How does the Holy Spriit convict?

[carlos123]

You post however you are lead to post Carlos, and I'll trust God's Holy Spirit for discernment.

Thanks Suzanne but forgive me for being persistent here, if you don't know by now I can get very persistent, will you then interact with me regarding what I may post? Will you share any discernment that the Holy Spirit gives you such that we can all learn from it? Not in just posting a verse or two or three and leaving us to guess as to what the Holy Spirit was telling you though them but rather in describing how the Holy Spirit helped you see something personally? As it relates to your own thinking and where it might have been wrong?

I sense that you are starting to avoid my questions just a tad sis. Do you not see a problem with the style of relating that you have described centered around the Word?

By the way this may be starting to get too personal in the sense that God might want to say something to you about the way you relate on the forum. As such it may be better, if you think it best, to take this to private communication sis. Please let me know if you wish to do that and PM me. I don't mind continuing to discuss this openly on this thread if you don't mind sis but I just burned another sis over a too open expression of what I saw in her life that would have been better to do privately and I don't want to make the same mistake twice.

If you don't mind, I don't mind continued discussion of this in public sis. Just bear in mind that you or I might have to be willing to let the Lord point out things in one or both our lives in the form of correction through one another on this thread. And that this will be in public if we stay public.

The reason I say that is because the issue being discussed is being displayed pefectly through your style of relating and on the other side through mine. Such that any continued discussion of this issue through me or you specifically may expose us to wrong thinking or beliefs in how we relate to others. In public. I don't mind if you don't but I wanted to give you the chance to go private if you wanted to.

Carlos

[tsth]

Dear Carlos,

Forgive my bluntness, but you are being redundant.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

That was an opinion, possibly outside of the instruction of the Word.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[carlos123]

Forgive my bluntness, but you are being redundant.

Nothing to forgive sis. Thanks for the correction.

Carlos

[other one]

..............................

Take an unbeliever.  And you go and share this with them...."The Bible says that Jesus died for our sins and that if you believe you will be saved!"  The unbelever responds "Yes I agree with that.  I believe and therefore I am saved!"  You say nothing in response.  You leave it at that and walk away letting the Holy Spirit work out the details in that person's life believing that He will reveal deception if there is any there.  You know the person is living in sin immorally with their girlfriend.  You know they habitually lie and steal things.  You know they don't go to church.  But you leave it up to the Holy Spirit to connect the dots for that person and don't bring these things up for discussion with them. 

Now take this case. 

Again we have an unbeliever. You know all of the above about the person.  You see that there is an inconsistentcy between what they say they believe and their walk.  Once again you share "The Bible says that Jesus died for our sins and that if you beleive you will be saved!".  Once again the unbeliever says "Yes I agree with that.  I believe and therefore I am saved!"  But, and this is the crux of the matter here, this time you respond by pointing out that their lifestyle contradicts what they say and that perhaps they are believing in an intellectual sense and not with true saving faith which results in good works and a submission to Christ as Lord.  To which the unbeliever responds by trying to justify themselves to which you respond.....

Do you see the difference there?

.........

Carlos

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

carlos, might I point out here that in the two cases you are not giving the unsaved person the same information.

First situation you are telling the unsaved person all he/she has to do to be saved is believe........ I personally don't think the bible really says that, but lets go on....

Situation number two: you are telling the unsaved person that he/she has to believe and there must be somehting else expected by a changing of their life style.

The problem with both is that a simple truth was all that was given and the information that he/she needs to see the entire picture was not even mentioned in the first situation. The second situation only begins to inform the unsaved person that there is more to the story and he/she needs to understand other things

If we are going to help people and expect the Holy Spirit to complete our beginnings, the people we are helping need to know that there are other things they will have to learn and tell them where to find it and instruct them on how to pray and get the help of the Holy Spirit.

As for other things between believers I think we sould express our thoughts, but not expect everyone will agree. The bible does leave room for different doctrines in matters beyond initial salvation. Some will be shown good and those rewarded, and other will not stand up and those people will loose some reward, but not salvation.

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As a side note, I truly believe that the "all you have to do is believe to be saved" thing was about the worst injustice done to me as a very young person. It caused me not to get to know the Holy Spirit at all until I was about 30 and in very serious trouble spiritually.....

[tsth]

As a side note, I truly believe that the "all you have to do is believe to be saved" thing was about the worst injustice done to me as a very young person. It caused me not to get to know the Holy Spirit at all until I was about 30 and in very serious trouble spiritually.....

