The word 'olam'

[Guest shiloh357]

He didn't say Hell, He said Gehenna. There's no reason to think it's a metaphor. The bodies will literally be in Gehenna. Isaiah tells us that in the kingdom those leaving the temple will see the corpses burning.

 

There is every reason to understand that Jesus used Gehenna as a metaphor for Hell.  He did it all of the time.  Matt. 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 11:23; 18:19; 23:15; 33  are examples of just such metaphorical use of Gehenna.

 

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. {from one new...: Heb. from new moon to his new moon, and from sabbath to his sabbath}

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

(Isa 66:22-1 KJV)

 

This is the place that Jesus said the wicked would be but take note to what is burning, it's carcases not spirits or souls or ghosts. It's flesh bodies that are burning.

 

 

Gehenna will exist fro eternity, it just won't always be burning.

 

 

 

No, Gehenna will not exist into eternity.  Gehenna is a geographical location that will not exist in the new heavens and new earth, as this earth will be destroyed.   Isa. 66:22-24  is referencing the millennial period not the eternal kingdom.

[Floatingaxe]

 

We know life with Jesus will be forever, and we know that hellfire is forever.

 

No, Jeremiah gave us details of where this hellfire will be. It's also not hellfire like the fire we experience when we burn our fingers on the stove. The fire God describes is spiritual and within.

 

 

Where? I know that God describes an unknown place of fire and brimstone that will never go out. It is not a spiritual place but a very real place. I think you have allowed yourself to be influenced by some very mixed up teaching.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

We know life with Jesus will be forever, and we know that hellfire is forever.

 

No, Jeremiah gave us details of where this hellfire will be. It's also not hellfire like the fire we experience when we burn our fingers on the stove. The fire God describes is spiritual and within.

 

Please provide Scriptural support for the claim in bold

[dscapp]

There is every reason to understand that Jesus used Gehenna as a metaphor for Hell.  He did it all of the time.  Matt. 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 11:23; 18:19; 23:15; 33  are examples of just such metaphorical use of Gehenna.

 

No, you have that backwards. Translators, not Jesus used the word hell as a metaphor to describe Gehenna which is a real place in Jerusalem. Hell is an English translation, Gehenna is (Greek γέεννα), Gehinnom is (Rabbinical Hebrew: גהנום/גהנם) and Yiddish is Gehinnam.

 

Please provide Scriptural support for the claim in bold

 

If the Holy Spirit dwells within us and the fire of the Holy Spirit dwells within us, then why would the wrath of God not dwell within nonbelievers. (Matt 3:11 "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.) Then I come across passages like these,

 

Ps 11:6 On the wicked he will rain fiery coals and burning sulfur; a scorching wind will be their lot.

Rev 14:10 they, too, will drink the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

 

Which has me thinking. Are these fiery coals and burning sulfur the same kind of intense heat we feel when we put our hand over a stove??

[Butch5]

 

There is every reason to understand that Jesus used Gehenna as a metaphor for Hell.  He did it all of the time.  Matt. 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 11:23; 18:19; 23:15; 33  are examples of just such metaphorical use of Gehenna.

 

 

 

 

Not at all. That's where the wicked go. There's no need to understand these as a metaphor.

 

Let me ask you, since you think this is a metaphor, where exactly do you believe his hell is that your speaking of?

 

No, Gehenna will not exist into eternity.  Gehenna is a geographical location that will not exist in the new heavens and new earth, as this earth will be destroyed.   Isa. 66:22-24  is referencing the millennial period not the eternal kingdom.

 

 

 

No, the earth isn't going to be destroyed, it's going to be renewed. Peter said that Heaven had to receive Jesus until the restoration of all things and Paul said,

 

NKJ  Romans 8:21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. (Rom 8:21 NKJ)

 

In the reference from Isaiah 66 he begins by saying behold I create new heavens and new earth so Gehenna is in existence after the restoration of all things.

