The word 'olam'

[dscapp]

You're as flawed as they are.   Why should I take your word on how the biblical text should be translated over there's?   What makes your views superior to those who have studied how to translate the text?

 

Exactly!! So basically it all comes down to beliefs. We won't really know if hell is forever until we die and ask the Lord ourselves. Am I close?

[Guest shiloh357]

 

You're as flawed as they are.   Why should I take your word on how the biblical text should be translated over there's?   What makes your views superior to those who have studied how to translate the text?

 

Exactly!! So basically it all comes down to beliefs. We won't really know if hell is forever until we die and ask the Lord ourselves. Am I close?

 

Nope.   Because from that vantage point, how would we know if anything we read in the Bible is accurate?   What parts of what the Bible says should we write off as mistranslations and which parts do we accept?    The word "olam" is translated wrong in terms of hell, then how do we know that eternal life is actually eternal?   How do we know if the promises about living with the Lord forever after we die can be trusted?

 

Your position, if followed through to its logical conclusion, would make the entire Bible an unreliable document.

[dscapp]

What parts of what the Bible says should we write off as mistranslations and which parts do we accept?

 

Punctuation in Luke 23:43! There was no punctuation in the original text. The subject of time and punctuation are both HUGE and can easily be distorted.

 

The word "olam" is translated wrong in terms of hell, then how do we know that eternal life is actually eternal?

 

That is the million dollar question shiloh. As you stated here....

 

Well, you are not taking into account the fact that olam means different things depending on the context.   Hebrew words play double, triple, quadruple duty, etc.   One word in Hebrew can have as many as 18 different usages depending on the context in which it appears.

 

Olam means "forever" in terms of this present age.  In some contexts, olam simply means until the end of someone's life.    But in other contexts, olam actually does mean forever in the sense of perpetually, without end for all eternity such as how it is used in Is. 60:19-20.

 

The sentences that pop out of your statement here are..

 

1. olam means different things depending on the context

2. Hebrew words play double, triple, quadruple duty, etc.

3. One word in Hebrew can have as many as 18 different usages depending on the context in which it appears.

4. Olam means "forever" in terms of this present age.  In some contexts, olam simply means until the end of someone's life.

 

These are four major factors at play here. So how do we know how to translate the subject of time in regards to hell when these four factors are in the way.

[dscapp]

Dscapp, the answer is in the first factor you listed... it means different things depending ON CONTEXT. We must read all the words not only in the one scripture but the whole paragraph and possibly at times even the whole chapter or even book, depending on the word we are trying to discern its meaning. God is very specific with His words.

 

The word we are trying to discern without translation is Gehenna (hell in the after life).

[Guest shiloh357]

 

What parts of what the Bible says should we write off as mistranslations and which parts do we accept?

 

Punctuation in Luke 23:43! There was no punctuation in the original text. The subject of time and punctuation are both HUGE and can easily be distorted.

 

But we are not dealing with punctuation.  And punctuation is not arbitrary, but it supplied by context. 

 

The word "olam" is translated wrong in terms of hell, then how do we know that eternal life is actually eternal?

 

That is the million dollar question shiloh. As you stated here....

 

No, it's not the million dollar question if you really believe the Bible and what it says.  It is those who with an ungodly agenda who try to muddy the waters about what passages mean.  My point was that your approach to the text is internally inconsistent.   If eternal only means eternal when you want it to mean that, when it only mistranslated pertaining to Hell, it reveals to me that you are trying to make the text mean what you want it to mean.  You are either adding or taking away from the Word of God by the kind of interpretation you are employing.

 

 

 

The sentences that pop out of your statement here are..

 

1. olam means different things depending on the context

2. Hebrew words play double, triple, quadruple duty, etc.

3. One word in Hebrew can have as many as 18 different usages depending on the context in which it appears.

4. Olam means "forever" in terms of this present age.  In some contexts, olam simply means until the end of someone's life.

