The 5th Beast Of Daniel

[Salty]

Hi Paradox,

 

You have hit the nail right on the head as to the error of trying to fit the great image & the 4 beasts together. They are not the same & this has been the great misunderstanding for years. The Great Image as we know has 5 body parts & represents the 5 Gentile World Rulers. The `4 beasts,` however are but Super Powers not World Rulers. When you see the difference then what is happening in the world falls in to place.

 

I don't think he has understand that idea, which is partly what he is asking.

 

The beast statue part of the feet of ten toes does relate to the idea a beast kingdom, just as the other pieces do also. It's not a 'world ruler' with ten toes that is partly strong and partly broken. Even in Dan.2:41 we are told the feet of ten toes is about a "kingdom".

[Marilyn C]

Salty,

 

`World Ruler,` refers to the person (ruler) & the kingdom (ruler). 

 

See Dan. 2: 37 - 39 where God refers to the king as ruler & the kingdoms ruling also.

[Paradox]

I'll just paint a picture how I see it, from the three visions in Daniel.

 

The head of gold, lion,

The arms of silver, bear, ram

The thighs of brass, the leopard with four heads, the goat with four horns

The legs of iron, the diverse beast, the little horn that grew "exceedingly great"

The feet of iron and clay, the ten horns, the continued little horn until the end

The kingdom of Christ, same for all three visions

 

In Revelation the beasts follow this order, taking up the beasts where Daniel left off.

The 1260 years of persecution by Papacy, Rev 12 and 13:1, 

The rise of America 13:11 and the beginning of communism by revolutionary France Rev 11:7

Communism goes global while it disappears, the beast that "was, and is not, and yet is" Rev 17:8 ?

 

The beasts in bold lettering total 8 in all, and "the eighth" is "of the seven" Rev 17:11

 

This simple counting identifies each beast as it appears in history.

 

What about the red dragon? He's not called a beast, but Satan, with seven kingdoms or attempts at ruling the world.

 

So Salty, you are right about a 5th beast.

 

At the time of the last beast, "five are fallen, one is the other is not yet come" Rev 17:10

 

The Papal beast has long fallen, America is, and whatever "is to come" may not be a kingdom but a global movement?

 

The text "is of the seven" could mean composed of all kingdoms? See 17:15. nations - plural. As in 11:18.

[ARGOSY]

To all. 

 

I regard Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 as matching prophecies.  They both in context and history are a clear reference to four consecutive kingdoms:

Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome

 

Rome has 3 stages in Daniel 2:    Rome... divided Rome (2 feet)..... ten toes Rome

This 3 stage Rome is also reflected in Revelation 17 .... 5 were and one is (Rome was in power when the verse said "one is")

6th empire Rome....7th empire (divided Rome)....... 8th empire= ten horn beast

 

Daniel 7 however just lists the two stages of Rome:

Rome......then little horn/ten horns

 

Whichever way we look at it, the fourth kingdom is Rome (Western Europe), which is the superpower behind the rise of the ten-horned beast. This final beast is an extension of Western Europe's power. 

[ARGOSY]

This is what is happening in the Middle East at the moment. Europe is using the Arab Spring to weaken enemy countries and to strengthen allies in the Middle East. And Europe is using the USA to weaken enemies as well. End result is Europe will assist Turkey to establish the rise of the Israeli antichrist in a ten nation Turkish Union.

 

This EU/Turkish Union alliance is the repairing of the deadly wound when Rome split into Papal Rome and the Byzantium Empire. (one of the heads has a deadly wound, the splitting of the 6th head)

[Paradox]

Inchrist,

 

Going by what Argosy said about the wounded head, which head in your model had the wound?

[Salty]

Salty,

 

`World Ruler,` refers to the person (ruler) & the kingdom (ruler). 

 

See Dan. 2: 37 - 39 where God refers to the king as ruler & the kingdoms ruling also.