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

There is every reason to understand that Jesus used Gehenna as a metaphor for Hell.  He did it all of the time.  Matt. 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 11:23; 18:19; 23:15; 33  are examples of just such metaphorical use of Gehenna.

 

 

 

 

Not at all. That's where the wicked go. There's no need to understand these as a metaphor.

 

The verses I provided refer to Hell and the Greek word is Gehenna, and yet the usage of Gehenna doesn't refer to the geographical location in the valley of Hinnom.   You need to pay more attention to how words are used because the usage is metaphorical in those verses.  I study and practice hermeneutics and I know what I am talking about.

 

Let me ask you, since you think this is a metaphor, where exactly do you believe his hell is that your speaking of?

 

It's actual location is irrelevant.  It is a place where the unrighteous dead go.  That is what's relevant.

 

No, the earth isn't going to be destroyed, it's going to be renewed. Peter said that Heaven had to receive Jesus until the restoration of all things and Paul said,

The word for "new" in the phrase New heaven and new earth" doesnn't refer to new in a chronological sense but refers to new in the sense of quality.  It is going to be new in the sense that they will be something that never existed before.  The old earth and the old universe are going to pass away completely.  And a new heavens and new earth will be put in its place. 

 

In the reference from Isaiah 66 he begins by saying behold I create new heavens and new earth so Gehenna is in existence after the restoration of all things.

 

 

Actually it says this:

 

"For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your offspring and your name remain. From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD. "And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

(Isa 66:22-24)

 

In that passage, he is not placing v. 24 in the time of the New Heaven and New Earth.  He is comparing Israel's perpetuity with the eternality of the New Heavens and New Earth.    The passage goes on to say that He will be worshiped by all flesh from new moon to new moon and from Sabbath to Sabbath indicating there were will still be a sun and moon, both of which are not present in the New Heaven and New Earth, which precludes this from describing any time period except for the Millennium.  

NKJ  Romans 8:21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. (Rom 8:21 NKJ)

 

Yes and that occurs BEFORE the New Heavens and New Earth.  During the millennial reign of Christ, we who trust in Christ will all have our new bodies, free from sin. And the earth will enjoy a period of peace in every way.  The exception will be at the end of that time period mentioned in Isaiah 66 when Satan is released and He and is followers are finally fully destroyed.

[Reformed Baptist]

Since 'olam' doesn't mean forever and is a Hebrew word, and 'everlasting' and 'eternal' are English translations,

then wouldn't hell be temporary since English translations can be wrong.

Also, why is it ok to use the word 'olam' when describing hell,

but it's ok to use the words 'everlasting' and 'eternal' when describing eternal life.

 

It is ok for me to use the word 'run' in regards to an action I have performed to catch the bus, but does not mean it is in appropriate for me to usethe word 'run' in relation to what my nose does when I have a cold.   

 

I don't mean to be critical but sadly with the proliferation of software tools and the internet people have access to tools that they do not understand how to us. A single word can never be understood in isolation, context is paramount, and not just in regards to grammar, but also in regards to syntax - how doe the words (voices, gender, tenses) around the word influence the semantic range of the term?

 

In posting the question as you have you made it impossible to answer adequately,  

[dscapp]

The verses I provided refer to Hell and the Greek word is Gehenna, and yet the usage of Gehenna doesn't refer to the geographical location in the valley of Hinnom.

 

That's a pretty big claim. Please provide proof.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

The verses I provided refer to Hell and the Greek word is Gehenna, and yet the usage of Gehenna doesn't refer to the geographical location in the valley of Hinnom.

 

That's a pretty big claim. Please provide proof.

 

Matt. 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 11:23; 18:19; 23:15; 33 

 

Not one of those verses refer to any geographical location of Gehenna.

[dscapp]

Matt. 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 11:23; 18:19; 23:15; 33 

 

Not one of those verses refer to any geographical location of Gehenna.

 

I'm trying to bring up the scripture, but you crammed them all together. Some of them don't come up. Can you make it easier to copy and paste.