Guest shiloh357 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 the Bible doesn't say spousal abuse or child abuse is a sin, either. Re: Spousal Abuse... Goes against how people should treat each other in the Bible. 1 Peter 3:7Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered. Eph 5:22, 25, 33 22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 33 However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. Colossians 3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them. the Bible doesn't say spousal abuse or child abuse is a sin, either. Re: child abuse... Goes against Scripture as well.. Proverbs 19:18Discipline your son, for there is hope; do not set your heart on putting him to death. Ephesians 6:4Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.Colossians 3:21Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged. Proverbs 6:16-1016 There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him:17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,18 a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil,19 a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers. Neither of those posts show any Scripture that states abuse of one's spouse (husband or wife) or the abuse of a child is a sin. What they do is provide us with a biblical paradigm from which we can deduce that beating or sexually abusing a spouse or child is a sin. It's the same with smoking. The Bible doesn't say smoking is a sin, just like it doesn't say that obesity is a sin, but we have enough light in what the Bible does say about us being good stewards with our bodies as the temples of the Holy Spirit that we can ascertain if smoking or obesity amounts to obeying the Scriptures with regard to being good stewards of the bodies we are given. When parents make rules for their teens, a teen can deduce from the expected behavior what is right and wrong even if the parent doesn't actually mention a certain activity. It's the same with Scripture. There is a behavioral paradigm that is easily understood in the Bible and we can determine from the light given to us what is right or wrong even if the activity in question isn't directly mentioned in the text. I can deduce that the Bible would be against allowing people to douse themselves in gasoline and set themselves on fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disciplehelovestoo Posted June 12, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 159 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 81 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/10/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) Jerry - i was not offended, but many would have been; and your judgement of me and my intentions was not required to make your point. Jas 2:8-13 (8) If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: (9) But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. (10) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (11) For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. (12) So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. (13) For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. Jas 1:18-20 (18) Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. (19) Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: (20) For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. having respect of persons is like a coin; there are two sides - one is where you treat someone better than you treat others, and the flip side of the coin is when you treat someone worse than you treat others. responding in anger, even righteous indignation, does not move people toward your point of view - it will actually drive them away from your point of view among people, there is a tendency to assign a 'weight' or severity to wrong thoughts and actions; but it is not so with God. God is concerned with whether you believe Him or not about what you understand; a man who picked up sticks on the sabbath was stoned to death at God's command (Num 15:32-35), yet the disciples of Jesus picked and ate corn on the sabbath and Jesus did not condemn them (Mat 12:1-8); the difference was what the intent of their heart was, not the outward actions. we know that to offend in any one point is the same in God's eyes as to be guilty of breaking all of God's laws, and only those who are without sin are able to judge others (John 8:3-7). what is sin to you may not be sin to someone else; happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth - obviously this does not apply to wrong thoughts and actions expressly identified as sin, such as adultery; yet as in the example of the woman caught in that very act, God does not condemn based on actions, but based on intentions - and only He can see the heart and the intentions in it. Edited June 12, 2014 by disciplehelovestoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted June 13, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted June 13, 2014 a genuine born again can never smoke, Ok jerry, lets list them. What else can a "genuine born again" never do? I'll start.. 1 Gossip 2 Lose their temper 3 Lie (even slightly) 4 Break the speed limit 5 Come to work late 6 Eat the wrong diet and too much and put on weight 7 Not pay all the taxes they are due to pay 8 Take office supplies like paper or staples, or a blank Cd home 9 Spend time on Worthy while at work 10 Read gossip magazines... Over to you..... (Worthy has lots of space so don't concern yourself, the list will be very long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 jerry, i get that you are new here, and no offense... but please don't EVER make the accusation that a truly born again christian can never smoke. that is the equivalent of YOU judging a person's heart and relationship with God. i am a truly born again Christian, and have been for more than 40 years. and yet, i smoked for more than 30 of those years. there are a lot of born again christians with a true dedication to God here on these forums that still smoke. many christians do. and God works on us all in HIS time. for some people, He may be working in other areas of their life before dealing with them on the smoking issue. don't put yourself in God's seat. Exactly! Couldn't agree more. Some get saved and are blessed to have the smoking habit taken away immediately or almost that quick. Others have to struggle with it for awhile, but most believers lose the habit eventually. The drugs and booze needed to go first in my case, and it wasn't until years later that I could finally put down those "coffin nails" (as we used to call them) without being a danger to myself or others. (That "irritability" thing from withdrawl was really bad in my case.) I think I can say with some confidence that I didn't love Jesus any less back then, but finally got to a point where I could walk away from cigarettes and not have any desire to go back. Jesus gets the credit for the clean up - not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry1023 Posted June 13, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 427 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 156 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/29/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/20/1980 Share Posted June 13, 2014 jerry, i get that you are new here, and no offense... but please don't EVER make the accusation that a truly born again christian can never smoke. that is the equivalent of YOU judging a person's heart and relationship with God. i am a truly born again Christian, and have been for more than 40 years. and yet, i smoked for more than 30 of those years. there are a lot of born again christians with a true dedication to God here on these forums that still smoke. many christians do. and God works on us all in HIS time. for some people, He may be working in other areas of their life before dealing with them on the smoking issue. don't put yourself in God's seat. you are taking it personally,i never mean to offend anybody,i believe we are here to learn and to help our christian life,Apostle Paul was born out of due time,but he labour more than the rest Apostles,just food for a thought. from my own understanding,the way of christianity over here, is 100% difference from the way we pratice it in my country,in my country there is a difference between born again and a christian,i never mean to offend your ways of christianity,i have never been to USA before,so i did not know that you guys encourage a believer to smoke,i was only talking from my experience in my country,please you guys should not be offend,iam here to learn,in other to help my christian life and my walking relationship with God, Travelling is a part of experience,now i know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry1023 Posted June 13, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 427 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 156 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/29/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/20/1980 Share Posted June 13, 2014 a genuine born again can never smoke, Ok jerry, lets list them. What else can a "genuine born again" never do? I'll start.. 1 Gossip 2 Lose their temper 3 Lie (even slightly) 4 Break the speed limit 5 Come to work late 6 Eat the wrong diet and too much and put on weight 7 Not pay all the taxes they are due to pay 8 Take office supplies like paper or staples, or a blank Cd home 9 Spend time on Worthy while at work 10 Read gossip magazines... Over to you..... (Worthy has lots of space so don't concern yourself, the list will be very long please i beg you guys in the name of God,i was only talking base on how i was brought up as a christian in my country,difference culture and difference way of life,iam not judging anybody,I just believe that tobaco is not made for a genuine born again,but now i can see that my believe is totally disagree by 90% over here,majority carry the vote,as some believers are free to drink,likewise, some believers are free to smoke,after all no were in the bible,that says drinking and smoking is a sin,I rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted June 13, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2014 It is so easy to look into another persons life and point out their errors, but that is not what we are called to do. We are called to encourage other to live more like Christ in a loving way, not through finger pointing. There is only one person who will ever be sinless in this life and He died for our sins. Before His death and resurrection, one lesson Jesus gave us is found in Matthew 7:1-5 and Luke 6:39-42. Luke 6:39-42 And He spoke a parable to them: “Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into the ditch? A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone who is perfectly trained will be like his teacher. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me remove the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the plank that is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck that is in your brother’s eye. There is not one of us who does not sin daily. Our objective is to be more like Christ so when people know us, they know Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 It is so easy to look into another persons life and point out their errors, but that is not what we are called to do. We are called to encourage other to live more like Christ in a loving way, not through finger pointing. There is only one person who will ever be sinless in this life and He died for our sins. Before His death and resurrection, one lesson Jesus gave us is found in Matthew 7:1-5 and Luke 6:39-42. Luke 6:39-42 And He spoke a parable to them: “Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into the ditch? A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone who is perfectly trained will be like his teacher. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me remove the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the plank that is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck that is in your brother’s eye. There is not one of us who does not sin daily. Our objective is to be more like Christ so when people know us, they know Him. We are not called to judge other people, but we are called to point out what sin is. Saying that smoking is a sin isn't finger pointing in the sense that we are judging another person. Paul was far more harsh in his assessment of the lives of other believers than anyone is being here. If pointing out what sin is, is finger pointing then we can never condemn homosexuality or any other form of sexual perversion. If the fact that we sin daily means that we are unable to point to what is or is not sin, the NT commandment in Eph. 5 to expose the deeds of darkness makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted June 13, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted June 13, 2014 It is so easy to look into another persons life and point out their errors, but that is not what we are called to do. We are called to encourage other to live more like Christ in a loving way, not through finger pointing. There is only one person who will ever be sinless in this life and He died for our sins. Before His death and resurrection, one lesson Jesus gave us is found in Matthew 7:1-5 and Luke 6:39-42. Luke 6:39-42 And He spoke a parable to them: “Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into the ditch? A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone who is perfectly trained will be like his teacher. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me remove the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the plank that is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck that is in your brother’s eye. There is not one of us who does not sin daily. Our objective is to be more like Christ so when people know us, they know Him. We are not called to judge other people, but we are called to point out what sin is. Saying that smoking is a sin isn't finger pointing in the sense that we are judging another person. Paul was far more harsh in his assessment of the lives of other believers than anyone is being here. If pointing out what sin is, is finger pointing then we can never condemn homosexuality or any other form of sexual perversion. If the fact that we sin daily means that we are unable to point to what is or is not sin, the NT commandment in Eph. 5 to expose the deeds of darkness makes no sense. Agreed, but what concerns me is that we have these smoking threads, or gay threads, sometimes I think, because they are easy targets. (heaven forbid we start a smoking gay thread!) If we chose something we are all guilty of, (I am sure we can find a few that we all struggle with), our righteous indignation would be, I am bound to venture, less. And that was my point of asking Jerry to add to my list in post #34. Not because I wanted to pick on you Jerry, but because I wanted to make a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry1023 Posted June 13, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 427 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 156 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/29/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/20/1980 Share Posted June 13, 2014 It is so easy to look into another persons life and point out their errors, but that is not what we are called to do. We are called to encourage other to live more like Christ in a loving way, not through finger pointing. There is only one person who will ever be sinless in this life and He died for our sins. Before His death and resurrection, one lesson Jesus gave us is found in Matthew 7:1-5 and Luke 6:39-42. Luke 6:39-42And He spoke a parable to them: “Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into the ditch? A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone who is perfectly trained will be like his teacher. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me remove the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the plank that is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck that is in your brother’s eye. There is not one of us who does not sin daily. Our objective is to be more like Christ so when people know us, they know Him. Nobody is judging any one, the bible make us to understand that judgement will start from the house of God,i just believe that because of church doctrine and tradition of man,many of us will go to hell fire,Jesus said on that very day many of us will call Him Lord Lord, He will tell us to depath from me,for i know you not,may that not be our portion,in Jesus name,the bible said any one that wanted to correct or rebuke,should do it openly,so that others may learn,beating around the bush will not help us,James 4:17 says"anydody that know what is good and refuse to do it,the bible said it is a sin, Does smoking tobaco good? I have said before that i will never comment on this topic again,because of what my bible tells me in Roman 14:1-23" everything you are doing,without faith is a sin,God is watching I rest my case, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts