Prayer and fasting to cast out unbelief?

[disciplehelovestoo]

Andrew has made many claims about creation, Jesus, Satan and God that are not scriptural, such of claiming that God spoke Jesus into existence through men. Not so alarming is his claim that God spoke man into existence. These are just two examples of how his teachings should be researched and reviewed before taking his word to heart.

DO THE RESEARCH.

you could say this about ANY preacher/teacher aside from Jesus.  yes, by all means do the research - because our ministry isn't one of criticism, but one of reconciliation - the focus should be what God has said, not what His preachers say that we don't understand or agree with; we shouldn't help the devil accuse our brothers and sisters in Christ.  andrew's goal is to get people to study God's word, and it is obviously working.  how well would your total understanding of God stand up to world-wide scrutiny?  how many would condemn you for the things they don't agree with?  you'de be wise to be careful to only apply standards to others that you can meet yourself

[OneLight]

 

Andrew has made many claims about creation, Jesus, Satan and God that are not scriptural, such of claiming that God spoke Jesus into existence through men. Not so alarming is his claim that God spoke man into existence. These are just two examples of how his teachings should be researched and reviewed before taking his word to heart.

DO THE RESEARCH.

you could say this about ANY preacher/teacher aside from Jesus.  yes, by all means do the research - because our ministry isn't one of criticism, but one of reconciliation - the focus should be what God has said, not what His preachers say that we don't understand or agree with; we shouldn't help the devil accuse our brothers and sisters in Christ.  andrew's goal is to get people to study God's word, and it is obviously working.  how well would your total understanding of God stand up to world-wide scrutiny?  how many would condemn you for the things they don't agree with?  you'de be wise to be careful to only apply standards to others that you can meet yourself

 

Yes, we should always examine what we hear about scripture from anyone, and spend more time examining ourselves to ensure that we are remaining in His truth. That is something everyone should be encouraged to do. Yet, when error is found, what do you do about it? Do you follow someone who gets even the very basics of who Jesus is wrong? Do you ignore the truth we are told to teach because someone thinks you are helping the devil? The devil, so we can get this straight, does not want people to know the truth. He is the father of lies. If Satan can get someone to pass a lie by so not to look like they are judging someone or accusing someone, he has won a fight.

So tell me, am I doing the devils work because I warn about false teachings which is taught to us in 2 Timothy 3:16-17

 

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Do you agree that God created Jesus by using thousands of people to speak Him into existence?

Do you agree that man created Satan once man sinned?

Do you agree that Satan held God hostage?

Do you believe that we have the power to speak health and wealth into our lives?

These are just a few of what is taught by Andrew that I find in complete error with scripture. As we are told to study scripture to be closer to God, and when we become closer, find out that what we have been taught is wrong, do we continue to follow the false teachings to save face or do we follow the truth?

So ask yourself this: Is it doing Satan's work if we follow scripture and expose a lie, offering correction by pointing to the truth, or is it Satan's work if we ignore a lie and encourage others to follow a lie?

I leave you with scripture to consider.

2 Timothy 4:1-5

 

I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

[Sevenseas]

Andrew has made many claims about creation, Jesus, Satan and God that are not scriptural, such of claiming that God spoke Jesus into existence through men. Not so alarming is his claim that God spoke man into existence. These are just two examples of how his teachings should be researched and reviewed before taking his word to heart.

DO THE RESEARCH.

 

 

That, is exactly my concern.  And yes, what you note about him claiming that God spoke Jesus into existence is something I also had in mind....I find that particular interpretation

to be VERY alarming and IMO,  is erroneous enough to cause a person to do a double take on the rest of his teaching.

 

I never heard of Mr. Wommack until someone I am close to told me about his ministry and how involved they now are in it.

 

It seems my concerns are unfortuneatly justified.  I pray they are able to see the error and disengage....they are spending quite a bit of money on his teaching on top of being

deceived, so it is quite upsetting.

[Sevenseas]

 

Andrew has made many claims about creation, Jesus, Satan and God that are not scriptural, such of claiming that God spoke Jesus into existence through men. Not so alarming is his claim that God spoke man into existence. These are just two examples of how his teachings should be researched and reviewed before taking his word to heart.

