Revelation 13

[Defending the Name]

If you believe you have to die, you will surely get left behind when Jesus comes for His Bride. Why? Simply because you have NO FAITH to be caught up into the air and changed into your resurrection body. He is coming for those WATCHING for His coming. that watching includes BELIEVING in His coming. Since you don't, then you don't qualify to escape what is coming. That escape clause is found in Luke 21:36. Since you won't be found worthy to escape, not believing in God's escape plan, you will be left behind to face the Beast. Good luck with that, for God has already said you will be overcome and lose your head. Well, isn't that where your faith is?

LAMAD

So we are to be found worthy to escape suffering and tribulation? Doesn't that run contrary to God's word?

Calling the 70th week, seven years of wrath, skews your thinking. What support do you have for claiming there will be seven years of wrath before Christ returns? I see a sixth seal rapture, as I believe you do, but not until after the midpoint of the 70th week, after the saints have endured persecution.

I don't think the term "escape" in Luke 21:36 is a reference to the rapture alone.

“Be on guard, so that your hearts will not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day will not come on you suddenly like a trap; for it will come upon all those who dwell on the face of all the earth. But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.” Luke 21:34-36

The trap that's coming for those who aren't alert but weighed down with worldliness is the deception of the false prophet. By praying and watching we are strengthened to resist his rule and give our lives for Christ. By doing so, we are worthy to escape the wrath that is to follow. Those who are alive and remain are caught up, and likewise escape the wrath to come. What is to be escaped is God's wrath. It is escaped by martyrdom first and then by rapture for those that remain....as I see it.

I see Luke 21:34-36 as Jacob's trouble, where the Jewish nation was surrounded by the armies, that would soon within the first century generation, bring destruction to Jerusalem, in 70AD.

This message is to the first century Jewish generation as it states: "for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon THIS PEOPLE."

"THIS PEOPLE" are Jews of those times as it is related to Judea's impending destruction. This is Jacob's trouble.

The verse below describes how the Jews after Jacob's trouble of 70AD are killed or taken captive. John who wrote Revelation was taken captive on the island of Patmos at this time, which was a Roman slave/labour colony. He secretly coded this event In Revelation as "BABYLON HAS FALLEN". The result of 70AD resulted in the diaspora of the Jews being spread into all the nations of the world.

Luke 21:24

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

The 70AD must have had some cosmic event that caused the waves of the oceans to roar like a tsunami. People of that time, due to these cosmic events thought that the world was coming to an end and so their hearts would be full of fear. The cosmic event must have been world wide, to have all nations unsettled in the way that brought them to fight to the bitter end with each other, as if nothing else mattered and that all was lost, as the spirit of impending doom was on everyone's heart,

Luke 21:25-26

And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Redemption came for the faithful who were taken, meaning they died. This is not a rapture as in pardoning from tribulation, but rather in Luke 21:24 only two options are presented in regard to some that will 1) fall by the edge of the sword, and other that 2) shall be led away captive into all nations. The ones taken away are no longer living amongst the living because they are killed, so in that respect their time is up and they are presented before the Son of Man who comes for them in a cloud (holy ones) with power and great glory.

Luke 21:27

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Looking up is what one does from a Jewish perspective and belief when they are ready to depart from this earthly life. If you recall in Acts 7:55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, LOOKED UP to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.

Luke 21:28

And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

SO LOOKING UP was a Jewish custom when they were ready to depart from this earthly life.

What happens when a fig tree shoots forth? It means that the fruit is ready for the picking, meaning they are taken away from the tree during the time of the harvest that is typically in summer. So one is left still remaining in their earthly body and the other taken, meaning harvested, which implies that the taken is no longer living in their earthly body but have died, in order to be taken as part of the great harvest of God.

Luke 21:29-30

And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

The central theme of Christianity is to be faithful onto death, there is no escape from death. This is the bitter cup of Christ that all faithful must drink from. The faithful within the condition of the blood covenant as witnesses need to sign of from this earthly realms with their own blood, otherwise, "where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth." (Hebrews 9:16-17).

Edited September 17, 2014 by Defending the Name

[Defending the Name]

The main reason why so many people in Europe lost faith in God is because they thought that somehow because they were Christians, that they would be pardoned from tribulation and much sorrow, yet it quickly dawned on them, much to their shock and horror that they were dying and had experienced horrendous events, that led then to doubt God's existence.