 

These are four major factors at play here. So how do we know how to translate the subject of time in regards to hell when these four factors are in the way.

 

 

Once again the issue is context.  The Bible is self-interpreting.   God is more than capable of saying exactly what He means.  Word usage is more important than word meaning.   People seem to be only concerned with what a word means, when they need to be examining how the word is used.  We can understand the author better if we allow the context and line of thought determine how we understand specific words.

 

Matt. 25:46 uses the NT Greek equivalent to olam, (aionios) in terms of eternal punishment  and eternal life in Heaven.  The same Greek word is used twice in the same verse.  It is impossible to make aionios mean one thing in terms of punishment and mean something else when speaking about eternal life, particularly when both concepts occur in the same verse.

 

Eternal punishment and eternal life are juxtaposed with each other as direct opposites.  For that reason, both uses of the word aionios must mean the exact same thing.  Otherwise the juxtaposition of those words makes no sense.

[Butch5]

 

The Greek OT was translated from a much older Hebrew text than the one in you Bible. The Greek OT was translated about 250-300 BC.by 72 Jewish scholars. The Greek word "aion" is similar but not exactly the same a "olam." "Olam" carries the idea of time unseen, When the Scriptures says something is "Olam" it means to time unseen. If you look this from the Jewish perspective as traveling a road it make sense. As one travels a road they can only see to the next hill or to the next bend in the road. If you're interested I can give you a few links that explain this from a Jewish perspective.

 

But the fact is, is that it was translated in the first place. Translations in general cloud scripture, especially when finding answers in difficult passages, like hell.

 

The Greek word "aion" is similar but not exactly the same a "olam."

 

This is exactly what I mean.

It's not exactly the same because flawed men took the original text and translated scripture into their own language.

For example, certain words in the Hebrew dictionary do not exist in the Greek dictionaries..so they choose whatever word is similar.

 

I agree that translations can cloud the our understanding, however, we have to work with what we have. Even the Hebrew that you're speaking of is not the original, it's the Masoretic text. The Greek OT was translated from a proto Masoretic text. Believe me I argue regularly that translator bias has lead to misunderstandings of the English Bible. The issue of Hell is a good case in point. The English word "Hell" has the idea of a subterranean place where the dead are supposedly alive. This idea is not taught in Scripture, Gehnna, Hades, and Tartarus, are actual places and should not be translated "Hell" buy calling these places "Hell" the translators have imposed the English meaning of "Hell" on these place. Gehenna is the valley of the Son of Hinom an actual location outside of Jerusalem, Hades is the grave, and Tartarus, is reserved for angels. Olam and aion being translated forever or eternal is another case in point, neither word can me that. 

 

To your question about "Hell" (Gehenna) being temoprary, the answer is yes it is temporary. The Bible doesn't teach that the dead will be burned or tortured forever. That idea comes from a few passages where either Olam or Aion are Mistranslated as forever. Gehenna is the place of fire and as I pointed out Jeremiah said that it would one day be made holy to the Lord. It is in the land promised to Abraham, it's in the kingdom..

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

The Greek OT was translated from a much older Hebrew text than the one in you Bible. The Greek OT was translated about 250-300 BC.by 72 Jewish scholars. The Greek word "aion" is similar but not exactly the same a "olam." "Olam" carries the idea of time unseen, When the Scriptures says something is "Olam" it means to time unseen. If you look this from the Jewish perspective as traveling a road it make sense. As one travels a road they can only see to the next hill or to the next bend in the road. If you're interested I can give you a few links that explain this from a Jewish perspective.

 

But the fact is, is that it was translated in the first place. Translations in general cloud scripture, especially when finding answers in difficult passages, like hell.

 

The Greek word "aion" is similar but not exactly the same a "olam."

 

This is exactly what I mean.

It's not exactly the same because flawed men took the original text and translated scripture into their own language.

For example, certain words in the Hebrew dictionary do not exist in the Greek dictionaries..so they choose whatever word is similar.

 

I agree that translations can cloud the our understanding, however, we have to work with what we have. Even the Hebrew that you're speaking of is not the original, it's the Masoretic text. The Greek OT was translated from a proto Masoretic text. Believe me I argue regularly that translator bias has lead to misunderstandings of the English Bible. The issue of Hell is a good case in point. The English word "Hell" has the idea of a subterranean place where the dead are supposedly alive. This idea is not taught in Scripture, Gehnna, Hades, and Tartarus, are actual places and should not be translated "Hell" buy calling these places "Hell" the translators have imposed the English meaning of "Hell" on these place. Gehenna is the valley of the Son of Hinom an actual location outside of Jerusalem, Hades is the grave, and Tartarus, is reserved for angels. Olam and aion being translated forever or eternal is another case in point, neither word can me that. 

 

To your question about "Hell" (Gehenna) being temoprary, the answer is yes it is temporary. The Bible doesn't teach that the dead will be burned or tortured forever. That idea comes from a few passages where either Olam or Aion are Mistranslated as forever. Gehenna is the place of fire and as I pointed out Jeremiah said that it would one day be made holy to the Lord. It is in the land promised to Abraham, it's in the kingdom..

 

This translator bias that you speak of....   how much of the Bible, do you feel, is corrupted by such alleged bias?

[Butch5]

 

 

 

The Greek OT was translated from a much older Hebrew text than the one in you Bible. The Greek OT was translated about 250-300 BC.by 72 Jewish scholars. The Greek word "aion" is similar but not exactly the same a "olam." "Olam" carries the idea of time unseen, When the Scriptures says something is "Olam" it means to time unseen. If you look this from the Jewish perspective as traveling a road it make sense. As one travels a road they can only see to the next hill or to the next bend in the road. If you're interested I can give you a few links that explain this from a Jewish perspective.

 

But the fact is, is that it was translated in the first place. Translations in general cloud scripture, especially when finding answers in difficult passages, like hell.

 

The Greek word "aion" is similar but not exactly the same a "olam."

 

This is exactly what I mean.

It's not exactly the same because flawed men took the original text and translated scripture into their own language.

For example, certain words in the Hebrew dictionary do not exist in the Greek dictionaries..so they choose whatever word is similar.

 

I agree that translations can cloud the our understanding, however, we have to work with what we have. Even the Hebrew that you're speaking of is not the original, it's the Masoretic text. The Greek OT was translated from a proto Masoretic text. Believe me I argue regularly that translator bias has lead to misunderstandings of the English Bible. The issue of Hell is a good case in point. The English word "Hell" has the idea of a subterranean place where the dead are supposedly alive. This idea is not taught in Scripture, Gehnna, Hades, and Tartarus, are actual places and should not be translated "Hell" buy calling these places "Hell" the translators have imposed the English meaning of "Hell" on these place. Gehenna is the valley of the Son of Hinom an actual location outside of Jerusalem, Hades is the grave, and Tartarus, is reserved for angels. Olam and aion being translated forever or eternal is another case in point, neither word can me that. 

 

To your question about "Hell" (Gehenna) being temoprary, the answer is yes it is temporary. The Bible doesn't teach that the dead will be burned or tortured forever. That idea comes from a few passages where either Olam or Aion are Mistranslated as forever. Gehenna is the place of fire and as I pointed out Jeremiah said that it would one day be made holy to the Lord. It is in the land promised to Abraham, it's in the kingdom..

 

This translator bias that you speak of....   how much of the Bible, do you feel, is corrupted by such alleged bias?