DO THE RESEARCH.

you could say this about ANY preacher/teacher aside from Jesus.  yes, by all means do the research - because our ministry isn't one of criticism, but one of reconciliation - the focus should be what God has said, not what His preachers say that we don't understand or agree with; we shouldn't help the devil accuse our brothers and sisters in Christ.  andrew's goal is to get people to study God's word, and it is obviously working.  how well would your total understanding of God stand up to world-wide scrutiny?  how many would condemn you for the things they don't agree with?  you'de be wise to be careful to only apply standards to others that you can meet yourself

 

 

 

and yet the Bible warns us about false teachers, deception and deceiving spririts

 

no one wants to give anyone a bad name and I can assure you, I am more careful then most...if you consider my op, you will see it is not accusing at all

 

As far as anyone's world wide scrutiny goes, what does that have to do with the particular subject at hand?  You seem to be somewhat defensive....I don't find defense necessary

when one exhibits and lives the truth

 

I am grieved by the deception and the false teaching in the world today having once been the recipient of such teaching and had my life pretty much torn apart by it

 

I say, let people question....there is nothing wrong with that.  The truth will always come out on top.

[Sevenseas]

 

 

 

Mat 17:19-21

(19)  Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?

(20)  And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

(21)  Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

 

the subject in verse 21 is unbelief not casting out devils - and this kind of unbelief comes out only by prayer and fasting.

 

prayer connects with God; fasting gives us control over the input of our senses.  faith casts out devils, but faith is hindered by unbelief.  unbelief takes three general forms for the reborn in Christ: ignorance of the Word, wrong teaching, and natural 5 sense input.  the disciples had likely seen the same powerful demonstration of demonic influence that Jesus saw in Mark 9:20, yet He was unmoved by this demonstration, whereas they were.  

 

Andrew Womack rightly teaches that we all have THE measure of faith (Rom 12:3); faith is the gift of God, and He is no respector of persons - faith is never the variable - unbelief or doubt hinders or binds faith; unbelief is under our control, and is made ineffective by hearing the Word of God with understanding through fellowship with God (Rom 10:14-17).

 

 

 

Why does Jesus say if you have grain like a mustard seed as pertains to faith then?  

 

I do not agree, as so many WOF adherents do, that we are to blame if God does not heal or whatever.  I do believe there are hindrances to prayer, bit I have prayed with almost no hope

or faith and yet God still answered.  

 

If we are going to interpret this and other passages, with the onus on OUR faith, then is God looking for bigger faith and those with less faith get passed over?

 

I think there are many problems with that interpretation

 

I do see where you say the subject of 21 is unbelief...but is Jesus talking about a measure of faith or some demons requiring a different approach?

(I'm not demon chasing or anything....I am just looking at the interpretation...there are other things I have read that Wommack teaches that are equally or even more ... well...certainly

not any interpretation I've come across before)

 

At any rate, I cannot really see where there is a separation between faith and belief or unbelief as if you have faith, then you believe, right?  But if you don't have ENOUGH faith, then

are we actually looking at a measure of faith and as God is not a respecter of persons, as you correctly say, then would He not hear from anyone with any faith?

 

So, are you saying that you agree with what is taught by Wommack....Jesus is saying we should pray and fast to cast out unbelief?  If you are casting out unbelief, then it sounds

like you are actually casting out a demon as many people will give evil spirits names such as unbelief, or migraine or whatever....(again, I'm not agreeing with that teaching either...

just questionning the interpretation)

 

 

please ask about specific scripture with reference(s); i can't tell what scripture you're asking about in your first question.

 

our very salvation is based on faith - believing God's word above every other report - why would healing be different?  i don't know why you're asking me about 'bigger faith' since i clearly said that all have the same amount based on Rom 12:3 - God's faith - the ability to believe in a virgin birth, resurrection from the dead, healing, prosperity, etc. is a gift from God; His faith is never the variable because He is not variable.

 

hen came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?

(20)  And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief

 

the disciples asked why they couldn't cast out this demon, and Jesus plainly told them 'because of your unbelief'; not 'because of your little faith', or 'because this demon is different from other demons'.

 

God's faith comes from His Spirit to our soul (mind, will and emotions) and is based exclusively on His revealed written word; carnal faith comes from our intelligence and is based on experience and what we perceive with the 5 senses.  

 

Mar 9:22-25

(22)  And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.

(23)  Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

(24)  And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

(25)  When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.