It is this false teaching of being raptured and pardoned from tribulations / adversities in life, that has led many once devote Christians to throw in the towel so to speak to the devil and give up the fight and to join the ranks of the fallen of the world.

This is why I preach what is the central theme to Christianity and that is to die in the name of The Lord, having kept the faith to the very end. We as Christians are to expect the worst that the world has to throw at us. If we don't then we are living a lie. The truth be told that we are here as sheep amongst the wolves and what happens to the sheep is that they are brought before the world for slaughter.

The rally is to die in The Lord as martyrs and be counted worthy of his Christ's election and to NOT plant false hopes in people's minds of some RAPTURE OR pardoning from tribulations. Christians are head deep in tribulation today, as I write.

Why do you people want to escape, just be prepared to die in The Lord and believe me you will not be left disappointed like the many Europeans who went through both world wars.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Defending the Name

[iamlamad]

Defending the name wrote;

I see Luke 21:34-36 as Jacob's trouble, where the Jewish nation was surrounded by the armies, that would soon within the first century generation, bring destruction to Jerusalem, in 70AD.

This message is to the first century Jewish generation as it states: "for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon THIS PEOPLE."

"THIS PEOPLE" are Jews of those times as it is related to Judea's impending destruction. This is Jacob's trouble.

 

You see, you just get started and already are in conflict with MUCH of today's church doctrine. I am convinced that Luke 21 is the very same discourse as Matthew 24, just each writer remembered different parts of it. I know that preterists think that most of what Jesus said then happened in 70 AD. they also say that most of Revelation is history also. In saying that, they show how utterly silly their doctrine is. They cannot point to specific event in history for any of the trumpet judgments. If it is history, then SHOW US WHEN some of these events happened.

 

Sorry, but I don't by your theory. Antoichus Epiphanes shows us what an abomination in the temple is, by sacrificing a pig on the altar and then setting up an image of Zeus. The FUTURE Beast of Revelation 13 will be the very same man as Paul's man of sin, who will enter the new temple and declare to all that he is God. This simply has never happened, but is the future event Jesus was speaking of when He mentioned Daniel's abomination. MAKE NO MISTAKE, the 70th week of Daniel is still future. Your unbelief of this truth will not bother God even a little bit. The 6th and 7th seals are still in our future. The trumpet judgments are still in our future. The vials are still in our future.

 

If you cannot believe this now, just wait a while - you will not have long to wait, and you will SEE these events come.

 

LAMAD

[Montana Marv]

The main reason why so many people in Europe lost faith in God is because they thought that somehow because they were Christians, that they would be pardoned from tribulation and much sorrow, yet it quickly dawned on them, much to their shock and horror that they were dying and had experienced horrendous events, that led then to doubt God's existence.

It is this false teaching of being raptured and pardoned from tribulations / adversities in life, that has led many once devote Christians to throw in the towel so to speak to the devil and give up the fight and to join the ranks of the fallen of the world.

This is why I preach what is the central theme to Christianity and that is to die in the name of The Lord, having kept the faith to the very end. We as Christians are to expect the worst that the world has to throw at us. If we don't then we are living a lie. The truth be told that we are here as sheep amongst the wolves and what happens to the sheep is that they are brought before the world for slaughter.

The rally is to die in The Lord as martyrs and be counted worthy of his Christ's election and to NOT plant false hopes in people's minds of some RAPTURE OR pardoning from tribulations. Christians are head deep in tribulation today, as I write.

Why do you people want to escape, just be prepared to die in The Lord and believe me you will not be left disappointed like the many Europeans who went through both world wars.

Defending

 

You are dead wrong regarding the Rapture.  I Thes 4:17, 18 - After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (Harpozo) with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.  And so we will be with the Lord forever.  Therefore encourage each other with these words.

 

This is not escape, this is a reunion, this is the Wedding of the Lamb.  We encourage each other with Doctrine of the Rapture. 

 

Yes, we have trials and tribulations, ongoing since Pentecost.  Yet our trails and tribulations will end at our death (99 percent of Believers):  Yet our Physical Bodies are still in the grave, though our souls are in heaven with Christ.  To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.  The Rapture is the reuniting of our physical body and our spirit.  Yet those Believers who are still alive are changed at the time of the Rapture, and we will be with the Lord forever.

 

The 70th Week of Daniel, but especially the last half is the time of great distress of Matt 24:21 .  This time of Tribulation is for the unbelieving world, not Believers.  And they (the unbelieving world) repented not.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[iamlamad]

The main reason why so many people in Europe lost faith in God is because they thought that somehow because they were Christians, that they would be pardoned from tribulation and much sorrow, yet it quickly dawned on them, much to their shock and horror that they were dying and had experienced horrendous events, that led then to doubt God's existence.

It is this false teaching of being raptured and pardoned from tribulations / adversities in life, that has led many once devote Christians to throw in the towel so to speak to the devil and give up the fight and to join the ranks of the fallen of the world.

This is why I preach what is the central theme to Christianity and that is to die in the name of The Lord, having kept the faith to the very end. We as Christians are to expect the worst that the world has to throw at us. If we don't then we are living a lie. The truth be told that we are here as sheep amongst the wolves and what happens to the sheep is that they are brought before the world for slaughter.

The rally is to die in The Lord as martyrs and be counted worthy of his Christ's election and to NOT plant false hopes in people's minds of some RAPTURE OR pardoning from tribulations. Christians are head deep in tribulation today, as I write.

Why do you people want to escape, just be prepared to die in The Lord and believe me you will not be left disappointed like the many Europeans who went through both world wars.

Indeed, many events of the past caused Christians to think that the Day of the Lord had come. In fact, even in Paul's day some were teaching that the Day had come. They were all wrong. God never promised us to escape from the daily tribulations of life. what He DID promise us is that we wound be taken OUT of this world before He begins His wrath on a sinful world. In Revelation that wrath begins with the 6th seal, still future to us today.  God's wrath comes throughout the entire 70th week, so of course the pretrib rapture will come BEFORE the 70th week, just as Paul and John show us.

 

If you wish to set your OWN appointment - and it seems that is what you want - then by all means do. I am convinced God will allow it. You will meet the Beast and lose your head. And you will MISS the 7 plus years the Bride will spend in heaven. 

 

By the way, speaking of the bride, I hope you can show us HOW you will get to the marriage and supper in heaven?

 

You can call the rapture doctrine false teaching - but it would not be wise, for it is truth. It is written in the bible and all your unbelief cannot prevent it from coming; all it will do is cause you to be left behind. God put Luke 21:36 there just for US. I hope you obey it. Now again so you get it: WHAT are we to escape from? We escape first from HIS WRATH. But, since His wrath goes from Revelation 6 all the way to 19, we will escape all that is written between these chapters of Revelation. All those LEFT BEHIND will experience those chapters.

 

WHY do Christians want to escape? WAKE UP! God wrote the escape clause, not any Christian. It is HIS PLAN. Anyway, if you just WANT to have your head cut off, that is your choice. I would rather be caught up to heaven and ESCAPE all these things.

 

LAMAD

[iamlamad]

 

The main reason why so many people in Europe lost faith in God is because they thought that somehow because they were Christians, that they would be pardoned from tribulation and much sorrow, yet it quickly dawned on them, much to their shock and horror that they were dying and had experienced horrendous events, that led then to doubt God's existence.

It is this false teaching of being raptured and pardoned from tribulations / adversities in life, that has led many once devote Christians to throw in the towel so to speak to the devil and give up the fight and to join the ranks of the fallen of the world.

This is why I preach what is the central theme to Christianity and that is to die in the name of The Lord, having kept the faith to the very end. We as Christians are to expect the worst that the world has to throw at us. If we don't then we are living a lie. The truth be told that we are here as sheep amongst the wolves and what happens to the sheep is that they are brought before the world for slaughter.

The rally is to die in The Lord as martyrs and be counted worthy of his Christ's election and to NOT plant false hopes in people's minds of some RAPTURE OR pardoning from tribulations. Christians are head deep in tribulation today, as I write.

Why do you people want to escape, just be prepared to die in The Lord and believe me you will not be left disappointed like the many Europeans who went through both world wars.

Defending

 

You are dead wrong regarding the Rapture.  I Thes 4:17, 18 - After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (Harpozo) with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.  And so we will be with the Lord forever.  Therefore encourage each other with these words.

 

This is not escape, this is a reunion, this is the Wedding of the Lamb.  We encourage each other with Doctrine of the Rapture. 

 

Yes, we have trials and tribulations, ongoing since Pentecost.  Yet our trails and tribulations will end at our death (99 percent of Believers):  Yet our Physical Bodies are still in the grave, though our souls are in heaven with Christ.  To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.  The Rapture is the reuniting of our physical body and our spirit.  Yet those Believers who are still alive are changed at the time of the Rapture, and we will be with the Lord forever.

 

The 70th Week of Daniel, but especially the last half is the time of great distress of Matt 24:21 .  This time of Tribulation is for the unbelieving world, not Believers.  And they (the unbelieving world) repented not.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Good post, Marv! Right on!

[Marilyn C]

When the Body of Christ escorts Jesus to His throne they will be the court that pronounces agreement with Christ`s judgment upon the nations.

 

`the court will sit for judgment, & his dominion (A/C) will be taken away....` (Dan. 7: 26)

 

The prophet Daniel was not told who the court was but the Apostle Paul was given insight -

 

`Do you not know that the saints will judge the world (system)?....Do you not know that we shall judge fallen angels?` (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)

 

So as far as `escaping,`  - the truth is what has Christ purposed for the Body of Christ. We are to rule with Him & the first exercise of authority will be in relation to pronouncing judgment upon this world`s evil system.

[iamlamad]

 

 

 

If you believe you have to die, you will surely get left behind when Jesus comes for His Bride. Why? Simply because you have NO FAITH to be caught up into the air and changed into your resurrection body. He is coming for those WATCHING for His coming. that watching includes BELIEVING in His coming. Since you don't, then you don't qualify to escape what is coming. That escape clause is found in Luke 21:36. Since you won't be found worthy to escape, not believing in God's escape plan, you will be left behind to face the Beast. Good luck with that, for God has already said you will be overcome and lose your head. Well, isn't that where your faith is?

 

 

 

LAMAD

 

 

So we are to be found worthy to escape suffering and tribulation?  Doesn't that run contrary to God's word?

 

Calling the 70th week, seven years of wrath, skews your thinking.  What support do you have for claiming there will be seven years of wrath before Christ returns?  I see a sixth seal rapture, as I believe you do, but not until after the midpoint of the 70th week, after the saints have endured persecution.

 

I don't think the term "escape" in Luke 21:36 is a reference to the rapture alone.

 

“Be on guard, so that your hearts will not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day will not come on you suddenly like a trap; for it will come upon all those who dwell on the face of all the earth. But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.” Luke 21:34-36

 

The trap that's coming for those who aren't alert but weighed down with worldliness is the deception of the false prophet.  By praying and watching we are strengthened to resist his rule and give our lives for Christ.  By doing so, we are worthy to escape the wrath that is to follow.  Those who are alive and remain are caught up, and likewise escape the wrath to come.  What is to be escaped is God's wrath.  It is escaped by martyrdom first and then by rapture for those that remain....as I see it.

 

I suspect you can read as well as I can. What does Luke 21:36 mean?

 

³⁶ Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

It tells us to both watch and PRAY ALWAYS that we [anyone as an individual) may be counted worthy to escape... Well, are YOU watching? Are you praying? Are you obeying this verse?

 

Don't try and sidestep by creating a strawman. OF COURSE we will have tribulation. OF COURSE we will have suffering. the word of God TELLS US this. So what does Luke mean by "all these things?  Is this discourse in Luke the very same discourse as we find in Matthew 24? I believe it is.  Therefore what we will escape is found in the respective chapter of each book. So what Jesus was saying is that we can escape the abomination and the days of great tribulation to follow. Luke speaks of "that day" referring to the Day of the Lord.So these are the things we escape and we escape these things by way of the rapture.  So Jesus, through Luke, is telling us we can escape the Day of the Lord. Is this too hard for you to believe?

 

Sorry, your theory won't work, for it is AGAINST the word of the Lord. God has already said that the Beast will be given authority OVER the saints. Yet you think you can endure and survive? Good luck with that, when God says otherwise!

 

You must get your chronology in order - chronological order, that is. God's wrath begins at the beginning of the Day and the 70th week. So if we are to escape by being caught up, we must be caught up BEFORE the Day begins.....and that is exactly what the bible teaches us.

 

By the way, I am taking John's word for when God's wrath begins. I happen to believe God that it will begin at the 6th seal in chapter 6 of revelation, and will continue on through chapters 7, 8, 9,10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, and continue on when Jesus fights at the battle of Armageddon.

 

"The trap" as you wrote is simply one more thing that those will ESCAPE when they are caught up.

 

LAMAD

 

 

I suspect you can read as well as I can. What does Luke 21:36 mean?

 

 

I told you what I thought it meant.  Are you reading all of what I typed or are you shrieking-out on the first thing you disagree with?

 

 

You must get your chronology in order - chronological order, that is. God's wrath begins at the beginning of the Day and the 70th week.

 

 

Incorrectly identifying the 70th week as seven years of wrath is mainly where you err.  Again, I'll ask, how do you support that?  I believe this is a result of your misunderstanding the seals.

 

The things described in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 coincide with the first six seals.  Again, what we are to escape is what comes with the seventh seal, the wrath of God...."praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place".  We will escape either through martyrdom or the rapture.  Those who aren't watching or praying will be deceived and start to incur His wrath.

 

According to you, the first five seals are already broken, if I understand you right.  If you see "all these things that are to be escaped" as what's described in Matt 24 and Luke 21 then how do you plan to escape what you already consider history?

 

Again, how do you support the 70th week being seven years of wrath?  Let's start there.

 

I agree that some of the Olivet discourse (Matthew 24) seems to parallel some of Revelation. But if you read Matthew 24, he writes "the end is not yet" and then ties verse after verse back to that with "for," "then" and "and." In these verses Jesus is speaking of the CHURCH AGE. He does not get to the "end" until verse 13. Then He suddenly jumps right into the middle of the week with the abomination. So the first five seals are NOT IN the 70th week. The start of the week is marked by the 7th seal and the 30 minutes of silence.

 

Why then do you say I incorrectly identify the 70th week as wrath? It is YOUR theory that errs in NOT identifying the 70th week as God's wrath. I start the week where John starts it: with the 7th seal. And I read a very clear verse that God's wrath begins with the 6th seal. Joel proves to us that  the first trumpet judgments are the start of the Day of the Lord, and Old Testament verses prove that the Day of the Lord IS THE DAY OF HIS WRATH, just as John has told us. HOW do I support this? I don't have to, JOHN DOES IT. Read the last verse of Rev. chapter 6. Read Joel 1 and compare it with the first two trumpets. These two trumpets will be the final fulfillment of the Joel 1 prophecy. The 6th seal will be the final fulfillment of the Joel 2 prophecy of the sun and moon.

 

We escape His wrath. Well said. So the rapture MUST come before John writes of His wrath at the 6th seal.

 

how do you plan to escape what you already consider history?

 

Mostly what Jesus said we would escape is God's wrath. I find His wrath in the great earthquake at the 6th seal. I find His wrath in the trumpet judgments. I find His wrath in the vials. I even find God's wrath in the wrath of Satan going after all those who believe that are left behind. It is JUDGMENT time. God's plan will be to destroy the earth and the sinners in the earth. Unfortunately, some of God's people will still be here on earth and they will have to suffer. God has already said they will be overcome. It is not HIs best will for them. His will was they were ready and get caught up. Sadly, many will be lukewarm and will be left behind. Others will be left behind for other reasons. It will be THEIR doing, not God's. So I will escape what is FUTURE, not what is past. I know some on here don't believe in future. I do.

 

LAMAD

[Defending the Name]

Defending the name wrote;

I see Luke 21:34-36 as Jacob's trouble, where the Jewish nation was surrounded by the armies, that would soon within the first century generation, bring destruction to Jerusalem, in 70AD.

This message is to the first century Jewish generation as it states: "for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon THIS PEOPLE."

"THIS PEOPLE" are Jews of those times as it is related to Judea's impending destruction. This is Jacob's trouble.

You see, you just get started and already are in conflict with MUCH of today's church doctrine. I am convinced that Luke 21 is the very same discourse as Matthew 24, just each writer remembered different parts of it. I know that preterists think that most of what Jesus said then happened in 70 AD. they also say that most of Revelation is history also. In saying that, they show how utterly silly their doctrine is. They cannot point to specific event in history for any of the trumpet judgments. If it is history, then SHOW US WHEN some of these events happened.

Sorry, but I don't by your theory. Antoichus Epiphanes shows us what an abomination in the temple is, by sacrificing a pig on the altar and then setting up an image of Zeus. The FUTURE Beast of Revelation 13 will be the very same man as Paul's man of sin, who will enter the new temple and declare to all that he is God. This simply has never happened, but is the future event Jesus was speaking of when He mentioned Daniel's abomination. MAKE NO MISTAKE, the 70th week of Daniel is still future. Your unbelief of this truth will not bother God even a little bit. The 6th and 7th seals are still in our future. The trumpet judgments are still in our future. The vials are still in our future.

If you cannot believe this now, just wait a while - you will not have long to wait, and you will SEE these events come.

LAMAD

Firstly brother to clear up things, let me make it clear that I am not a Preterist and I am not interested in their interpretations and never put my time or thought in what they believe or what they don't believe.

I believe me and you have more in common than you are declaring, so please let me show you:

You stated that:

"The FUTURE Beast of Revelation 13 will be the very same man as Paul's man of sin"

My reply:

I fully agree with you on this and I do not believe the end time abomination that maketh desolate is Antoichus Epiphanes.

You stated:

"who will enter the new temple and declare to all that he is God"

My reply:

I don't agree with you on this point because God the Holy Spirit is not interested in a physically earthly temple, because he is the temple of the believers in Christ.

You stated:

"This simply has never happened, but is the future event Jesus was speaking of when He mentioned Daniel's abomination. MAKE NO MISTAKE"

My reply:

I fully agree with you that the abomination that maketh desolate is future. He is the little horn of Daniel's prophesy. I haven't made any mistake on that as I said I fully agree with you.

You stated:

"the 70th week of Daniel is still future"

My reply:

I partially agree with you in that the first half of Daniel's 70th week was for the coming of the Messiah, where by in the middle of that very same week he was crucified. As Daniel out it cut off. My agreement with you is that the remaining half of Daniel's 70th week is the entire new covenant age and the climax to the end of it, is when the abomination that maketh desolate, who is the man of sin is revealed in pomp and ceremony. So yes I am in partial agreement with you in that the ending of the Daniel's 70th week is future.

You stated:

"The 6th and 7th seals are still in our future. The trumpet judgments are still in our future. The vials are still in our future."

My reply:

Very good you are right on the money, I am in full agreement with you.

You stated:

"The trumpet judgments are still in our future"

My reply:

I fully agree with you that the trumpets sequentially follow the seals.

You stated:

"The vials are still in our future."

My reply:

Well done to you, I fully agree with you that the judgment vials are future WOES upon the remaining inhabitants of earth. These vials fall between the symbolic 1290 days, when the man of sin is revealed and those few elect who wait it out on earth in their protected chambers (Isaiah 26:20), until 1335 days. (Daniel 12:12).

Daniel 12:12

And blessed are those (ELECT) who wait and remain until the end of the 1,335 days

These elect are the last good wine to the wedding supper of the lamb of God as they were symbolised by the miracle that Jesus performed at the wedding at Galilee.

How many times have I agree with you?

Out of seven points that you made I agreed fully on 5 and partial on one. The one that I am unanimously in disagreement is that the antichrist will enter the new temple and declare to all that he is God.

As you have gathered now I have more in common with you than a Preterist, so please don't incorrectly label me as one of them.

Stay blessed

Edited September 18, 2014 by Defending the Name

[Defending the Name]

When the Antichrist (little horn) sits in the temple, this is not a physical temple built by humans hands. The temple that God is alluding to so the temple of the body. You see to a non believer he could not care where the antichrist sits, because he would not even entertain the thought a a temple that would be revered. So the temple must be recognised by the believer to be sacred. This temple is the dwelling of the Holy Ghost.

After this we can understand that the body of Christ who are Christians who have the indwelling of the Holy Ghost will be confronted with this false Messiah who pretends to be the Christ. So the man of sin presents himself not to unbelievers but to believers who are the temple of God and by doing so he deceives them into believing that he is the Messiah, when in fact he is the incarnated devil in flesh, who is the prince of this world.

2 Thessalonians 2

9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

So the little horn presents himself to the Christian believers as the Christ for the Christians are the Holy temple of God. After all to serve the lie that he is the a Messiah when he is in fact the devil in disguise is projected at the true temple worshippers who worship God in Spirit. The little horn is not presenting himself to none believers but actual Holy Spirit, so if it were also possible even the very elect are in danger of falling for this cruel lie.

Do you get it?

The temple is the temple of the Holy Ghost who are the congregation of Christ and this little horn comes posing as their Christ, in order to cheat them of their salvation and bring them into eternal damnation. That is why he is called the mother of all idol worship and he is THE (definitive article) abomination that maketh desolate who sits amongst Christ's sheep and pretends to be their Lord when in fact he is the devil in disguise.

So the man of sin sits in the assembly of Christ who are Holy Spirit filled Christians and tries to convince them through signs and lying wonders that he is their Lord. The man of sin is therefore sitting in the spiritual temple of God and claiming to be their God in flesh, the Christ. This cannot be a physical earthly temple of unbelieving Jews. Even if a physical temple is built for that meeting, it would still require believers to be assembled and present as the recipients of the ultimate lie of all lies.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Defending the Name