 

But in one of your lists above (post #9) you set the feet of ten toes (one of the 5 pieces of the statue) as a "World Ruler", trying to separate the idea of the Daniel 'beasts' between a ruler (like Neb) and super-powers (i.e., just powerful nations).

 

In reality, the beast term is applied to both the subject of the 5 pieces of the statue of Dan.2 and the animal symbols in Rev.7. Even in Dan.4 & 5 the beast idea is directly applied to Nebuchadnezzar. It is the same in Revelation 13 & 17, the word beast applied both to a kingdom, and to a king. So of course they both go together, which appears to be a point your suggestion about super powers tries to get away from.

 

You said:

"The Great Image as we know has 5 body parts & represents the 5 Gentile World Rulers.The `4 beasts,` however are but Super Powers not World Rulers. "

 

 

Dan 2:41-42

41    And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

42    And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

(KJV)

 

 

The beast of ten toes involves the ten horned beast kingdom of Dan.7. This is why Jesus connected the Dan.7 animal symbols in Rev.13:2 when presenting the ten horned beast kingdom of Rev.13:1.

 

Rev 13:1-2

1    And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2    And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

(KJV)

 

 

In the following Dan.7:7-8 Scripture is where Christ was pulling from in showing John about the ten horn, seven head, ten crown beast kingdom of Rev.13:1. But He INCLUDED the "leopard", "bear", and "lion" symbols of the previous Dan.7 verses also when pointing to that ten horned beast kingdom.

Dan 7:7-8

7    After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

8    I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

(KJV)

 

 

However, in Dan.7:17, Daniel is told these four beasts are "four kings, which shall arise out of the earth."

 

Dan 7:17

17    These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

(KJV)

 

Not "Super-Powers", but "four kings".

 

 

What John was shown with the Rev.13:1 beast was how it "was like" the "leopard", "bear", and "lion". It's because it directly connects Dan.2 about the 5 pieces of the beast statue, for as written there the whole of it is to come tumbling down "together" when Christ smites it upon its feet of ten toes. What does that signify involving the beast animal symbols of Dan.7?

 

It signifies how a revival of all the previous beast kingdoms of Daniel will be co-joined with the beast of ten toes, but subordinate to it. Like a revival of the previous beast kingdoms (and kings). That would mean 'your' Babylon idea, but on a smaller scale, being under the power of the 5th beast of ten toes. It also means the Roman empire, and the Macedonian empire, etc., all under the final beast of ten toes. It is essentially about the "one world government" system of our near future, with the whole world divided up among those ten kings (ten toes).

[Marilyn C]

Well Salty,

 

I will await & watch for the reviving of the Babylon Empire of Neb. the Medes & Persian Empire & the Greecian Empire & the Roman Empire. Please tell me when you see it, & then I can tell you that you interpreted correctly.

 

PS. I`m not holding my breath though.  And just trying to be friendly there Salty.

[Paradox]

 

Inchrist,

 

Going by what Argosy said about the wounded head, which head in your model had the wound?

 

The 3rd Kingdom in my list the Babylonian kingdom

 

So the second beast in Revelation 13 is Media Persia?

 

How come this first beast of Rev 13 has the features of the lion, bear and leopard? These are kingdoms after Babylon as well. 

 

Dan 8:20 -22. The angel says that the ram and goat are Persia and Greece. These correspond to the bear and the leopard.

 

I have many questions, pardon me,

 

The wound is healed though isn't it?

 

It can't be literal Babylon because God said Babylon will be destroyed and never be inhabited again. Isa 14:22-27 13:19-22. Jer 8:15-18. Just a few to start with.

 

The only thing left of Babylon is its descendants the Assyrians. Healed? I doubt it very much.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Paradox

[Paradox]

To qualify as a head of the dragon Rev 12, the kingdom has to be a major player in either world politics or religion.

 

So far as world power is concerned the Assyrians today are equivalent to graffiti artists with guns.

 

The wound may well apply to ancient Babylon, but scripture does not agree with its healing.

 

But if another power exists in symbol as Babylon, which one there certainly is, then the wound and healing may apply to it, as it certainly does.