 

the father obviously had doubts (unbelief) in his mind, yet also believed with his heart - and Jesus told him 'If thou canst believe', clearly putting the responsibility to believe on the father - and we see that his son was set free from the demon, indicating that the father's 'heart' faith was effective even when there were doubts in his 'head' faith.  where is there any reference to the amount of faith being the deciding factor in scripture?  please look closely at any examples you think you find before you answer.

 

Healing is just like salvation:

 

God isn't saving anyone today; God has already made salvation available to everyone - people receive salvation by placing faith in what He has already accomplished through Jesus at the cross.

 

God isn't healing anyone today; God has already made healing available to everyone - people receive healing by placing faith in what He has already accomplished through Jesus at the whipping post.

 

i have listened to almost all of andrew womack's teachings and been a partner of his for years, and i don't know of him ever teaching that a lack of faith is why some people don't receive from God.  i have seen many many people receive miracles by placing faith in what God has already made available at the whipping post through Jesus as a result of studying what Andrew teaches about what the scriptures say about healing.  this is not to say that everything he teaches is absolute Truth - he is not Jesus any more than either of us are.

 

when i read what i posted, i don't see how you got the idea that we are to cast out unbelief as we do demons; we are to renew our minds with God's word, and as we gain revelation knowledge of His word through fellowship with Him, our unbelief is reduced by renewing the mind.  however, fasting helps us to control our flesh rather than be dominated by it, so that when we see a powerful manifestation of demonic influence such as when the boy rolled around, foamed at the mouth, threw himself in the fire, etc.; we will be better able to reject what our eyes and ears tell us in preference to what God's word says.

 

you don't have to take my word for it, you can listen to his "God wants you well" teaching series for free download from his website (no cost means no excuse )

 

 

 

ummmm.....I agree with some of what you write above....I am not ignorant of scripture...I was asking other's opinions of one certain interpretation and you appear to be turning or trying to

turn, this op into a defense on Mr Wommack

 

That is not called for and I was not interested in creating a general call to arms for or against his teaching

 

 

when i read what i posted, i don't see how you got the idea that we are to cast out unbelief as we do demons; we are to renew our minds with God's word, and as we gain revelation knowledge of His word through fellowship with Him, our unbelief is reduced by renewing the mind.  however, fasting helps us to control our flesh rather than be dominated by it, so that when we see a powerful manifestation of demonic influence such as when the boy rolled around, foamed at the mouth, threw himself in the fire, etc.; we will be better able to reject what our eyes and ears tell us in preference to what God's word says.

 

 

I do believe you have deviated from what I wrote in response to your post.  A general survey of Mr Wommacks teaching does not explain why he differs from every other Bible scholar (I do not 

believe he actually is a Bible scholar) in his notes on the verse in question

 

Is Mr Wommack actually equipped to create his own commentary?  

 

I really do not see how Jesus is saying we must fast and pray to cast out unbelief.....that would make unbelief a personality that is foreign to our own body....or do you not understand that?

 

I believe that the fasting and prayer required is to deal with the demonic sprit and not the amount or size of faith...you have to start somewhere...I believe absolutely that the demons

must obey in Jesus name...however, the Bible indicates that not all the spirits are of equal strength

 

But again, I did not really want to turn this into a discussion on demonology

 

Reading your response, it seems you actually do adhere to the WOF teaching that our faith determines the outcome. That makes those who do not receive the outcome

they have faith for, to somehow be less a Christian then those who do.  That simply does not line up with scripture.  That, is WOF doctrine and it has hurt many people.

[walkonwater]

 

Mat 17:19-21

(19)  Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?

(20)  And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

(21)  Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

 

the subject in verse 21 is unbelief not casting out devils - and this kind of unbelief comes out only by prayer and fasting.

 

prayer connects with God; fasting gives us control over the input of our senses.  faith casts out devils, but faith is hindered by unbelief.  unbelief takes three general forms for the reborn in Christ: ignorance of the Word, wrong teaching, and natural 5 sense input.  the disciples had likely seen the same powerful demonstration of demonic influence that Jesus saw in Mark 9:20, yet He was unmoved by this demonstration, whereas they were.  

 

Andrew Womack rightly teaches that we all have THE measure of faith (Rom 12:3); faith is the gift of God, and He is no respector of persons - faith is never the variable - unbelief or doubt hinders or binds faith; unbelief is under our control, and is made ineffective by hearing the Word of God with understanding through fellowship with God (Rom 10:14-17).