I agree other one, I believe it is causing a great deception within the churches now.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Carlos,

I am still not sure what you are gettng at, but I see Suzanne has responded very well by pointing you in a direction. I agree with her that unless led by the Holy Spirit, we must be very careful in handling the Word of God. Other One hit the nail on the head. The "law" was given to convict and convince a sinner of his/her sin. Grace then is offered when one humbles him/her/self and accepts Christ as Lord and Savior of their life.

As for your duel scenario, we have the example of the "thief on the cross". He came to the recognition of his own sin and confessed it and even rebuked the other thief for his accusations against Christ. Then he turned to Christ and asked for mercy. Now you have to remember this guy couldn't do too much. He was a goner. He couldn't be baptized. He couldn't sell all he had for the Kingdom's sake, he couldn't do anything but make a simple confession. But Jesus responded to that confession and accepted him into the Kingdom.

We have many examples by Jesus of how to respond to various people. Words like: "Go and sin no more."; "Oh ye of little faith."; "Believe and be saved." etc.

We each have a responsibility to our lost brothers/sisters. We must realize that "but for the grace of God there go I." In addition to preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ (which is God's power unto salvation), to lost souls, we become at least in part, responsible to see that they have the basics of their salvation. The humbling of oneself before God, the putting away of sin from our lives, picking up our cross and following Christ, then when all is done, to "look up, for our redemption draweth nigh." These are all important things that a saint of God should be aware of. We are each commanded: "Be ready to give an answer to everyone of the faith that is in you, with gentleness and respect."

So is that what you wanted to hear?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[carlos123]

So is that what you wanted to hear?

Thanks for your additional input Dad Ernie. I am somewhat discouraged that the issue that I brought seems to be so unclear. It's not about what I want to hear by the way. I think I know what you mean though and I appreciate your question.

I am talking about the difference between those who share the Word and let the Holy Spirit convict apart from any further discussion or pursuasion on their part and those who share the Word and then try to pursuade others of what they believe it says.

I have on occasion heard Christians say things like "You are trying to be the Holy Spirit. Convicting people is His job!' and things of that nature.

So I was hoping to get input and iron out how the Holy Spirit convicts and whether he does indeed want to do it through just the sharing of the Word alone (with no further explanation, discussion, or pursuasion on our part) or whether He might actually convict through our subsequent attempts to pursuade others as we discuss the practical implications of what the Word says with others.

I don't really know what is so hard to understand about what I am saying.

It's like if I just share a verse with you. John 3:26. I quote it and leave it that. Is that all it takes for the Holy Spirit to convict? Just a recitation of the Word? Verbatim. Word for word? No pursuasion. No discussion of how what the Word says might be personally relevant. Just spit the Word out and leave it at that.

Or does He want to use our minds and spiritual logic if you will, exercised through pursuasion to bring about conviction as we discuss the practical implications of what the Word says with one another? We don't just share the Word but we also discuss our various opinions about what the Word says. Contrasting and comparing things and trusting God to lead us to greater understanding.

Or some of both?

If that is not clear enough I think I am going to give up on this thread. I'm getting a headache, in a manner of speaking, trying to explain it several different ways! . It's a bit discouraging to not be understood when I am trying to be as clear as I possibly can be.

Carlos

[carlos123]

At the risk of disappointing you with "only" Scriptures  ,  I thought I would recommend that you read Job 32, with regard to Elihu..........

Hi Suzanne. Just wanted to let you know that I am going to ahve to wait on reading Job until tommorrow niht. I am so tired that I am practially falling over. Went into the office tonigh and got home late.

My fingers are so tired that I can barely type.

Have a good nigh tya all!

Carlos

[Dad Ernie]

I have on occasion heard Christians say things like "You are trying to be the Holy Spirit.  Convicting people is His job!' and things of that nature. 

So I was hoping to get input and iron out how the Holy Spirit convicts and whether he does indeed want to do it through just the sharing of the Word alone (with no further explanation, discussion, or pursuasion on our part) or whether He might actually convict through our subsequent attempts to pursuade others as we discuss the practical implications of what the Word says with others. 

Greetings Carlos,

Have you read the story about Philip and the Eunuch? The Holy Spirit was at work and the Eunuch became convicted and asked to be baptized. Paul tells us that "some plant, some water, but God gives the increase".

It is our job to "always be prepared to give an answer for the hope that is in you, with meekness AND FEAR (or respect)." If someone saw that you were Bible Banging someone with the Word, I could understand their comments to you. Our job is NOT to convict. Have you read the story of Jesus, James and John, the "sons of thunder"? If those to whom we are sent reject us, it is not us they are rejecting, it is Christ. God's Word is powerful, even to the dividing asunder of bone and marrow and soul and spirit. Let it do the work, God does not let His Word come back to Him void. Either a person will accept it, or will reject it, in any case, you have done what you were supposed to do. God gives the increase.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie