have no idea what is about to happen to you.  Once they have enough free margaritas or martinis or whatever in your system, your spending and spending and spending...   'till the money runs out and they have no use for you anymore and you find out you don't have enough money to home on.

 

Crime syndicate?  Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.  Others have evidence of the opposite, and you just ignore it.  You expect them to take this seriously?

 

Nope.  Organized crime has always been associated with casinos and gambling.  Today, that just isn't something anyone talks about.

 

Another Crime Issue Associated with Gambling is Street Crime. U.S. News and World Report did a comparison of crime rates in cities with gambling versus those that do not. The crime rates were significantly higher in the places that allowed gambling.¹⁸ Industry researchers dispute the view that cities with gambling have higher crime rates and assert that the rates aren't higher when the tourist population is considered.¹⁹ The article failed to consider that these cities are vacation destinations and their population is swollen by the influx of tourists.

Atlantic City showed a jump in crime when gambling was legalized. The city went from 50th in the nation in per capita crime to first.²⁰ But when the number of tourists are taken into account, Atlantic City doesn't appear to have a crime rate that is much different from other cities.

In Deadwood, there were significant increases in crime and violence when gambling was legalized.²¹ The researcher acknowledges that the influx of people may be the cause. Another possible cause is the boom-town atmosphere.  https://www.library.ca.gov/CRB/97/03/Chapt11.html

 

I'm employed at my job for the sole purpose of making money.  I don't do it for fun or any other reason.  Does that mean I'm sinning by going to work?

 

There is a difference between needing to earn money to make living and what the Bible calls "the love of money" which is what gambling is all about.   I would think that would go without saying .  What a ridiculous and rather foolish question to ask.

 

But others who visit casinos for fun are sinning because they might make some cash?

 

Doesn't make sense, Shiloh.

 

I sin no longer sin when we have what we think are innocent motives???   Sorry but you are trying rationalize away sin.