 

I wanted to share with you from experience that faith also is a variable, yes we all have the measure of faith, but faith also can be increased, as per:  Luke 17:5 -  And the apostles said unto the Lord, "Increase our faith."             I received a healing while attending a Holy Spirit filled church and not understanding the "gifts" of  the Holy Spirit, I was fearful being there when hearing others speak in tongues, I had gone with a friend, and she was the driver or I would have ran out of there, I'm glad I didn't, because the Lord filled me with a wonderful peace and healed my knees, I felt as if there was a warm sunshine inside my knees.  I never forgot that healing, also I barely ever attended a church, even after my healing, but when my child became sick, at first I was seeking here in this world, and not God and felt hopeless, yes we are limited and yes God is not limited by nothing, not one thing is above God.   The first thing I did was get on my knees and came to Him with His Words that says our bodies are His temple, and I know nothing has a right to defile His temple, at the time I didn't even realize that His temple is not our flesh body, but our spirit.  The Lord led me to repentance for so many sins of my past, so many I lost count, the Lord showed me also that His ways are above our ways, after all, His ways are Heavenly, so they have to be greater.  The Lord then Led me to His words to pray for my unbelief to be helped,(Mark 9:23&24) I didn't even realize I was an unbeliever I thought I did believe, I came to Him, but I was not a Full believer of His cross, only partial, the part of our sins being forgiven, but I didn't know that we are also healed, no one ever told me, but the Lord has shown me.  What? my forever life is saved in Jesus, but not my life here and now?  He's the savior of my all, here and now and forever, and that is by His cross, already fully done in heaven, earth just needs to catch up,  I will trust Him.  The Lord led me to ask for "my faith to be increased in Him," and He did it for me, if they could ask then so could I, there's no variable there, and I truly love how we have a God of increase and multiplicity, He's amazing.  The Lord led me to ask for His Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13) it didn't take anyone's hands, only  His, you just have to ask and He gives, He did for me, and I'm no different than anyone else, His Words are True for all of us.  After our Faithful God led me to my needs in Him, He filled all of them, He forgave my sins, He helped my unbelief, He increased my faith in Him, His Holy Spirit was living inside of me, just as He said.  After all He did for me, it was me He healed in my own home, in an unbelieving world, I could have done nothing without Him, and He did everything for me.   The Lord had given me a dream of me standing over my daughter and teaching her from His words, He has also healed her many times, but it does come back on her, not as strong though, and I am not sure why, maybe because of her unforgiving of others, I don't know, but my faith in God is that one day the fullness of His cross will be fully established in her life, not just sins forgiven but also healed.   This is more lengthy than I wanted it to be, but I just wanted to let you know, that "faith can be increased," as the Lord, Our Lord, did do that for me.            

[Sevenseas]

 

 

Mat 17:19-21

(19)  Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?

(20)  And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

(21)  Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

 

the subject in verse 21 is unbelief not casting out devils - and this kind of unbelief comes out only by prayer and fasting.

 

prayer connects with God; fasting gives us control over the input of our senses.  faith casts out devils, but faith is hindered by unbelief.  unbelief takes three general forms for the reborn in Christ: ignorance of the Word, wrong teaching, and natural 5 sense input.  the disciples had likely seen the same powerful demonstration of demonic influence that Jesus saw in Mark 9:20, yet He was unmoved by this demonstration, whereas they were.  

 

Andrew Womack rightly teaches that we all have THE measure of faith (Rom 12:3); faith is the gift of God, and He is no respector of persons - faith is never the variable - unbelief or doubt hinders or binds faith; unbelief is under our control, and is made ineffective by hearing the Word of God with understanding through fellowship with God (Rom 10:14-17).

 