 

Hi Shiloh,

 

It't hard to say how much translator bias affects the Scriptures, but we certainly can see it. This case with Olam and aion is a good example. Because translators see aionions life and believe that the believer will live forever, they translation aionios as eternal. The problem is they also translate things forever that end. The English word eternal means unending, something that ends cannot be eternal. We have the same problem with Olam, There are many instances in the OT where ordinances of the Mosaic law are said to be Olam and our English translators have translated them as forever. The problem is that both Jesus and Paul said that the Mosaic Law came to end. Again, something that ends is not eternal or forever. In the Greek OT Olam is usually translated with "aionion" which is claimed to mean forever, yet is used of things that end. The word cannot have to opposing meanings, I submit that the word Olam and aion cannot mean eternal even those many define it that way.

[Guest shiloh357]

Hi Shiloh,

 

It't hard to say how much translator bias affects the Scriptures, but we certainly can see it. This case with Olam and aion is a good example. Because translators see aionions life and believe that the believer will live forever, they translation aionios as eternal. The problem is they also translate things forever that end. The English word eternal means unending, something that ends cannot be eternal. We have the same problem with Olam, There are many instances in the OT where ordinances of the Mosaic law are said to be Olam and our English translators have translated them as forever. The problem is that both Jesus and Paul said that the Mosaic Law came to end. Again, something that ends is not eternal or forever. In the Greek OT Olam is usually translated with "aionion" which is claimed to mean forever, yet is used of things that end. The word cannot have to opposing meanings, I submit that the word Olam and aion cannot mean eternal even those many define it that way.

 

Hebrew is a very nuanced language and it doesn't come off very well in English.  English is far more limited and is not as precise as Hebrew.

 

So yes, the English translators do translate olam as "forever" with things that actually do have an end.   It is not because of a bias, though.  It is because of the limitations of the English language when it comes to how it translates Hebrew.

 

Context is the key to deciphering how the word olam is to be understood.   There are times when olam should be understood in a more limited sense and there are times when it should be understood to mean "forever" as we, English speakers intuitively understand that word.

[Butch5]

 

Hi Shiloh,

 

It't hard to say how much translator bias affects the Scriptures, but we certainly can see it. This case with Olam and aion is a good example. Because translators see aionions life and believe that the believer will live forever, they translation aionios as eternal. The problem is they also translate things forever that end. The English word eternal means unending, something that ends cannot be eternal. We have the same problem with Olam, There are many instances in the OT where ordinances of the Mosaic law are said to be Olam and our English translators have translated them as forever. The problem is that both Jesus and Paul said that the Mosaic Law came to end. Again, something that ends is not eternal or forever. In the Greek OT Olam is usually translated with "aionion" which is claimed to mean forever, yet is used of things that end. The word cannot have to opposing meanings, I submit that the word Olam and aion cannot mean eternal even those many define it that way.

 

Hebrew is a very nuanced language and it doesn't come off very well in English.  English is far more limited and is not as precise as Hebrew.

 

So yes, the English translators do translate olam as "forever" with things that actually do have an end.   It is not because of a bias, though.  It is because of the limitations of the English language when it comes to how it translates Hebrew.

 

Context is the key to deciphering how the word olam is to be understood.   There are times when olam should be understood in a more limited sense and there are times when it should be understood to mean "forever" as we, English speakers intuitively understand that word.

 

I agree context is key to understanding any word, however, context cannot always be used to understand a word. Suppose we had a word "xye" and that word had two definitions, yes and no. Now suppose I ask someone will you go to the store and they reply "xye". I have no idea if they will go or not. Likewise with aionios, if means eternal and not eternal and someone asks do you want aionios lifewhat do you answer? Are they asking do you want eternal life or not eternal life? This is where I see the problem with defining olam or aionios as eternal.

 

The way I define aion is an age. An age by definition is an undefined period of time. It could be 100 years, 1000 years, or it may never end. So, aionios could be used of a period of time that is eternal but yet not by definition mean eternal. I look at aionios as the flip side of the English word "a while". One may I'll be there in a while, this could be 10 or an hour. A while is just a term for a short period of time yet the duration is not set by the definition.