Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Spock

Revelation 13

461 posts in this topic

I would love for us to discuss any part of this awesome chapter. I will copy it in its entirety and then anyone can reference any section they want to discuss.

1 Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, and on its horns were ten diadem crowns, and on its heads a blasphemous name.

2 Now the beast that I saw was like a leopard, but its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. The dragon gave the beast his power, his throne, and great authority to rule.

3 One of the beast's heads appeared to have been killed, but the lethal wound had been healed. And the whole world followed the beast in amazement;

4 they worshiped the dragon because he had given ruling authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast too, saying: "Who is like the beast?" and "Who is able to make war against him?"

5 The beast was given a mouth speaking proud words and blasphemies, and he was permitted to exercise ruling authority for forty-two months.

6 So the beast opened his mouth to blaspheme against God - to blaspheme both his name and his dwelling place, that is, those who dwell in heaven.

7 The beast was permitted to go to war against the saints and conquer them. He was given ruling authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation,

8 and all those who live on the earth will worship the beast, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life belonging to the Lamb who was killed.

9 If anyone has an ear, he had better listen!

10 If anyone is meant for captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed by the sword, then by the sword he must be killed. This requires steadfast endurance and faith from the saints.

11 Then I saw another beast coming up from the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but was speaking like a dragon.

12 He exercised all the ruling authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and those who inhabit it worship the first beast, the one whose lethal wound had been healed.

13 He performed momentous signs, even making fire come down from heaven in front of people

14 and, by the signs he was permitted to perform on behalf of the beast, he deceived those who live on the earth. He told those who live on the earth to make an image to the beast who had been wounded by the sword, but still lived.

15 The second beast was empowered to give life to the image of the first beast so that it could speak, and could cause all those who did not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

16 He also caused everyone (small and great, rich and poor, free and slave) to obtain a mark on their right hand or on their forehead.

17 Thus no one was allowed to buy or sell things unless he bore the mark of the beast - that is, his name or his number.

18 This calls for wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the beast's number, for it is man's number, and his number is 666.

Wow, what an unbelievable chapter. I wish I could understand fully every single word, but I love how The Lord makes it so that we have to go deep to understand his word, not just gloss over it. All praise, honor, and glory to the King of Kings for his blessed and holy word. May we do justice in love in our discussion.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will start. Let's look at verse 3 and verse 14

Verse 3 says "one of the beasts HEAD appears to have been killed, but the lethal wound was healed. ".

Vocabulary first. Beast one = antichrist; Beast two = false prophet

Spock thinks: this cannot mean the antichrist was shot in the head and killed. Why do I say this? Because unless the antichrist has more than one head, which is unlikely, it is not referencing a physical body with a head. (Spock, I love when you are so logical like this. Any more?)

Verse 14: " make an image to the beast who had been wounded by the SWORD...."

Spock thinks: hmmmm, this is very interesting. Let's compare this verse with verse 3 above. VERSE 3 says one of the heads was wounded. Here in verse 14, the beast was wounded by the sword. Are they talking about the same thing? I don't think so. You usually don't get a head wound by a sword. Usually you get shot in the head with a bullet, not a sword.

So, what do I make of verse 14? I can't be dogmatic here but it appears someone did try to assassinate the antichrist and failed, much like the attempt on Hitler. In this case, someone tried with a sword, or long knife I presume.

Conclusion: based on just this chapter alone, I don't think anyone can say the antichrist rose from the dead, like our Savior Lord Jesus. It does appear he was wounded but not killed.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To sum it up in a few words........    I'm going to throw you under the bus.....   but I'll make it up to you later...

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Spock,

 

So glad you started this topic. I`m sure the Holy spirit will bring much to light as we speak with the right attitude, as you said. Do like your humour & working through the topic. It gives us all a good laugh for the day. So looking at the `head.` I believe as you do that that is symbolic. And I also know that it is not for me to speculate so I look further, (deeper as you said) into God`s word & He has explained it.

 

`Here is need for a discerning mind. These 7 heads are 7 hills; upon which the woman sits enthroned. They are also 7 kings; 5 have fallen already, one is reigning now; the last has not yet come yet, but when he does, his reign will be a short one.` (Rev. 17: 9 & 10  Knox)

 

I`ll do a time line to help us understand this.

 

 

1..........2..........3.........4..........5......(fallen/gone) (Trib) 6.......7 Anti-Christ........(3 1/2 yrs)

.

 

These `7 heads,` are 7 kings or rulers that rule the Global Government consecutively, one at a time. The 7th head/leader is the Anti-Christ & he is wounded - as if mortally wounded - `as if ` showing us that it is trickery, deception. Thus v. 3 & v. 12 concerning the beast whose deadly wound was healed is I believe speaking of the same beastly person who rules over the beastly government.

 

If for example we take 1. Obama.(USA)  2. David Cameron. (UK) 3...........4.........5......(Trib)6.........7.Anti-Christ,

 

as being leaders of the G7 & G20 which are over the world we can get a good example of what this scripture shows us.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To sum it up in a few words........    I'm going to throw you under the bus.....   but I'll make it up to you later...

My students call me "Superman," so being under a bus should be no problem for me to discard.

Bring it big guy!

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yo Marilyn, (Said in a Rocky voice)

When it says 5 are fallen, do you not see that as past tense from the author John in this case. Five kings previous from 95AD have fallen.

If not, let me come inside your brain to see why not.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yo Spockster,

It looks like you might need a little help with this, so I've come to lend a hand (or fingers). Hang on, here we go.......

Revelation 17:1-18
And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Wow, I bit off a pretty big chunk and now I can't chew! But it gives you some other things to consider.


Cheers

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll break it down the way I understand this mystery. 

Revelation 17:

And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

 

This sure resembles the Roman Catholic Church.  Cardinals wear scarlet colored robes and Bishops wear purple and they drink from a golden cup with many jewels. Take a look for yourself: https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEVjXZLZFTJRkAhMgPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTBsa3ZzMnBvBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--?_adv_prop=image&fr=yhs-att-att_001&va=woman+arrayed+in+scarlet+%26+purple&hspart=att&hsimp=yhs-att_001

 

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

 

Again, this looks like the Roman Catholic Church.  The Roman's crucified, made sport of and burned many Christians at the stake.  The RCC was the modern Babylon, in that both of these kingdom's (Babylon & Rome) destroyed the Temple and carried off the golden vessels and artifacts back to their homelands.

 

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

 

The beast that was and is not is Babel.  Nimrod tried to have a global government way before it was time, so God destroyed this kingdom, scattered the people and confused their language. 

 

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

 

Rome sits on seven hills as well.

 

 

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

In John's day, five kingdoms had fallen, the one that was at that time was Rome (sixth).  There were two beasts before Daniel's time, Assyria and Egypt.

The Romans have now expanded westward and now includes America, Britain and the EU.  This three headed beast also includes the UN, which was designed to create a global government (Babel).

 

1 Assyria

2 Egypt

3 Babylon

4 Media/Persia

5 Greece

6 Roman Empire & Holy Roman Empire

7 & 8 Revived Roman Empire will devour the entire earth (Babel) & Holy Roman Empire (Papacy)

 

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

 

I'm not sure how long an hour is here, but it will be a short time and within the final 42 months the beast will reign.  These ten kings will rule when the world is divided up into ten regions.

 

14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

 

God will gather all nations to fight against Jerusalem (Armageddon).

 

15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

 

The RCC has spread to many continents of the world, but Rome will always be her headquarters. 

 

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

 

 

Cheers

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

To sum it up in a few words........    I'm going to throw you under the bus.....   but I'll make it up to you later...

My students call me "Superman," so being under a bus should be no problem for me to discard.

Bring it big guy!

 

most people are so concerned about the tires that they forget about the drive shaft.....   don't forget to watch for that.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thunder,

Hard to argue your interpretation because it can be supported.

The RCC connection makes sense, being scarlet and on seven hills. I don't see Islam as the woman hopping on the back of the beast, more than I see the RCC.

As for the 8 kingdoms. Hard to argue against the first 6, with Rome being number 6. (I think my new friend Marilyn might want to chime in with something different, so I will be looking forward to that.)

I guess it gets fun speculating on 7 and 8.

Number 8 is the Beast (antichrist) so it appears there will be 10 something making up the beasts power base for one hour (short time).

Number 7 I guess is the revised Roman Empire which I suppose includes America. I think some people believe the 8th kingdom is the revised Roman Empire, but I guess it doesn't make that much of a difference. I see you have 7 and 8 basically as the same too.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0