098 Posted July 24, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 12 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/24/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 24, 2014 Thanks for your question. The Holy Spirit never leaves the true believer, but in the congregations Satan reigns during the tribulation period. That is why 2 Thes 2:4 talks about Satan taking his seat in the temple of God and proclaims that he is God in the sense that he has authority there. The true believers who continue to have the Holy Spirit are rejected by the congregations. That is why the church at Philadelphia was comforted by God telling them they shall go out no more, because they have gone out of the congregations during the tribulation period. That is why Revelation 18 says that the true believers must come out of fallen Babylon, the great city, the congregations. Remember in 2 Thes 2:7 the one that restrains sin (that's the Holy Spirit) will be taken away from the congregations. It can never be taken away from the true believers. Consider how Joshua and his men marched around Jericho. Joshua is a picture of Christ, and his men of the true believers. They were not a part of Jericho that fell. Jericho had been the city of righteousness (city of palms) and it had formerly had salvation (walls). But the walls fall and salvation is not present there afterwards. Only Joshua (Jesus) and his own have salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted July 24, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,312 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 28,064 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 24, 2014 According to Father Malachi Martin there were several Cardinals that held a dual blood sacrifice rituals linked between a small chapel at the vatican and in Charleston NC that enthroned Satan as head of the Catholic church in 1963. I have heard one other priest who agreed with him. I was once acquainted with a person who lived with him for many many years who also told me that that person was convinced the Malachi believed that it happened. He wrote a book about it and published it as a novel, but several times on interviews and personally to me on the phone said the book was all true except for the names of the people. Most people who knew him that I've heard speak did not believe he died of natural causes. He was about to publish another book as pure non fiction with names and dates just before he was killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted July 27, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2014 According to Father Malachi Martin there were several Cardinals that held a dual blood sacrifice rituals linked between a small chapel at the vatican and in Charleston NC that enthroned Satan as head of the Catholic church in 1963. I have heard one other priest who agreed with him. I was once acquainted with a person who lived with him for many many years who also told me that that person was convinced the Malachi believed that it happened. He wrote a book about it and published it as a novel, but several times on interviews and personally to me on the phone said the book was all true except for the names of the people. Most people who knew him that I've heard speak did not believe he died of natural causes. He was about to publish another book as pure non fiction with names and dates just before he was killed. No mystery that the Catholic Church has the crept in unawares in it too, just as all religious factions do, including Christianity and Judaism. Have you not read Judges 2 & 3 where God told Israel because of falling away to idols that He would leave the pagan Canaanites to dwell among them, to see if His people would follow Him or not? That is still in effect upon God's people today. But do all branches of the Catholic and Protestant Churches have that problem of the crept in unawares? I would say most, but not all. It depends on Who and what they follow. Judaism is a different matter, because the crept in unawares never left it and have only gained more power over the deceived brethren of Judah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
098 Posted July 28, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 12 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/24/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 28, 2014 The important thing in reading the Bible is to think of it as presenting salvation for persons from all nations and tongues and races and so forth. Conversely, those who do not receive the gospel are an equally diverse group. Most all "Christian" congregations and denominations have doctrinal errors to say nothing of spiritual errors. Non-Christian religions do too. However, the Bible does not get so tied up and restricted as to assign political groups or religious groups special status. When the Bible says in Romans 11, "And so all Israel shall be saved" it means that all true believers will be saved. It is not talking about the political nation of Israel. It is talking about spiritual Israel, the true believers from all walks of life. Personally, I don't feel at one with any of the groups you mention, but I hope to still be a part of the group of saved persons that God knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted July 28, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 28, 2014 The important thing in reading the Bible is to think of it as presenting salvation for persons from all nations and tongues and races and so forth. Conversely, those who do not receive the gospel are an equally diverse group. Most all "Christian" congregations and denominations have doctrinal errors to say nothing of spiritual errors. Non-Christian religions do too. However, the Bible does not get so tied up and restricted as to assign political groups or religious groups special status. When the Bible says in Romans 11, "And so all Israel shall be saved" it means that all true believers will be saved. It is not talking about the political nation of Israel. It is talking about spiritual Israel, the true believers from all walks of life. Personally, I don't feel at one with any of the groups you mention, but I hope to still be a part of the group of saved persons that God knows. If this was directed at me, I wasn't talking about any specific political group or nation either, just in case you meant this for me. But I will say this, what Paul said in Romans 11 about all Israel being saved is not about the spiritual Israel concept, it is about the literal seed of Israel. Even after Christ's return, Israel is to be a specific people unto God still, with believing Gentiles inheriting with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
098 Posted July 28, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 12 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/24/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 28, 2014 Yes, it is easy to read Romans 11 the way you say, and definitely many read it as you do. However, I invite you to look at the word "so" in verse 26: "And so all Israel will be saved". So does not mean what people read into it: And then all Israel will be saved. Rather, "so' means 'in this manner' or 'in this way'. In this manner all Israel will be saved. Simply refer to the preceeding verse to find out in what way. Verse 25 says ..."blindness in part is happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in". And that's where it ends. Nothing else happening. In other words, some of the political nation of Israel, the physical Jews, will be saved, like, for instance, the apostle Paul. The rest are not saved but blinded right up as the remaining Gentiles to be saved are to be saved. And that's it. Nothing more. And so (in this manner) will all Israel (spiritual Israel) be saved. The following verse even tells us that Jesus will come from heaven to turn sin from Jacob (the true believers by metaphor) according to the covenant he has with believers (his work on the cross and so forth). Just as he did to take away believers' sins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted July 28, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 28, 2014 Yes, it is easy to read Romans 11 the way you say, and definitely many read it as you do. However, I invite you to look at the word "so" in verse 26: "And so all Israel will be saved". So does not mean what people read into it: And then all Israel will be saved. Rather, "so' means 'in this manner' or 'in this way'. In this manner all Israel will be saved. Simply refer to the preceeding verse to find out in what way. Verse 25 says ..."blindness in part is happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in". And that's where it ends. Nothing else happening. In other words, some of the political nation of Israel, the physical Jews, will be saved, like, for instance, the apostle Paul. The rest are not saved but blinded right up as the remaining Gentiles to be saved are to be saved. And that's it. Nothing more. And so (in this manner) will all Israel (spiritual Israel) be saved. The following verse even tells us that Jesus will come from heaven to turn sin from Jacob (the true believers by metaphor) according to the covenant he has with believers (his work on the cross and so forth). Just as he did to take away believers' sins. You say one thing, and then seem to say another. Those of the seed of Israel are saved the same way believing Gentiles are, by Faith on The Father through His Son Jesus Christ. Paul covered the point that IF they don't remain in unbelief... which that is the pivot point for them to be saved. See Zech. 12 (I think). Many of the unbelieving Jews will mourn for Christ Jesus when He appears. It's also linked to Jesus' parable in Luke 23... Luke 23:27-30 27 And there followed Him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented Him. 28 But Jesus turning unto them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. 29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.' 30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us'; and to the hills, 'Cover us'." That underlined part is about the unbelieving Jews that will be ashamed when Christ appears, once it's revealed what they did against Him. Then they shall say that, "Blessed are the barren..." from Isaiah 54, which is about those of Christ's servants that remained Faithful to Him to the end. Those deceived will be saying that, "Fall on us", and "Cover us" also, out of shame. I see those as being those of Israel that truly do love The LORD, and had all intention of following Him and believing on Messiah, but rejected Jesus of Nazareth as The Promised Messiah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
098 Posted July 28, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 12 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/24/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 28, 2014 Yes, that's the point of Romans 11. Exactly as you say, both Jews and non-Jews are saved through faith in Jesus Christ. That's what the chapter is about and it's entire point. What is doesn't actually go on to say is that then there is this special time later when all of political Israel suddenly is saved. People mistakenly get this notion from thinking that the word so means "then", when it really means in this manner. Both Jews and non-Jews are saved through faith in Jesus Christ. That's his covenant with all believers, though it is only a part of each of the two groups, Jews and non-Jews who are saved of course. There is no difference between the two groups in any way when God's salvation plan is seen. The verses from Luke 23 are typical of all verses in the Bible which talk of the fall of the congregations towards the end times. Daughters of Jerusalem does not mean political or cultural Jews. Jerusalem is a parable word for all persons in the congregations at that time. The people are saying to the Lord cover us. In other words they want Jesus to cover their sins. Mountains in the Bible are used to describe the Lord himself . Let those who are in Judaea flee to the mountains. As the mountains surround Jerusalem so the Lord surrounds his people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted July 29, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 29, 2014 Yes, that's the point of Romans 11. Exactly as you say, both Jews and non-Jews are saved through faith in Jesus Christ. That's what the chapter is about and it's entire point. What is doesn't actually go on to say is that then there is this special time later when all of political Israel suddenly is saved. People mistakenly get this notion from thinking that the word so means "then", when it really means in this manner. Both Jews and non-Jews are saved through faith in Jesus Christ. That's his covenant with all believers, though it is only a part of each of the two groups, Jews and non-Jews who are saved of course. There is no difference between the two groups in any way when God's salvation plan is seen. The verses from Luke 23 are typical of all verses in the Bible which talk of the fall of the congregations towards the end times. Daughters of Jerusalem does not mean political or cultural Jews. Jerusalem is a parable word for all persons in the congregations at that time. The people are saying to the Lord cover us. In other words they want Jesus to cover their sins. Mountains in the Bible are used to describe the Lord himself . Let those who are in Judaea flee to the mountains. As the mountains surround Jerusalem so the Lord surrounds his people. I think you might want to read that parable in Luke 23 again, and this time in relation to Isaiah 54, instead of guessing, for your interpretation of it does not align with the Scripture. It's one of those Bible 'metaphors' that God uses to teach with so as to make it more simple, not more difficult like you're trying to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted July 30, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 272 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,295 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,555 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Where does it say that the people of Israel receive the antichrist as their king? Just wondering where this thinking comes from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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