I wanted to share with you from experience that faith also is a variable, yes we all have the measure of faith, but faith also can be increased, as per:  Luke 17:5 -  And the apostles said unto the Lord, "Increase our faith."             I received a healing while attending a Holy Spirit filled church and not understanding the "gifts" of  the Holy Spirit, I was fearful being there when hearing others speak in tongues, I had gone with a friend, and she was the driver or I would have ran out of there, I'm glad I didn't, because the Lord filled me with a wonderful peace and healed my knees, I felt as if there was a warm sunshine inside my knees.  I never forgot that healing, also I barely ever attended a church, even after my healing, but when my child became sick, at first I was seeking here in this world, and not God and felt hopeless, yes we are limited and yes God is not limited by nothing, not one thing is above God.   The first thing I did was get on my knees and came to Him with His Words that says our bodies are His temple, and I know nothing has a right to defile His temple, at the time I didn't even realize that His temple is not our flesh body, but our spirit.  The Lord led me to repentance for so many sins of my past, so many I lost count, the Lord showed me also that His ways are above our ways, after all, His ways are Heavenly, so they have to be greater.  The Lord then Led me to His words to pray for my unbelief to be helped,(Mark 9:23&24) I didn't even realize I was an unbeliever I thought I did believe, I came to Him, but I was not a Full believer of His cross, only partial, the part of our sins being forgiven, but I didn't know that we are also healed, no one ever told me, but the Lord has shown me.  What? my forever life is saved in Jesus, but not my life here and now?  He's the savior of my all, here and now and forever, and that is by His cross, already fully done in heaven, earth just needs to catch up,  I will trust Him.  The Lord led me to ask for "my faith to be increased in Him," and He did it for me, if they could ask then so could I, there's no variable there, and I truly love how we have a God of increase and multiplicity, He's amazing.  The Lord led me to ask for His Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13) it didn't take anyone's hands, only  His, you just have to ask and He gives, He did for me, and I'm no different than anyone else, His Words are True for all of us.  After our Faithful God led me to my needs in Him, He filled all of them, He forgave my sins, He helped my unbelief, He increased my faith in Him, His Holy Spirit was living inside of me, just as He said.  After all He did for me, it was me He healed in my own home, in an unbelieving world, I could have done nothing without Him, and He did everything for me.   The Lord had given me a dream of me standing over my daughter and teaching her from His words, He has also healed her many times, but it does come back on her, not as strong though, and I am not sure why, maybe because of her unforgiving of others, I don't know, but my faith in God is that one day the fullness of His cross will be fully established in her life, not just sins forgiven but also healed.   This is more lengthy than I wanted it to be, but I just wanted to let you know, that "faith can be increased," as the Lord, Our Lord, did do that for me.            

 

 

 

Yes, God is faithful but unfortunately, not everyone who calls themself a teacher is faithful and much harm can be done to someone through deceptive or misplaced faith in the person

rather then in God.

 

 

By the way, EVERY single believer has the Holy Spirit inside of them....a Holy Spirit filled church is not a reference we find in scripture.  We find that each believer is sealed by the

Spirit of God and that each believer has available to them the gifts that God bestows upon individual for the building up of the body of Christ.  

 

I don't question the genuine work of the Holy Spirit or the genuine application of truth from scripture.  I started this op because of a deep concern I have for someone who I think may

be getting involved in teaching that is not quite right.  

 

I hope this thread will not go off course here.  Please let's stay on topic should this thread continue.   OK?  Thanks

[disciplehelovestoo]

the thread went off course when someone used it as an excuse to condemn a brother in Christ who has helped millions of people - yes millions.

 

to those of you who feel you can judge andrew womack to be in gross error - how many people have you seen healed in your ministries?  how many people have you helped find their way to the Lord?  how many countries do your teaching broadcasts reach?  how many bible colleges have you established?  how many abortion-alternative clinics have you set up?  i could go on, but either you get my point or you won't

 

no, we're not going to distract from the OP, unless it is to criticize someone not present that we don't agree with, right?

[Sevenseas]

Thanks for staying on course.

 

I don't apprecaite your undeserved comments.  I asked the question I did for personal reasons. 

 

I have never personally healed anyone and let's hope that Andrew Wommack has never healed anyone either.  Who helas?  People or God?

 

I don't care what someone does if their teaching is off base....it just means that even more people are being led astray.

 

Thanks for respecting my request.  I am sincere in what I asked but it appears that you are more keen to argue.

[Guest]

the thread went off course when someone used it as an excuse to condemn a brother in Christ who has helped millions of people - yes millions.

 

to those of you who feel you can judge andrew womack to be in gross error - how many people have you seen healed in your ministries?  how many people have you helped find their way to the Lord?  how many countries do your teaching broadcasts reach?  how many bible colleges have you established?  how many abortion-alternative clinics have you set up?  i could go on, but either you get my point or you won't

 

no, we're not going to distract from the OP, unless it is to criticize someone not present that we don't agree with, right?

 

When someone is in gross error according to scripture it is not condemnation to call out that error. Good works do not somehow magically make up for someone's teaching not lining up with scripture.